Accident in the middle of the street

Voytek

I had an accident. I was going in the middle of the street (london road sw16), solid traffic so I went on the right hand side of the cars. There was guy trying to join traffic on my left hand side and a car that let him in from opposite to myself direction. I was going ahead thinking fella joining in is not going anywhere but he did without looking and I ended up doing a superman over his bonnet. Now I got all his details and a witness who was actually the same guy who was letting my abductor in. I need advice...according to the witness I was riding on the right side of the street which from my point of view was when I was trying to avoid the collision. Obviously I'm going to try to claim compensation for broken wheel and other damages (fortunately nothing really happened to me) and I was thinking if any of you fellow cyclists was in similar situation and if you could give me advice what to do now and if it's even worth trying to make a claim.

ChrisLS

...see a solicitor... or...you in the CTC? If not join...their legal cover is excellent...

http://www.ctc.org.uk/desktopdefault.aspx?tabid=4088are

Headhuunter

Yeah that's always something that gets me. So far I have never actually hit another car in this situation but I've come close.

Often it's a bus or high sided van or something that stops to let another car through the gridlocked traffic - either to turn left or from a turn off to go right, so passing across both lanes. In both situations, I frequently find that motorists are more concerned about getting across the traffic quickly than watching for 2 wheeled traffic still moving and are often looking the other way, moving quite swiftly.

As I said, so far I have not managed to hit or be hit, but yuo really have to be careful, they must rank well up there as one of the most dangerous situations in the morning commute, that and pedestrians who step off the pavement without looking that is...

gtvlusso

Glad you are okay!

Ultimately said driver should not have let traffic into and you are legit to overtake on the right....

I had a twat do this the other night - decided to let someone trun right across the front of him, but did not realise I was on the inside at speed - interesting braking moment. And for some reason, both drivers did not think it was their fault.....As far as I am concerned the traffic in lane is still moving and has right of way - whatever happens.

But I ain't a lawyer and lots of people on here are - I am sure they will give you good advice.

Headhuunter

Exactly! you have the right to filter through traffic! Just because one driver decides to let another through, does not mean that you have to stop for them as well. Of course it's the nice thing to do, however surely the driver still has responsibility to watch for traffic whilst passing across lanes.

This morning a driver let another through as described but the driver passing through my lane beeped his horn to let me know he was coming through, still it would have been nice if he had just let me, still moving, carry on without having to brake rather than just blazing through without stopping...

sps137

I'm afraid that i'm going to go against the flow here and say that I would expect you to be held at least partially liable. And i say this without any criticism of your riding because we all pass either side of stationary traffic. From a crossing drivers point of view the primary position vehicle had stopped to allow him through, assuming that you weren't in a cycle lane or ona seperate lane (dual carriageway) you are over/undertaking a stationary vehicle and so it is your responsibility to ensure the way ahead is clear. the fact that as cyclists we can pass either side of slower traffic easily does not give us right of way However as with others I'm no solicitor, just a personal opinion.

cougie

I think I'm gonna echo that a bit. You did say that you saw the guy being let in - so that was a possible warning ? Its always best to play safe in these situations.

Anyway - you need to take pics of all teh damage - to you and the bike, and get a good solicitor. Try Alyson France at Bikeline - she's experienced with bike claims and has done some good work for my pals and family.

Headhuunter

sps137 wrote:

I'm afraid that i'm going to go against the flow here and say that I would expect you to be held at least partially liable. And i say this without any criticism of your riding because we all pass either side of stationary traffic. From a crossing drivers point of view the primary position vehicle had stopped to allow him through, assuming that you weren't in a cycle lane or ona seperate lane (dual carriageway) you are over/undertaking a stationary vehicle and so it is your responsibility to ensure the way ahead is clear. the fact that as cyclists we can pass either side of slower traffic easily does not give us right of way However as with others I'm no solicitor, just a personal opinion.

I see your point of view, but surely if you're on your side of the road, travelling in the intended traffic direction, you have priority over someone crossing? You are still part of the flowing, wheeled traffic. Of course for your own safety you need to watch out, but equally the motorist does not have the right to blast on through without checking for other road users

Headhuunter

cougie wrote:

I think I'm gonna echo that a bit. You did say that you saw the guy being let in - so that was a possible warning ? Its always best to play safe in these situations.

Anyway - you need to take pics of all teh damage - to you and the bike, and get a good solicitor. Try Alyson France at Bikeline - she's experienced with bike claims and has done some good work for my pals and family.

