Necessary GPS Features for Worlwide Touring?

top104

So, being completely ignorant on the workings on GPS units as of a few days ago, i've done a bit of research, and it seems a whole lot more complicated than i originally realised and there appears to be no one single product which satisfies all of my needs. So I have some (possibly slightly amateur) questions:

BASE MAPS:

what are the advantages of having a unit with a base map of the area you are cycling in? assuming I have a detailed map (eg a paper map) of my route, then I can program my route into any GPS unit even if it doesn't have a base map of that area? I guess a base map is somewhat handy if you get lost, and need the unit to give you a get out route, but considering most base maps only show big main roads, of the kind i would not want to cycle on anyway, do I really need a unit with a base map of the area i'm visiting?

ELECTRONIC MAPS

It is my understanding that electronic maps that you load onto the GPS, are effectively just replacing paper maps. i.e. they are not intelligent and the GPS unit does not recognise the difference between between roads and desert, it's just like a digital picture, which allows slightly easier route programming than reading off all the coordinates from a paper map. other than this convenience, what are the advantages of uploading electronic maps onto your GPS? It would of course be great if they meant I could leave all the paper maps at home, but i'm not sure that's too wise anyway, incase the GPS fails on me.

OR, are the electronic maps intelligent? i.e. if you put one on a GPS unit with no base map and then you ask the GPS unit to go from A to B, will it direct you via all the features (i.e. roads and trails) of that map? or will it just default draw a striaght line between A and B?

also, which units have the best selection of compatible maps? e.g. the satmap unit has great UK coverage (OS maps) but i don;t think has much in the way of worldwide maps that are compatible???? where as the Garmin units have slightly less desirable UK topo maps, yet have pretty much worlwide road maps.


NO BASE MAP OR ELECTRONIC MAPS

In theory I could get any old GPS unit, not have any base map for my area of interest, or have any electornic maps on the unit, and just program in the route from paper maps, right? and if i get lost the GPS can tell me where I am in terms of the paper map's reference?



sorry for seeming completely ignorant with regards to the workings of these things. I essentially want to know what features i need on a GPS for worldwide travelling with minimal need for carrying loads of paper maps/spending lots of effort navigating with paper maps. It seems (based on my non-extensive research) that the units which are best for UK off-roading are not the best for worlwide touring?

cheers.

GyatsoLa

I don't know enough to answer your specific questions, but there is an excellent article on GPS for bike touring here:

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=3 ... ontext=all

In summary, he concludes that for touring the specialist bike units are not the best, as they tend not to have enough storage for waypoints, etc., on a long tour.

andymiller

I think you'll find that the base maps are pretty extensive.

You could set up a route using a paper map - but it would be pretty time consuming. It's a lot easier to set up the route either using mapping software or on a site like mapmyride.com - these mainly rely on Google maps which are very good.

You could get a GPS that gives turn-by-turn directions but these are mainly set up for motorists so I don't know how useful they'd be on a bike. I've not heard of anyone using on on a bike.

sorry for seeming completely ignorant with regards to the workings of these things. I essentially want to know what features i need on a GPS for worldwide travelling with minimal need for carrying loads of paper maps/spending lots of effort navigating with paper maps. It seems (based on my non-extensive research) that the units which are best for UK off-roading are not the best for worlwide touring?

I think the day will come fairly soon when you could do away with paper maps but I don't think we're there yet - especially if you're planning on going beyond Western Europe, North America etc.

A good general purpose GPS (eg Garmin Legend HCx), will have a pretty decent base map plus the ability to load others onto a memory card (or cards), plus the ability to store a lot of 'waypoints' and 'Points of Interest' - which could be places you want to visit, campsites, banks etc).

andymiller

Duplicate post deleted.

top104

thanks for the reply.

these software maps which you can load onto the GPS units, do they enable the GPS unit to give you step by step instructions?

for example, say I got one of the basic Garmin etrex models, which only has a UK basemap. If I then loaded a european map onto it, would the unit then be able to give detailed instructions to cycle, say, from paris to venice? or are they literally just pictures and you still have to pre-program your route in every little detail by geographical coordinates (either manually or with a website or memory map or similar)?

thanks.

andymiller

top104 wrote:

thanks for the reply.

these software maps which you can load onto the GPS units, do they enable the GPS unit to give you step by step instructions?

for example, say I got one of the basic Garmin etrex models, which only has a UK basemap. If I then loaded a european map onto it, would the unit then be able to give detailed instructions to cycle, say, from paris to venice? or are they literally just pictures and you still have to pre-program your route in every little detail by geographical coordinates (either manually or with a website or memory map or similar)?

thanks.

