Audaxes are about Long Distance riding

bahzob

zoomcp wrote:

regarding LEL; the topic has been done to death elsewhere; I think I can only see one person here that doesn't also reside there.

?? Do you mean LEL or LEJOG? Cant recall too many stories about the LEL.please point me in direction of them..

PS Thanks for proving my point re the Audax UK website.

zoomcp

bahzob wrote:

zoomcp wrote:

regarding LEL; the topic has been done to death elsewhere; I think I can only see one person here that doesn't also reside there.

?? Do you mean LEL or LEJOG? Cant recall too many stories about the LEL.please point me in direction of them..

PS Thanks for proving my point re the Audax UK website.

I meant elsewhere on the web (prepares to get booted off here)

Greenbank

toontra wrote:

I'm afraid that unless Audax UK update their marketing and proceedure they may wither.

I don't think there's a problem. Entrant numbers are steadily growing. Most events attract a healthy number of riders. Having too many riders could spoil it. Many of the small cafes used for controls couldn't support twice as many people.

Greenbank

PHcp wrote:

If Audax is about long distance cycling, why's the car park allways full?

Because lots of people drive to them. I've cycled to/from the start of many events (most recently making a 100km ride into a DIY 250). It's not the greatest psychological boost when the majority of people shoot off in the first 10km because they have fresh legs whilst I've been up since 4am and have already done 75km mostly in the dark.

bahzob

zoomcp wrote:

bahzob wrote:

zoomcp wrote:

regarding LEL; the topic has been done to death elsewhere; I think I can only see one person here that doesn't also reside there.

?? Do you mean LEL or LEJOG? Cant recall too many stories about the LEL.please point me in direction of them..

PS Thanks for proving my point re the Audax UK website.

I meant elsewhere on the web (prepares to get booted off here)

So where exactly? Googling doesnt bring up many hits. Bizarrely in checking this I found II appear on the top 10 of "LEL 2009" (just ahead of "Transformative Mediation: Empowering the Oppressed Voices of a Multicultural City to Foster Strong Democracy").

Greenbank

bahzob wrote:

So where exactly? Googling doesnt bring up many hits. Bizarrely in checking this I found II appear on the top 10 of "LEL 2009" (just ahead of "Transformative Mediation: Empowering the Oppressed Voices of a Multicultural City to Foster Strong Democracy").

http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=67.0

*awaits booting off for mentioning another forum*

zoomcp

Greenbank wrote:

toontra wrote:

I'm afraid that unless Audax UK update their marketing and proceedure they may wither.

I don't think there's a problem. Entrant numbers are steadily growing. Most events attract a healthy number of riders. Having too many riders could spoil it. Many of the small cafes used for controls couldn't support twice as many people.

+1 to that; I predict that within a few years (maybe 5) most sportive riders will wonder why they are paying £30-40 for a non competitive ride with other non competitive cyclists and hopefully Audax will be there to provide a reasonable and sustainable alternative on a more modest scale.

*prepares to be burnt at the stake*

bahzob

Greenbank wrote:

bahzob wrote:

So where exactly? Googling doesnt bring up many hits. Bizarrely in checking this I found II appear on the top 10 of "LEL 2009" (just ahead of "Transformative Mediation: Empowering the Oppressed Voices of a Multicultural City to Foster Strong Democracy").

http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=67.0

*awaits booting off for mentioning another forum*

Thanks. Didnt know this existed.

pieinthesky

toontra wrote:

I do both audaxes and sportives also and enjoy them both, in different ways. I agree with much of what bahzob says about the future of Audax UK, and would add that I really think their event entry system needs to enter the 21st century.

For example, this evening I'm sending off entries for 3 audaxes. This will take me the best part of an hour. I have to:

1) Write a personal cheque (remember those!)
2) Write out 3 envelopes - including 2 stamped/addressed (remember those)
3) Print out and fill in an entry form

for each event. Therefore 3 cheques and forms to be filed and 9 envelopes and stamps.

To enter a sportive takes about 10 seconds with on-line registration.

