Linux - Turn The Geek-O-Meter To 11 ;-)

impished

What flavour of Linux do you use?
Personally I'm starting to favour Ubuntu 8.10 but I'm trialling Mandriva One 2009 also.

I'm finding Ubuntu is finally as user/hardware friendly as Windows without the cold authoritarianism. Could this be the beginning of the end of Windows domination?


POLITE REQUEST; Windows fanboys need not post :twisted:

hucking_fell

Erm, you what ?

I thought this was a bike forum

Here's me thinking I was picking this interweb thingy up pretty well as I went along too

mcbazza

My 4GB quad-core Shuttle runs Ubuntu 8.10, with my old X2 4400 serving me 1.5TB of Raid5 via FreeNAS.

I gave up on Windows* shortly after 8.04 came out, and haven't looked back since.

Long before I made the jump, I moved my home webserver to Apache. My DB to MySQL. My RSS to Google Reader. And my default browser to Firefox. My email of choice has always been Hotmail. And once support under Firefox was sussed, there was nothing holding me back.

* I hasten to add that by day I am a Windows sysadmin!! Which is another reason why I 'jumped'. Thanks to the ease of use of Microsoft O/S's, the World+Wife now (incorrectly) thinks that they are computer experts. I hoped that moving to Linux would challenge me more. But, it just works.

impished

Hucking Fell wrote:

I thought this was a bike forum

That's the beauty of "Off Topic". It means I get to reveal myself as a geek on many, many subjects.
I might start a thread titled "Favourite Excel Functions" or "Favourite Use Of Sumproduct" next :shock:

BlackSpur

impished wrote:

Hucking Fell wrote:

I thought this was a bike forum

That's the beauty of "Off Topic". It means I get to reveal myself as a geek on many, many subjects.
I might start a thread titled "Favourite Excel Functions" or "Favourite Use Of Sumproduct" next :shock:

I quite like conditional formatting.

So do you still run Excel with Linux? Is it possible? Or do you use OpenOffice?

impished

BlackSpur wrote:

I quite like conditional formatting.

Oh, yeah. It's got much more interesting in Office 2007 with the new colour bars/icon sets, etc. Shame they haven't improved the VBA IDE though :roll:

BlackSpur wrote:

So do you still run Excel with Linux? Is it possible? Or do you use OpenOffice?

No, I use Excel on Windows @ work and OO on Ubuntu @ home.

mcbazza

Try Excel on Linux under Wine. I find it hilarious that it's faster than same on Windows.

Virtualisation using Sun's VirtualBox is quite good now under 8.10 - there's a new window/screen mode called 'seamless', which makes the windows appear native to Linux. Rather spooky having a 'start' bar hovering over the bottom of the screen, with the occasional explorer window in amongst your Nautilus's.

whyamihere

Ubuntu 8.10 here. Not used Windows as my main OS since about 2003/2004ish.

gandhi

I used Ubuntu for more than a year before I got totally fed up with it. I honestly think that Vista is much better (once you've turned off all of he rubbish). Too much time spent compiling drivers and editing text files made me realise that it's as much of a hobby as an OS - though part of the fun is making it do cool stuff that Windows can't.

Windows also has a couple of killer apps that still don't work well in any of the different virtualisation methods.

I'll probably give it another try in a year - the fact that it's Open Source and developed by a huge community means that it has potential to be the best eventually. As it grows more popular, more manufacturers will be forced to support it well, and it will get a lot easier to use.

Big Red S

I'm back on Debian.

I flirt with Ubuntu at approximately every major release, then get bored with *everything* just working and go back to the interesting problems that crop up using Debian unstable and daily automated updates.

I was playing with opensolaris the other week. I really do think it's true that it's what Ubuntu wants to grow up into. Though I couldn't get any of my Intel chipsets to work properly (quite refreshing seeing talk of an Intel port of an OS).


I do like reading these topics. After a seven or eight year stretch using purely *nixen for everything, I got a job as a junior in an incredibly Windows-centric IT department about a year ago. I tend to find myself saying about Windows exactly what 'normal' people say about Linux....

TheKrikkitWars

The Uni uses Ubuntu, so now I do too, there was no point being an awkward fanboy for Knoppix.

breezer

Run Ubuntu at home for about 2 years on my main PC, put 8.10 on it the other day. I did this simply as I needed to learn it for my IT job and having it on my main pc at home was the best way to do it. It still has issues which rule it out for most average home users. At least they improved the wireless stuff a lot in 8.10 but if I hibernate (it wont let me standy), it wont reconnect on resume and keeps asking for the key despite it being entered. Installing it was also a joke as it had a fit with my monitor and I had to resort to an old one which could just about display the messed up image for 30 seconds at a time before going into power saving mode! but at least so far I havent had to manually edit the xconf file after each time the nvidia drivers updated as that always messed up 8.04!

PS: Memory Map works fine under Wine although connecting to my windows mobile to exchange data didnt work under 8.04, not tried it on 8.10

Bikerbaboon

can we get an option for mac users please...........


Will get me coat.

Big Red S

breezer wrote:

It still has issues which rule it out for most average home users.