Some (all?) of the Garmin 'On-the-road' models do 'turn-by-turn' instructions, but as I said I really don't know whether they are cyclist-friendly.

With the others the answer is yes you would have to pre-program a route. But bear in mind that there are lots of different ways you can use a GPS: you can use it as a basic positioning device to tell you where you are on a paper map; you could programme your route into it - though personally the idea of programming a route for a very long tour and then following it slavishly seems a bit - well not to my taste; you can put into it waypoints and points of interest with notes on places you want to visit, places to stay etc, and then busk it; you can use waypoints to rough out a route with the main junctions (a bit like an electronic route card).

You might find this article useful.

cycladelic

top 104

I too wondered about a GPS unit. I'm not convinced they will do what I want - guide me on a multi-country tour. And think the battery-life is one key problem, then there's the issue of downloading maps.

I'm now thinking of getting a Nokia phone that has a map function - my wife needs a new one and Xmas is coming up. I doubt I will use the GPS device, but it'll be good - and cheap - to have maps that I can browse. In all probability, I will still take paper maps with me.

I also plan to take an EeePC, as I find the Michelin site very useful. You can zoom in on areas and find small roads. Have a look... it will take a few seconds to load. You can ask for a 'bike route', which gives the distance in km - and even an ETA. Scroll to the right and use the tool to zoom in for greater detail.

http://www.viamichelin.com/viamichelin/ ... Norway/Bodø/Norway/Kjerringøy?

top104

ok thanks for the replies, it's starting to get a bit clearer in my mind.

so if an electronic map is stated as having "turn by turn" feature, then the map's details are actively used in the directing, where as other maps are just pictures which are geographically aligned to your position?

like you say andymiller, I don't want to program a huge route manually, and i wouldnt want to take the shortest/quickest route either (which is presumably the way the gps would take if left up to its own route decision). For touring I just want flexibility, a map on screen showing my current location, and perhaps the ability to program in some sections of a route in advance. Havind said that, if i'm on one side of a city and need to get to a hotel on the other side, it would be quite handy to have turn by turn directing automatically given just by typing in the hotel's postcode, ala motoring garmins.

so i suppose in summary I could get something simple like a garmin etrax, install a decent map of my route area so i can at least see where i am without the need for it to automatically work out routes for me, and then when I'm offroading in the UK i could program a route with memorymap of similar and in that instance it would give more precise directions?

andrew_s

Talking Garmin...
If you have an Etrex Legend HCx and City Navigator maps, then you can load maps for pretty much the whole of Europe onto a 2GB card and take them with you. The maps are cheaper bought on card than on DVD, but if the card gets corrupted then it's tough luck.

What you get is detailed street level maps for most countries, and detail for larger cities and inter-town roads in the ones they haven't got round to yet (eg Greece, a lot of Eastern Europe). Note that this is NOT OS-style mapping. It's more on the A-Z style, except just road centrelines.
It's got a whole load of "points of interest" - hotels (mostly chain ones), banks, suoermarkets, garages etc, and for some countries it's got searchable addresses (I've only tried UK and Belgium).

Routing is via a shortest route method with turn but turn directions on screen with beeps (eg turn left onto High Street in 57m).
Note that if you set it to bicycle, it avoids all major roads and can end up taking large detours. Having said that, in a town there are plenty of road to pick from, and I've found it works quite well to take me in and out of cities (Le Havre, Rouen).

If you want to use it flexibly, you can define routes by putting in intermediate points, and getting it to guide you between these intermediate points. With a bit of judgement, you should get it to go where you want using about 1 point per 10km, less in towns. Points take about a minute each to enter - position cursor, click, give it a name, save, repeat; then add the points to a route (an extra minute or two). You'll need a paper map (1:2-400,000?) for planning and selecting intermediate points.

