Chain tugs for diagonal drop outs? / Tighten chain without?

stickman

If it possible to get them?

If not is there a method or knack to getting a chain tight without them?

Monty Dog

Use your hand as a wedge and push it between the rear wheel and the seattube - roll the bike forward to increase the pressure.

stickman

Thanks, i'll see if I can improve things by wedging.

I was thinking about greasing the nuts, maybe it would increase the chance of getting them tighter before any axle rotation occurs?

Tail end Charlie

I presume you are talking about a forward facing but backwards sloping drop out as found on older racing/ touring bikes, if so, the Tuggnuts tensioner which Surly makes will work. You will need to fit it at an angle (i.e. in line with the diagonal drop out) and you may need to file an indent into the frame so that the pressure is taken by the thing at the back rather then the screw itself. I have done this.
I suspect that any type of tensioner would work by doing this or a bit of other bodging in line with the bodger's code of "if it isn't broken, then bodge it till it is".

Tail end Charlie

I presume you are talking about a forward facing but backwards sloping drop out as found on older racing/ touring bikes, if so, the Tuggnuts tensioner which Surly makes will work. You will need to fit it at an angle (i.e. in line with the diagonal drop out) and you may need to file an indent into the frame so that the pressure is taken by the thing at the back rather then the screw itself. I have done this.
I suspect that any type of tensioner would work by doing this or a bit of other bodging in line with the bodger's code of "if it isn't broken, then bodge it till it is".

GarethPJ

Never had any problems at all getting the chain tension right with this setup. The only thing is if you're using a solid axle tighten the nut on the drive side first.

You shouldn't be pulling the chain tight, as such, the correct tension is somewhat less than tight. So it shouldn't take much force to get the tension right. So that means it shouldn't be difficult.

stickman

Charlie, that sounds good, thanks.

Gareth, I don't want it too tight, just not slack as it usually is. Sometimes I get it right straight away but usually i'm tightening the nuts this causes a few milimetres rotation on the axle which makes the chain too loose.

stickman

Charlie, do you have a picture of what you did?

Tail end Charlie

I don't know how to put pictures on the web, I am very backwards for things like that. What I described is very easy though, I bought the Tuggnuts tensioner, then fitted it and found that the tension was being taken on the screw rather than the plate at the back. Just thinking about it for a minute lead me to file an indent out of the frame (there is lots of metal on an older frame to be able to do this) and it works perfectly. The plate takes all the strain now which is how it should be.
I suggest you look at one of the tensioners in a shop and you'll see what I mean.

Tail end Charlie

PS I'll try and find out how to put pictures on the web and post one .......... but it may take some time !!

stickman

Great! Thanks for the explanation. I looked on a website for this, it seems to be for one side and you have to buy another for both dropouts.

For pictures a lot of people use Flickr which is easy to do.

Tail end Charlie

Surly say you only need one Tuggnuts, which is all I have. It may make it marginally easier to get the tension/ wheel alignment spot on with two, but in all honesty it's a piece of cake with just one.

stickman

Sounds good!

stickman

Charlie,
I added a picture of my dropout on my 1st link below, yours is the same? Would the amount I would have file away leave the frame strong enough to be safe?

Tail end Charlie

I cannot load up your pictures on my home computer (I am the only person in the world still on dial up!).
You only need a very small indent taking out of the drop out, I would estimate at no more than 2mm deep by 3mm wide, so I would imagine this will not compromise the strength of the drop out, but without seeing it I couldn't be sure.

ride_whenever

If you are on bolted axles, you can walk the wheel back.

Sheldon brown has this on his webby, in summary:

Tighten one side
Push wheel to move the axle further back on the other side
tighten opposing side
loosen first side
push wheel to the side and repeat until the wheel is where you want it.

stickman

Ride,
Thanks, great, i'll give it a try, see if I can get it to work.

Charlie,

If you have a cameraphone with picture messaging you can send them to your flickr photostream. My dropout picture is on the first of the links which are below, at the bottom of all my messages on here.