Cat 4 race

Anonymous

I aim to do my first BC race on 1st March 09, it is the Clayton Velo spring classic and is, IIRC 56miles.
What sort of a time would a bottom cat group take to do this?
Just seeing if I will be a million miles off or whether to continue with my plan.

guv001

I personally think you need to do it whatever. THat way you will know for sure if you can do it or not. They are still quick at Cat 4 I'd say 24-26 mph.

Kléber

Average speed and time is meaningless. A road race is unlike timetrialling, there is no constant pace. One minute you can be hanging for life on someone's wheel at 35mph, the next people are having a chat in the bunch. So if the average speed is 24mph, you need to be able to cope with the spikes in the speed otherwise that is where you will be dropped but remember that being inside a bunch saves a lot of energy.

So go for it 8)

dennisn

Kléber wrote:

Average speed and time is meaningless. A road race is unlike timetrialling, there is no constant pace. One minute you can be hanging for life on someone's wheel at 35mph, the next people are having a chat in the bunch. So if the average speed is 24mph, you need to be able to cope with the spikes in the speed otherwise that is where you will be dropped but remember that being inside a bunch saves a lot of energy.

So go for it 8)

Couldn't agree more. Couple of hints. Keep up as best you can because if you get
popped out the back and lose contact with the group you , more than likely, won't get back "ON". Expect to have to hammer pretty hard after most corners to keep up. This seems to be where all the leaders tend to accelerate and try to drop a few people.
Good luck - stay alert - know who is around you and where they are - don't stare at the wheel in front of you.

Dennis Noward

cougie

Interval sessions will be your friend !

craigenty

This is my club's road race. I've never ridden it because I usually have to marshall it.
Here's last years write up from the BC website. The 4th's did really well.
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web/si ... elo_rr.asp

craigenty

I forgot to add there will be more info on here soon - http://www.claytonvelo.co.uk/intro.html

Anonymous

Cheers for that!
Hmmm, I was hoping the 4th cats would be mostly beginners like me!

cougie

Some will.

And some will be 1st Cats after a year or two off.

phil s

Dude, it's a handicap so the 4th cats will be either beginners or novice racers and set off first. Call me cynical, but I don't for a moment believe that your 4th cat group will work coherently to share the pace together when it is set off - if it does, great. If it doesn't then be prepared to jump on board the faster group to catch you next.
Remember - road racing is about economy. Learn to be economic with your efforts while still carrying your own speed smoothly. What I mean by this is once your up to race pace, look to shelter in the wheels, but not too far back. Look to go smoothly through corners rather than braking hard, losing speed and then having to stand up and stomp on the pedals to close gaps. Talking of gaps - you will feel f*cked at certain points and be tempted to let a small gap open... DON'T! The extra mental and physical effort of not letting go at this point will make a huge difference. Once you do let a gap open up at a critical point you will either use bags and bags of energy to close it once more, or you will lose touch. And one final word of advice - I've mentioned carrying your own speed smoothly and economically but you must also work on some short, very sharp intervals to prepare for the bursts in speed that you can't control, i.e. when some other f*cker puts the hammer down and everyone has to respond.
Good luck, be brave every time you race, and above all enjoy the experience.

Monty Dog

Time will be pretty well irrelevant, but you need to be thinking about 2 hours at near your maximum so make sure you train accordingly. The race will probably start fast, have a lull in the middle and then finish at a furious pace - for your first race, finishing is the main objective. Long steady rides through to January will build an endurance base which you will then need to supplement with speed and interval work - particularly from 6-8 weeks out, easing up the last 2 weeks. Ride with the fastest group you can hang on to to learn how to read the bunch, take shelter and predict the moves - that said, training can never replicate the feeling and intensity of racing.

sportbilly1976

Hi,

I would be very interested in looking at the details for this race, where would I start to sign up for it?

As a complete novice all advice greatfully accepted...