Used off-road, you need to have a route that's been pre-programmed using MemoryMap, Google Maps or whatever and downloaded into the GPS. It's then a case of following the arrow.

top104

andrew_s wrote:

Talking Garmin...
If you have an Etrex Legend HCx and City Navigator maps, then you can load maps for pretty much the whole of Europe onto a 2GB card and take them with you. The maps are cheaper bought on card than on DVD, but if the card gets corrupted then it's tough luck.

What you get is detailed street level maps for most countries, and detail for larger cities and inter-town roads in the ones they haven't got round to yet (eg Greece, a lot of Eastern Europe). Note that this is NOT OS-style mapping. It's more on the A-Z style, except just road centrelines.
It's got a whole load of "points of interest" - hotels (mostly chain ones), banks, suoermarkets, garages etc, and for some countries it's got searchable addresses (I've only tried UK and Belgium).

Routing is via a shortest route method with turn but turn directions on screen with beeps (eg turn left onto High Street in 57m).
Note that if you set it to bicycle, it avoids all major roads and can end up taking large detours. Having said that, in a town there are plenty of road to pick from, and I've found it works quite well to take me in and out of cities (Le Havre, Rouen).

If you want to use it flexibly, you can define routes by putting in intermediate points, and getting it to guide you between these intermediate points. With a bit of judgement, you should get it to go where you want using about 1 point per 10km, less in towns. Points take about a minute each to enter - position cursor, click, give it a name, save, repeat; then add the points to a route (an extra minute or two). You'll need a paper map (1:2-400,000?) for planning and selecting intermediate points.

Used off-road, you need to have a route that's been pre-programmed using MemoryMap, Google Maps or whatever and downloaded into the GPS. It's then a case of following the arrow.

thanks very much.

just to check, will the unit only do all of this if it has a base map of the area? so if i wanted to cycle in africa, would i need a unit with worldwide basemap? or could i just stick a worldwide street map on any GPS and still get turn by turn instructions?

thanks.

andymiller

just to check, will the unit only do all of this if it has a base map of the area? so if i wanted to cycle in africa, would i need a unit with worldwide basemap? or could i just stick a worldwide street map on any GPS and still get turn by turn instructions

You will only get turn-by-turn instructions if the mapping supports 'autorouting '- and so does the GPS. Check the Garmin website to see what mapping is available.

SFAIK all newer mapping GPSes have some sort of world basemap. On my computer I have a copy of the US basemap v2 which has road mapping for Africa (maybe someone with a more up-to-date GPS than mine will be able to confirm the coverage of the Atlantic basemap). If you want more then you need to buy the Garmin WorldMap for £50 but even Garmin admit this is a case of better than nothing. SFAIK it isn't routable. See the links I posted above for information on international mapping.

CyclepathToHell

I have been in the same boat. I've done some research and was interested in the Garmin Oregon 400t :

http://www.outdoorgb.com/p/Garmin_Orego ... ountry=GBR


However, I came to the conclusion that it simply wasn't worth it; I can make do with the same maps on my barbag, open at the relevant page!!

top104

thanks

I feel like i'm being stupid, but i'm still struggling to understand the importance of the "basemaps".

for example, if i bought a UK version of the etrex vista HCx (which supports auto-routing and turn by turn instructions) which comes with an "atlantic" basemap covering only most of europe, africa and some of russia.... if i then put in an american road map sD card (which also supports turn by turn directions), would i be able to use all the features in america? or would i somehow be missing out on something by not having a USA basemap on my unit?

I can only appologise for being ignorant on these matters, but I do appreciate all your responses.

andymiller

top104 wrote:

thanks

I feel like i'm being stupid, but i'm still struggling to understand the importance of the "basemaps".

for example, if i bought a UK version of the etrex vista HCx (which supports auto-routing and turn by turn instructions) which comes with an "atlantic" basemap covering only most of europe, africa and some of russia.... if i then put in an american road map sD card (which also supports turn by turn directions), would i be able to use all the features in america? or would i somehow be missing out on something by not having a USA basemap on my unit?