I think that's the problem, most of the time you can't tell if someone has stopped to let someone through, the 1st you know is when someone cuts across in front of you. This is especially the case when high sided vans, lorries, buses etc are involved

cee

Headhuunter wrote:

I see your point of view, but surely if you're on your side of the road, travelling in the intended traffic direction, you have priority over someone crossing? You are still part of the flowing, wheeled traffic. Of course for your own safety you need to watch out, but equally the motorist does not have the right to blast on through without checking for other road users

I would also add that in traffic like that, whilst we are entitled to overtake stationary traffic etc, you MUST adjust your speed accordingly. If you were still going fast enough to superman over his bonnet, then he could well argue that you were cycling dangerously fast in busy traffic and at least partially caused the accident by doing so. Had you not been going fast enough to fly over the bonnet, you could easily have stopped.

I feel for you though....the ease with which we can get through a busy town centre is probably at least one of the reasons why we all commute to work on a bike.

Chris_Who

First, you have my sympathies, taking a tumbles is never good but from your description I think you must accept some liability

Follow the link below and look at overtaking car queues for a legal perspective
http://www.rjw.co.uk/ctc/q-a-from-cycle-magazine

Unfortunately, though vehicles should check for filtering traffic, they invariably don't. This makes it a dangerous (though not illegal of course) practice.

Courts (and unless you have CTC help an insurance company can be very good at the legal system) might consider that there was contributory negligence.

Basically, if you were cautiously picking your way past traffic and a car makes a sudden turn without indicating, you have a strong case.

If you were whizzing past and traffic was slow in both directions and the vehicle coming out had been waiting a while and was indicating then I would expect a court to find that you should have been able to read the situation and avoid the accident. Right of way doesn't mean you can ignore what is happening around you.

Really if you are going to filter, you need to assume no vehicle knows you are there (pretend you are wearing an invisible cloak) and be very wary on approach to turnings from both directions, pedestrians and drivers being courteous to other road users. You should be reading the road well in advance of the average driver

When I am filtering in a similar situation my thoughts run along the lines of

here comes that road on the left (it helps to know your route!)
my lane is stopped - careful here (traffic unlikely to enter/exit across my path if moving)
why is there a gap in my lane by junction (could be keeping exit clear in case of oncoming traffic turning across lane or could be allowing vehicles to exit)
check for traffic turning across me (indication - try to make eye contact close to junction)
nothing indicating - can't see exiting traffic though
oncoming lane is slow - careful for right turning exiting traffic (might give opportunity for quick exit)
that oncoming vehicle has stopped leaving a gap -SLOW

Once you can see what is going on you're ok.

Rich158

sps137 wrote:

I'm afraid that i'm going to go against the flow here and say that I would expect you to be held at least partially liable. And i say this without any criticism of your riding because we all pass either side of stationary traffic. From a crossing drivers point of view the primary position vehicle had stopped to allow him through, assuming that you weren't in a cycle lane or ona seperate lane (dual carriageway) you are over/undertaking a stationary vehicle and so it is your responsibility to ensure the way ahead is clear. the fact that as cyclists we can pass either side of slower traffic easily does not give us right of way However as with others I'm no solicitor, just a personal opinion.

iirc from an insurance point of view if you are joining a highway, you are solely responsible for ensuring the road is clear and it is safe to join the carriageway. Just because someone leaves a gap for you it does not infer it is safe to pull out, and does not absolve you from blame if you hit anyone, or anything.

R34PER

filtering accidents always seem a bit tricky and there has always been a lot of discussion on motorcycle pages about them but i think the rules would be viewed in a similar light click here about a third of the way down this link is some diagrams and info.

carbonfiend

Hi
I had a very serious accident 4 years ago that was similar though I wasn't overtaking and coming downhill somebody did exactly the same manouvre on me and my mate, I broke my pelvis and collar bone. The link that somebody posted here for RJW solicitors is the firm I used to handle my case and they were very professional they are wholly reputable firm contact them and a guy called Paul Kitson. One word of advice accident claims take a long time to sort out and can be very stressfull even though my accident was 100% the defendents fault and they admitted so and his insurers it took over 2.5years to sort out good luck.

carbonfiend

also one last piece of advice and this might sound very mercenary, but trust me this is from my experience where I say again it was admitted by all parties that the defendant was 100% to blame, do not admit to seeing this guy pull out and also make sure you say you were riding with complete caution and reasonable speed. He, his lawyers and his insurers will do everything possible to make this appear it was your fault or you were partially to blame thus reducing the pay out compensation which I might add is shockingly low in this country.