Chip \'oyler

craigenty wrote:

This is my club's road race. I've never ridden it because I usually have to marshall it.
Here's last years write up from the BC website. The 4th's did really well.
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web/si ... elo_rr.asp

Looks like the current World Brompton Champion was riding well that day

sportbilly1976

Having done a bit of very quick research during lunch I can find a list of races reasonably local to me during 2009...

http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web/si ... sultspp=20

Which ones (as a newbie) would I be eligible to enter, and which category would I come under for the National / Regional classifications?

Just had a quick look and it would seem I could (as a newbie/cat 4 rider) enter all regional races and Nat C ones - then hope to get enought points in 2009 to enter Nat B cats in 2010..?? :?

I can see my gf becoming a bit annoyed if they are every sunday... :oops:

Bronzie

sportbilly1976 wrote:

Which ones (as a newbie) would I be eligible to enter, and which category would I come under for the National / Regional classifications?

You'll be a 4th Cat and you'll be able to enter any race open to 4th Cats ie 4th only (AKA "Go Race" Category race), 3/4s (Regional B race) or 2/3/4s (Regional A race).

cougie wrote:

And some will be 1st Cats after a year or two off.

The lowest category that a 1st cat can drop to is 3rd cat isn't it?

Anonymous

There are no 'Go Race' events in the north west next year

Tom Butcher

Bronzie wrote:

cougie wrote:

And some will be 1st Cats after a year or two off.

The lowest category that a 1st cat can drop to is 3rd cat isn't it?

I think so - they did used to say if you were a Vet you could drop to 4th again but I've a feeling that's not the case now - certainly in normal circumstances once you make 3rd you can't go back to 4th.

Bronzie

NapoleonD wrote:

There are no 'Go Race' events in the north west next year

It's bizarre isn't it that BC introduced the 4th category 10 years or so back, yet the availability of races open only to that category are few and far between.

If it's any consolation, there's not a huge difference in the general quality of field between a 4th only and 3/4 race. There will however be a number of 3rd cats in the race who are probably a cut above the rest (2nd cats in waiting) and these are the guys that will be in the mix at the finish.

eh

there's not a huge difference in the general quality of field between a 4th only and 3/4 race.

There may not be in fitness but there certainly is in bike handling skills, I'd never ride a 4ths only race too bloody dangerous. Heck most E/1/2s think 3/4 races are iffy (with some justification) but 4ths are scary.

So if you are a novice please, please over the winter get in a load of rides in big groups and make sure you can follow wheels, eat, drink etc without being dangerous. Yes that means getting outside and off your turbo trainer.

Anonymous

I enjoy group riding and seem to do ok regarding handling skills.
I'm not joining in the group ride tonight though!

leguape

eh wrote:

there's not a huge difference in the general quality of field between a 4th only and 3/4 race.

There may not be in fitness but there certainly is in bike handling skills, I'd never ride a 4ths only race too bloody dangerous. Heck most E/1/2s think 3/4 races are iffy (with some justification) but 4ths are scary.

So if you are a novice please, please over the winter get in a load of rides in big groups and make sure you can follow wheels, eat, drink etc without being dangerous. Yes that means getting outside and off your turbo trainer.

Oh puuuhhleeeese! Not this "4th cat races are really dangerous" nonsense again. There were more crashes and offs in any one of the Grand Tours individually than I witnessed in a whole season of 4th cat racing in London and the South East. Actually there were more offs in your average one-day classic.

I've seen a heck of a lot of people go up to 3rd cat on brute strength and very little bike handling skills whatsoever. There's "dangerous" riders at every level, just ask other pros what they thought of Abdou or Graham Brown's sprinting.

oldwelshman

I have to agree with Leguape. I also heard vets racers are safer but having ridden several do not agree with that veiw.
OK you may have some inexperienced racing cyclists in the 4ths but more worryingly is the number of muppets riding higher category races, people with poor regrd for road safety and poor handling skills.
In many races you get the riders over the white lines riding up to gain places in the bunch , then when a car approaches on other side of road they try to squeeze back into bunch!! In my view these riders should have their license revoked for a month.
As for cornerring, I am amazed how many riders try to take the inside line on a sharp bend, then have to brake like mad to try to get round then end up cutting off all the riders who take the racing line round, then the inside rider is now going slow so has to accelerate to catch the guys infront again!!
Since returning to racing last year, I saw more crashes in one year than I ever saw when riding previously, and most of these were in 1,2,3 races.

genki

leguape wrote:

Oh puuuhhleeeese! Not this "4th cat races are really dangerous" nonsense again. There were more crashes and offs in any one of the Grand Tours individually than I witnessed in a whole season of 4th cat racing in London and the South East. Actually there were more offs in your average one-day classic.