I can only appologise for being ignorant on these matters, but I do appreciate all your responses.

I'd guess the US basemap is optimised for US customers - which might well be an advantage if you want to tour in the US. If you want a whole world solution, then it's probably to lay out the extra £50 on the Garmin WorldMap.

The basemap is simply that - you can load other maps on top. So the choice of whether to get a US GPS or a European GPS isn't irrevocable.

Bear in mind that there is a lot of very good open source mapping for the US - for example you can get good topographic mapping for most of the western US. Not sure it supports turn-by-turn but it'll tell you where the hills are.

thehungrycyclist

garmin edge 705 - the nuts!

http://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Edge-705-G ... B000VRHPS2

all in the edge series are great and I have had no problems

happy trails

Tom

Joatamon

As far as I can tell, it's a non-issue if you have a US basemap. I bought a US sourced Garmin and with City Navigator Europe NT loaded on it, the base maps are irrelevant. I don't think I've ever actually seen the basemaps in my gps.

I guess there would be a space benefit, if I had a European basemap installed I wouldn't need to use space on the sd card ... but does the basemap have the functionality of City Navigator ?

Likewise, using a European unit in the US ... just buy the US maps that suit your journey and upload them.

Some good screenshots here

http://www.aukadia.net/gps/lwg_5.htm

andymiller

That looks like a very useful site Joatamon.

top104

Joatamon wrote:

As far as I can tell, it's a non-issue if you have a US basemap. I bought a US sourced Garmin and with City Navigator Europe NT loaded on it, the base maps are irrelevant. I don't think I've ever actually seen the basemaps in my gps.

I guess there would be a space benefit, if I had a European basemap installed I wouldn't need to use space on the sd card ... but does the basemap have the functionality of City Navigator ?

Likewise, using a European unit in the US ... just buy the US maps that suit your journey and upload them.

Some good screenshots here

http://www.aukadia.net/gps/lwg_5.htm

thanks for your reply.

your comments on the basemaps is exactly what i thought - and no, the basemaps have nowhere near the detail of the city navigator maps.

so that's good to know. I can buy a unit from any regoin and as long as i buy the appropriate maps i can use it anywhere.

now if anyone knows of any detailed maps of eastern europe (i.e. better than those garmin offer on their website) then i'd love to know!

cheers.

andrew_s

The base maps are fairly useless for doing much more than tell a car driver which is the right motorway exit, and I wouldn't expect the garmin world map to be much better.

To do useful cycle navigation anywhere you will need the detailed maps for the area you are interested in. Thisgarmin page shows what's available. Outside that area, you may be able to find something that someone has converted into garmin format (approved stuff here), and it is possible to load up Openstreet map data to garmins if there is any for the area you are interested in.

El Gordo

CyclepathToHell wrote:

However, I came to the conclusion that it simply wasn't worth it; I can make do with the same maps on my barbag, open at the relevant page!!

I came to the same conclusion. It seems to me that GPS solves a problem which didn't exist in the first place whilst introducing a whole load of other problems like batteries, unit failures (happened to a mate doing LeJog, when still in Cornwall!), theft etc. not to mention the initial expense.

For me, cutting up a £5 road atlas seems as easy and reliable as it will ever get. What am I missing in my old school ways?

andymiller

For me, cutting up a £5 road atlas seems as easy and reliable as it will ever get. What am I missing in my old school ways?

Erm yes. A GPS will hold a lot more information with a lot less weight. Not to mention telling you where you are when you get lost.

Hell below zero !

andymiller wrote:

For me, cutting up a £5 road atlas seems as easy and reliable as it will ever get. What am I missing in my old school ways?

Erm yes. A GPS will hold a lot more information with a lot less weight. Not to mention telling you where you are when you get lost.

If you can read a map then you know where you are or can easily work it out.What do you think happened before GPS :?: :roll:

andymiller

If you can read a map then you know where you are or can easily work it out.What do you think happened before GPS

What is it about GPSes that brings out the traditionalist trolls getting all snooty and trying to pick an argument? No one is saying you have to have a GPS. If you're not interested in GPSes then don't open the thread. :roll: