Black ice/oily road surface, no grip, face in the road

sonicred007

Ouch

Coming home last night and turned a lefthand corner about 2 miles from home. The front wheel went away from me, the bike then went underneath me and the next thing I knew was squashing my face into the tarmac. Not wishing to start a helmet of not debate, but again it hit the road before I did and marginalised my injuries to just my nose.

Blood everywhere from the bridge of my nose and two good samaritans - a lad and a girl who came to my aid. the lad even walked me to the - thankfully - nearby Homerton Hospital

Three stitches later I'm getting some r'n'r

Never experienced anything near to it in my 3 years of commuting by bike - riding a Langster with road tyres on it... forgot the brand but they're red and black

Would any tyre have stopped this happening? Or was this just a freak incident that I should wait for the scabs to go and get back on my bike asap

Stuart

esamenoi

I don't know about tire advice really. But on my bike I'm using some pretty beasty (imo) off-road tires which an almost similar thing happened to me but it was with a drain cover in the wet. Was this just tarmac? And to be honest you cant expect road tires to give all that much grip in the wet...

linsen

similar turning incidenet thing happened with Mr Linsen 18 months ago - he broke his hip in two places :shock:
I'm inclined to think road tyres are more grippy in the wet, but forgive me if I'm wrong.
He was back on the bike in 10 weeks, absolutely fine now but takes corners a little slower - no bad thing.
In any case get back on asap, and don't pick the scabs

sonicred007

Also would I have got off lighter had I not been clipped into my pedals... can't work this bit out

It was just the road - turned that corner hundreds of times

It was London last night - so anyone going west end to the north east would know it was dew at best, but cold too. Impossible to judge

Must admit I've had some scary slips on grids and the like during normal wet condition

alfablue

road tyres wont grip much in the wet, but they will grip more than an off road tyre.

Sorry about the accident Sonic - those front wheel skids are almost always irretrievable. The road could well have been slippier because of diesel or ice, I have come off in a similar fashion on diesel on a roundabout.

esamenoi

Shows how much i know about tires and yeh I too had a few minor slips but i really wasnt going very quickly... so was able to save my self except once but that wasnt too bad just a couple bruises and a little shaken. I am very wary of drains and the like as that is what I often have a problem with.

But if its anything like horses get back on ASAP...
(I used to ride them and one lesson same sodding horse.. okay pony at that time threw me off against a wall 3 times...)

I like bad weather riding but am often alot more careful..

sonicred007

alfablue wrote:

road tyres wont grip much in the wet, but they will grip more than an off road tyre.

Sorry about the accident Sonic - those front wheel skids are almost always irretrievable. The road could well have been slippier because of diesel or ice, I have come off in a similar fashion on diesel on a roundabout.

re-assuring(ish)... I just thank my stars that a car wasn't tailing me round the bend too

How were getting back on the bike?

alfablue

fortunately my off was very low speed, just a bruised knee and straight back on, contrasts with my off when i went over the bars and broke my pelvis (tree route on cycle path) - it took me 6 months to heal and 3 months before I went near a bike after that, but now I don't have any irrational fears, just make sure I keep both hands on the bars whenever possible!

roger_merriman

alfablue wrote:

road tyres wont grip much in the wet, but they will grip more than an off road tyre.

Sorry about the accident Sonic - those front wheel skids are almost always irretrievable. The road could well have been slippier because of diesel or ice, I have come off in a similar fashion on diesel on a roundabout.

diesel is lethal it's a known motorbike killer, on road yup you want the biggest contact patch in the wet, thus like for like slick will be better, this said mtb tires tend to be over twice the size of road tires, and makes a fair difference on road, and over the manhole covers etc.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Black & red. Vredstein? Not great in the wet.

Tyre choice probably wasn't the cause though. The chances that had you replicated precisely what you did on another tyre and stayed up are slim (IMO).

You've got four possible causes.
1. Ice.
2. Oil
3. Metalwork
4. Speed.

There's a corner on my ride home that I take every working day - 250 times a year for over four years. On all bar one occasion I've taken it with no problem. On one occasion I went down. Front wheel slid away; no warning.

I asked on another forum about it. I got the usual metalworks/diesel/etc responses (it was an autumn evening, a but greasy with the dew coming down). But the bottom line (which I think was my explanation) is that Ye cannae defy the laws of physics Cap'n!