Like what? I seriously can't find anything WinXP does better than Ubuntu 8.10 for the 'average home user'. There is the odd bug in hibernation, but there're plenty of odd bugs all over any system that runs on multiple hardware configurations. I can't find anything remotely consistent that'd make my mum say "no, I can't live with this".
Though I might have an odd idea of what an average home user is, I suppose.

EDIT: The above isn't meant to be confrontational. It's just that in the past I've found myself in discussion with people who work on some of these projects, and they've asked me about any problems I've had. Since I've generally not, I have to say 'none', but if there are problems, they'd like to know what they are, and I might as well abuse my ability to tell them every once in a while.
Also, given that you've been using it for a couple of years, it's more likely that your problems are actual problems, and not the differences normally reported as problems ("Argh! Winword's called Writer!").

Installing it was also a joke as it had a fit with my monitor and I had to resort to an old one which could just about display the messed up image for 30 seconds at a time before going into power saving mode!

This is odd. Do you know of anyone else experiencing the same? What graphics card do you have? 8.10 seemed to have issues with later NVidia cards and the odd ATi one, though I thought they only normally presented themselves when you used non-generic drivers. And they didn't seem to affect fresh installs, only dist-upgrades.
Is there still a text install option?

but at least so far I havent had to manually edit the xconf file after each time the nvidia drivers updated as that always messed up 8.04!

You had to edit xorg.conf? That really is odd. Unless it changed the driver, I suppose. But it'd only do that if you got a new one (rather than a new version of the current one) or you were using one that dpkg considered suboptimal.

Thermo1

Ubuntu 8.10 here. I switched full-time from Windows back at 8.04.

breezer

Big Red S: Dont get me wrong, I hate windows and I would rather kiss a bloke that say I like Vista but Ubuntu does have the odd issue ie with wireless still. No idea on why I got the monitor issue but if I hadnt had my old monitor that stayed on whilst being out of range for 30 seconds at a time, I wouldnt have been able to install it at all. 8.04 I constantly had issues with nvidia drivers and so on. Its an onboard 6150se 430 chipset, reasonably new. It was a clean install to a new HD. No idea if there is a text install option in 8.10 and to be honest thats an irrelevant question as its 2008, not 1988

I fully agree though that if you sat someone down who knew nothing about computers then it wouldnt matter all if they used it instead of Windows. My parents for example only surf, use online webmail, download their photos and thats about it.

Yes everytime under 8.04 that the nvidia drivers updated, it screwed up the xorg.conf file and its done it once under 8.10 to the point where I have made it read only and wont be doing any more updates. Doesnt help that I have a monitor with a funny resolution of 1920x1200 which I had to manually add to 8.04 but thats not the point, its a couple of years old and should work fine.

As for Mac's. I recently really wound up my boss by installing OS X on my laptop using the Kalyway hack. Ok the network didnt work or any power monitoring but it was enough to annoy him as it was running a lot quicker on my £360 laptop than his MBP

Big Red S

breezer wrote:

Big Red S: Dont get me wrong, I hate windows and I would rather kiss a bloke that say I like Vista but Ubuntu does have the odd issue ie with wireless still.

What are these issues? Hardware support is obviously one, but that's unfortunately up to the manufacturers to fix, really. If you look at the manufacturers who actually support their own hardware (intel, ralink etc.), the support's quite flawless.
Windows' Wifi support is pretty shocking, though, with Windows wanting to 'manage' the wifi, but also being more than willing to let something else do it and occasionally forget who's doing what. And there's the issue of installing it twice, which I've never quite understood.
Never had a go on a mac with aftermarket wifi...

No idea if there is a text install option in 8.10 and to be honest thats an irrelevant question as its 2008, not 1988

If I'm installing an OS with a superficially fluffy UI that doesn't work on my hardware for whatever reason, I'd be pretty hacked off if I couldn't revert to a simpler installer that did. Even in 2008 I expect progression, and compatibility tends to be an unfortunate victim of progression.
Vista and OSX each support such a small subset of hardware that I'd be pretty hacked off if I didn't have full use of all the hardware by the beginning of the install process. They're both also OSs sold on the basis that you need to upgrade upgrade upgrade, so they *have* to stop supporting old stuff to make you go and buy some new stuff.
Linux isn't, and so there's really no reason to call for it to end support for older hardware, just because it's now 2008.

If you can't use the text installer, you probably shouldn't be trusted with a partitioner.

Yes everytime under 8.04 that the nvidia drivers updated, it screwed up the xorg.conf file and its done it once under 8.10 to the point where I have made it read only and wont be doing any more updates. Doesnt help that I have a monitor with a funny resolution of 1920x1200 which I had to manually add to 8.04 but thats not the point, its a couple of years old and should work fine.

Were these the drivers installed via apt-get/aptitude/synaptic? If so, I'd be tempted to file a bug on Ubuntu's bugtracker.
If not, I'd be tempted to file a bug on the bugtracker of wherever you got it from.
That's not supposed to happen.

breezer

I can use a text installer and partition my own linux setups if I wish thanks.