I wish what you claim is true.

In the 2 years since I started riding I've done 15 road-races.
4 4th Cat - 2 crashes
2 3/4 Cat - 0 crashes
1 3rd Cat - 0 crashes
8 E/1/2/3/4 Handicap - 0 crashes

Both crashes I had were caused by an idiot in front of me unable to cycle in a group causing a pile-up. Both were in 4th Cat races. Neither crash was a laughing matter. In one my bike was damaged, and in the other I ended up having to have surgery to rebuild my shoulder. I have yet to see a crash in any of the non-4th Cat races I've done.

My advice is learn to ride in a group, if you ride in a 4th Cat race be very careful, and if possible try to get the points needed for promotion to 3rd Cat from the handicap races.

Tom Butcher

When I was a 4th I didn't think the races were that much worse in terms of crashes - a little bit maybe but nothing too bad. If you find them dangerous then it's not hard to sit near the front or else sit at the back until you are ready to get to the front - the advantage of a 4ths race is it's a lot easier to do that in them than in a 2/3/4 or even a 3/4.

Anonymous

Think I'm going to do some of the CDNW Crits at Preston cycling circuit next year. Should be fun

russmclean

Hi Folks

Entries on a completed Britsh Cycling entry form and a £12 Cheque (what value compared to a sportive and you WILL be racing world class riders / novices will have 9mins Head start)

Russ McLean
C/O 35 Friars Garth
Abbeytown
Wigton
Cumbria
CA7 9QE

Any Novices can find details on the below link of how to join a club and come and race!!!
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web/si ... stions.asp

Anonymous

Which one do you organise Russ?

Is that the Clayton Velo one?

russmclean

Yep I've taken over organising The Clayton Velo Spring Classic,
No chance i'm racing in march with my love of Jan Ullrichs winter diet but without the recreational drugs or blood doping!!!!!

Subluxator

I agree with most of what has been said. You can't compare the average race speed of a pack of riders against what you can ride on your own..it will be significantly faster. You will find your self at times riding 25 mph and it will feel like 15 mph on your own. Then there are times of sheer agony..just remember that everyone is hurting (unless your really unfit, in which case you might be the only one!). As far as the comment of just latching on to the next fastest group that passes yours...I don't know where you guys are from but here in california (or any race run under usa cycling i'm assuming) that would get you a DQ. Just sign up and take your beating, then all your questions will be answered. enjoy.

notanotherhill

Some very good advice given in this thread.

Last season i was in the same boat as you. Looking at not just my first road race, but first TT, first season with a club, first time riding in a group. Now i cant vouch for what the UK races at Cat 4 are, but i wouldnt imagine that they are too different from Cat 3 races in Ireland (we dont operate a 4 cat system).

So for what its worth here goes. The races are fast. Dont fall into the trap of thinking its a sunday outing just because its 4th cat. If at all possible ride the course prior to the race....its a very big shock to realise 40km into a race that the climbing starts in earnest....you'll just have to take me word on that one!!

Take it for what it is....your first race. I agree with whoever said that your priority should just be to finish. If you get around the course the times are irrelevant, even if you cross the line last, consider it a good training ride.

Finally, enjoy it. Use it as a learning experience. For the most part i suffered all season long last year, but learned so much it was incredible. I cant explain to you how much im looking forward to this season....will i suffer again...of course......will i continue learning...definatley....will my results be any better than last season...only time will tell.....will i enjoy it...well if its anything like last year, then at least thats guaranteed

Best of luck with it...let us know how you get on

Kléber

On crashes, I think you see some big risk taking in the Tour de France, riders crowd to be first into a corner and those who can't stand the heat can get to the back of the bunch. In a local 4th cat race, some just don't know what they are doing and can bring down others with relative ease.