You pull into a corner and there will be a speed at which, depending on your angle, you'll simply lose traction. Now, if you roll into a corner at your normal speed, then tighten the line by turning in, and suddenly you've gone from abiding by to defying the laws of physics.

Maybe you hit some ice. Maybe some diesel. Maybe too fast. You'll probably never know. But I guarantee you'll take that corner more gently for a while!

prj45

Hard luck sonic.

I was going through Hyde Park the other morning and a lady was walking in the cycle lane, I went to go round her, saw a puddle and thought, "oh hell, I'll just go through it", then as I got closer I realised "that's no puddle"...

I didn't come off but the bike was a good way toward going over before I hit the grippy stuff and righted myself; that woke me up with a nice shot of adrenaline, better than a coffee any day.

Very confusing because althogh it was frosty on the roads around the park the ice had melted, so it was just hyde park that still hadn't thawed out.

sonicred007

I think it was a combination of winter temp changes and dampness plus deisel - there are car washing, car fixers and it's commuter short cut for the A12 so it has heavy traffic

I guess physics is impossible to correct - I'll go with that philosophical consolation prize

I think my eyes about to blacken

And having paid nearly £50 for a photo package at my MA graduation next week I'll have a rather formal record of how bad I looked in the winter of 2008

Thanks all for the kind words

il_principe

Diesel is a right sod, a patch had me off at the Etape this year, along with several other riders. Heal up soon eh.

Excellent article that debunks some tire myths here (RIP Sheldon):

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#tread

Jen J

jashburnham wrote:

Excellent article that debunks some tire myths here (RIP Sheldon):

What happened?

Belv

You have my sympathy, i came off twice on the way into work this morning. Sore wrist, hip, elbow and knees.

JGS

esamenoi wrote:

But if its anything like horses get back on ASAP...
(I used to ride them and one lesson same sodding horse.. okay pony at that time threw me off against a wall 3 times...)

That's why I stick to bikes, I'd have put that pony in the glue factory after the second jolt.

I've found myself sliding about a bit when hitting manhole covers, even the tiny ones if I am pushing hard enough. Generally in bad weather I don't try and push the limits of cornering at all and just try and make it up on the straights. Glad to hear that you got away reasonably lightly though, if you had slid off in front of a car or bus it wouldn't have mattered about the helmet at all!

il_principe

Jen J wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

Excellent article that debunks some tire myths here (RIP Sheldon):

What happened?

He died of a heart attack back in Feb.

Great man.

boybiker

Nasty, I use Vredstein FortezzaTri-comp and they are pretty grippy in all weathers, my current set are 2500 miles old and are still holding up well.

lost_in_thought

sonicred007 wrote:

I think it was a combination of winter temp changes and dampness plus deisel - there are car washing, car fixers and it's commuter short cut for the A12 so it has heavy traffic

I guess physics is impossible to correct - I'll go with that philosophical consolation prize

I think my eyes about to blacken

And having paid nearly £50 for a photo package at my MA graduation next week I'll have a rather formal record of how bad I looked in the winter of 2008

Thanks all for the kind words

Sorry to hear about your injury, sounds like it hurt! I have to say I avoid metalwork like the plague as soon as it's wet out, slippery as hell. I've had a few interesting slidey moments on manhole covers in the past.

Ice the eye! Also, witch hazel apparently helps bring out bruises - and makes them go away faster in turn - but you need to time it right!

sonicred007

jashburnham wrote:

Diesel is a right sod, a patch had me off at the Etape this year, along with several other riders. Heal up soon eh.

Excellent article that debunks some tire myths here (RIP Sheldon):

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#tread

I thought that was the case - i guess i just need to be more lucky... once in three years is hardly a reason to be paranoid... is it?

sonicred007

lost_in_thought wrote:

sonicred007 wrote:

I think it was a combination of winter temp changes and dampness plus deisel - there are car washing, car fixers and it's commuter short cut for the A12 so it has heavy traffic

I guess physics is impossible to correct - I'll go with that philosophical consolation prize

I think my eyes about to blacken

And having paid nearly £50 for a photo package at my MA graduation next week I'll have a rather formal record of how bad I looked in the winter of 2008

Thanks all for the kind words

Sorry to hear about your injury, sounds like it hurt! I have to say I avoid metalwork like the plague as soon as it's wet out, slippery as hell. I've had a few interesting slidey moments on manhole covers in the past.