They were installed by whatever the gui thing is that Ubuntu itself popped up regarding restricted drivers or whatever it calls it, same with codecs you know. I install most stuff via apt-get when I find something I like online.

In 8.10 it looks like its only a monitor detection issue as it lost the settings and identified it as some generic 1024x768 thing but after 2 reboots it sorted it self out then I changed the permissions on the file. In 8.04 it would often refuse to load the nvidia driver and revert back to the legacy ones or whatever it called it or even fail to load X at all leading to faffing with vi in the terminal which I really dislike using

It would be nice to know why after resuming from hibernation it wont reconnect to the wireless. It sees it but just keeps popping up asking for the key which it already has. /etc/init.d/networking restart used to fix issues like that in 8.04 which would drop often and never reconnect but that doesnt help in this resume situation. Also it wont let me standy. Those 2 issues are the only real ones atm but a bit of a pain as I end up leaving it on all the time as I have so much open I dont want to reboot but it means wasting electricity a lot of the time

impished

breezer wrote:

It would be nice to know why after resuming from hibernation it wont reconnect to the wireless.

You don't use a Belkin usb wireless dongle by any chance? I have problems in Mandriva/Ubuntu & Windows with the Belkin. It's knows issue but I've never seen a resolution apart from unplugging and replugging or dis/re-enabling in device manager.

Big Red S

breezer wrote:

I can use a text installer and partition my own linux setups if I wish thanks.

Sorry, that should have probably read 'if one cannot...'. It was more pointing out the the kind of people who are reliant on fancy clicky guis are the kind of people who would probably break things when they install an OS.

They were installed by whatever the gui thing is that Ubuntu itself popped up regarding restricted drivers or whatever it calls it, same with codecs you know. I install most stuff via apt-get when I find something I like online.

Yeah, the restricted drivers manager is just an application of aptitude. If you'd like it fixed, I'd suggest seeing if there already exists a bugreport for it, and if there doesn't reporting one.

In 8.10 it looks like its only a monitor detection issue as it lost the settings and identified it as some generic 1024x768 thing but after 2 reboots it sorted it self out then I changed the permissions on the file. In 8.04 it would often refuse to load the nvidia driver and revert back to the legacy ones or whatever it called it or even fail to load X at all leading to faffing with vi in the terminal which I really dislike using

I'd suggest posting this to a Ubuntu users mailing list or forum.

It would be nice to know why after resuming from hibernation it wont reconnect to the wireless. It sees it but just keeps popping up asking for the key which it already has. /etc/init.d/networking restart used to fix issues like that in 8.04 which would drop often and never reconnect but that doesnt help in this resume situation. Also it wont let me standy. Those 2 issues are the only real ones atm but a bit of a pain as I end up leaving it on all the time as I have so much open I dont want to reboot but it means wasting electricity a lot of the time

It's difficult to know where to start with no details whatsoever of the hardware involved. But, again, a ubuntu-orientated forum's probably a better place to ask anyway.

I will pass on the above if anyone asks me, but not without being able to tell them on which hardware it doesn't work.

breezer

I will google the issues I have to see what I can find. My comment back at your text installer one was because we were on about linux being ready for mainstream and so that needs to be (working) gui only. I do like the way ubuntu is so easy to install then you can go to the standard add/remove and find all sorts of nice software listed for you without having to search for it.

Crawling under the desk tells me that its a pci Netgear WG311T which iirc has the Alteros chipset or whatever it is. I vaguely recall having to use madwifi or whatever its called on an older install. This time it found it first time, connects quite happily and also so far hasnt dropped which it always did under 8.04 and would only reconnect when I manually restarted the networking so the only issue is the non connection after resuming from hibernation

Big Red S

breezer wrote:

I will google the issues I have to see what I can find. My comment back at your text installer one was because we were on about linux being ready for mainstream and so that needs to be (working) gui only.

No. This is pointedly incorrect.
To be ready for the mainstream, a nice fancy clicky gui install needs to be there.
To be ready for *anyone* (including the mainstream) an installer that will work on everything the OS does needs to exist. You seem to be making the assumption that mainstream users only use new hardware.
Like I say, any remotely intelligent person can navigate a text installer. And if they're installing on a 256mb box, they're likely to much prefer the idea of a text installer to trying to load an entire liveCD into ram.

Crawling under the desk tells me that its a pci Netgear WG311T which iirc has the Alteros chipset or whatever it is. I vaguely recall having to use madwifi or whatever its called on an older install. This time it found it first time, connects quite happily and also so far hasnt dropped which it always did under 8.04 and would only reconnect when I manually restarted the networking so the only issue is the non connection after resuming from hibernation

8.10 has substantially better wifi support than 8.04 (unfortunately it's also got noiceably less good high-end graphics support).
But, yeah, madwifi is the closest you'll get to official drivers for atheros chipsets (in the absence of hardware support from atheros themselves). I don't recall ever having used an atheros chipset (by the time I started looking at Wifi, I'd got into the habit of checking for Linux compatibility rather than Windows compatibility), so I'm not in a particularly good position to offer advice...

breezer

Problem was with the ath_pci module which ive now forced to unload before suspend/hibernation then reload on resume and so far its working and reconnecting