Ice the eye! Also, witch hazel apparently helps bring out bruises - and makes them go away faster in turn - but you need to time it right!

just taken two arnica tablets and the doctor recommended rhubarb juice for the scars

trying to ice but now my face is swelling undfer the eyes

Gonna look great for xmas

Littigator

jashburnham wrote:

Diesel is a right sod, a patch had me off at the Etape this year, along with several other riders. Heal up soon eh.

Excellent article that debunks some tire myths here (RIP Sheldon):

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html#tread

The first I ever knew of that chap and his website was the announcement that he had died. Since then I've read huge sections of the site and re-read some parts many times. The man was a complete legend and is respected for his knowledge by ALL types of cyclists.

ps Sonicred007, check your tyres for greasy residue, if it was diesel there may still be some lingering on them which will cause issues when you do get back on yer steel pony!

sonicred007

Littigator wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

ps Sonicred007, check your tyres for greasy residue, if it was diesel there may still be some lingering on them which will cause issues when you do get back on yer steel pony!

Will do

Cheers

jedster

Sonic,

commiserations! I had a similar fall earlier this year. I made a very gentle course correction and my forks just rotated in the head set before the tyre gripped again perpendicular to my dorection of travel. At about 22mph. BANG!

Like you I came down hard on my helmet and sunglasses. Cracked my helmet but got away with butterfly stitches.

In my case it was diesel and a slightly damp road - I walked back up the road and found an oil patch.

I don't think there is anything you can do about it.

J

wgwarburton

Hi,
I had a similar thing on Princes St, Edinburgh last year- one moment I was pulling away from the lights as per normal, the next the front wheel was going sideways and I was going down... Nasty bruises on hips & forearm but no bike damage. Fortunately I wasn't wearing a helmet, so it didn't get dinged up.
Diesel spills are nasty things for two-wheelers...

Cheers,
W.

itboffin

WGWarburton wrote:

Hi,
I had a similar thing on Princes St, Edinburgh last year- one moment I was pulling away from the lights as per normal, the next the front wheel was going sideways and I was going down... Nasty bruises on hips & forearm but no bike damage. Fortunately I wasn't wearing a helmet, so it didn't get dinged up.
Diesel spills are nasty things for two-wheelers...

Cheers,
W.

sonicred007

I can't offer any conclusive proof - but my wife got arnica tablets for me to help with reducing the bruising and never got anything near to black eyes... surely some connection

I'm looking a little prettier only a week later

woodyonthebeach

Ice defeated me this morning. Had to get the train but the walk from the stating was just as bad.

Couldnt get any power down no matter how gentle I was when I starting off. Tried a different bit of the road got a little further down and stacked it.

F*** This!!!!!!!!!!!! walked home and changed and became and mindless commuter on the train

sonicred007

woodyonthebeach wrote:

Ice defeated me this morning. Had to get the train but the walk from the stating was just as bad.

Couldnt get any power down no matter how gentle I was when I starting off. Tried a different bit of the road got a little further down and stacked it.

F*** This!!!!!!!!!!!! walked home and changed and became and mindless commuter on the train

Like the Lance quote. Need to pass to my wife who would rather me cycle wrapped up in a duvet to avoid bumps and bruises

Feltup

woodyonthebeach wrote:

Ice defeated me this morning. Had to get the train but the walk from the stating was just as bad.

Couldnt get any power down no matter how gentle I was when I starting off. Tried a different bit of the road got a little further down and stacked it.

F*** This!!!!!!!!!!!! walked home and changed and became and mindless commuter on the train

Hmmm A4 seemed OK bit of wheel spin near Winter Hill and the hairpin was taken at the slowest pace I have ever done it, got to the car park and it was covered in ice. I think I have been lucky, dreading the ride home now.

woodyonthebeach

sonicred007 wrote:

woodyonthebeach wrote:

Ice defeated me this morning. Had to get the train but the walk from the stating was just as bad.

Couldnt get any power down no matter how gentle I was when I starting off. Tried a different bit of the road got a little further down and stacked it.

F*** This!!!!!!!!!!!! walked home and changed and became and mindless commuter on the train

Like the Lance quote. Need to pass to my wife who would rather me cycle wrapped up in a duvet to avoid bumps and bruises

I tried this morning. It was a bastard. Needed to get into work in one piece as I have got to get lots sorted out and I wanted to go to the pub tonight