I'm afraid that unless Audax UK update their marketing and proceedure they may wither. Having said that I really do appreciate all the dedicated work done by the volunteers

If you havent the stamina for a few envelopes and a form how are you going to manage the ride

Why do Sportives and Audaxes always have to be compared. They are different and both are very enjoyable.

Does the fact that Audaxes are much less popular matter? I would say that one of the factors that makes an Audax so good is the low numbers and the quiet lanes. Maybe the organisers feel this way too and therefore dont want to do too much marketing. The format (which is very good) cannot support large numbers anyway.

Now Sportives are run to make a profit (correct me if I am wrong). Marketing is therefore important to them and bigger fields are therefore the norm. The large fields and sense of occasion together with the large fast groups working together is for me what makes a Sportive enjoyable.

So its great that they are different, lets keep it that way.

Philip Whiteman

pieinthesky wrote:

toontra wrote:

Why do Sportives and Audaxes always have to be compared. They are different and both are very enjoyable.

I agree with you here but I think the differences can at times be fairly subtle depending upon the scale of either event. Some smaller sportives are run like big audax events or vice versa.

Perhaps the most interesting fact about this whole thread is the number of respondents that have commented about how they enjoy both types event. A couple of years ago, I tried asking sportivers about the views on audax events and the inevitable response came as, "What is an audax?".

I feel that we are reaching a threshold where audaxers are recognising the professional of sportives and sportivers are questioning the misguided profit opportunism displayed by a minority of organisers and associated costs. More audax organisers are creating their own websites designed to promote and market the event with lots of add on features such as map files, superb HQs and general good organisation away from the conservative straight jacket of Audax UK. Perhaps we shall soon see the emergence of the Spordax? :?

As a person who came from 'audax' I now ride an equal number of sportives and recognise the subtle benefits of either. I do however draw the line at profit maximisers.

zoomcp

as an Audax organiser who has seen a very similar event to mine successfully run as a sportive with a much larger field I can see how the two types of event are similar but different. The similarities are that many use quiet laney challenging routes of 100-160km, the main differences seem to be;

1. Audaxes are usually run by one person; he or she pays the upfront costs eg catering, hall hire, whatever publicity they can knock up at minimal cost, and mostly rely on the AUK website and it's magazine Arrivee to publicise the ride (only the former being available to non-AUK members). Sportives often use a dedicated website often depicting high profile events such as stages of the Tour.

2. Online entry; so far this is only available to AUK members using the relatively primitive PayPal system. I for one hate the postal entry system with a vengance too and offer Paypal for my events.

3. Waymarking; no AUK events use this, relying instead on simple to understand route sheets often painstakingly detailed by the organiser. All sportives seem to use arrows, another workload burden on the organiser.

4. Timing; despite both rides being non-competitive it's not hard with a bit of fiddling about on Excel to convert the finish times on a sportive into a full placing. Publishing finish times is strictly forbidden on AUK events. Not only that but any competitive cycling event is subject to much stricter controls and liaison with the Police than both events currently use so I'm not sure where sportives stand on this. And those tming chip systems are very expensive to hire. Nothing wrong at all with riders on either event going for a personal best or being among the first riders back; just that nobody apart from themself will know on an AUK event.

5. Back -up; there simply isn't any on AUK rides; most riders are expected to carry sufficient spares or use othr transport means to get back to base if it goes pear shaped. Sportives often offer sag wagons and also ambulances; again beyong the means of the Audax organiser.

6. Cost; the bottom line. AUK riders simply will not pay the £20-40 entry fees common on sportives no matter what extra facilities are provided because they don't need them, and there are plenty of other events out there with entry fees of £5 or thereabouts. And many AUK riders (by which I mean riders of AUK events which are of course open to all) will enter events and then decide against riding on the day which is hardly a big deal with such low entry fees (as long as they let the organiser know they aren't turning up) Sportive riders seem to have no problem with the type of entry fees they pay. And I appreciate just how much of that entry fee goes on the costs of running that type of event.

I think with a bit of work on both sides these differences could be eroded and we might as PW says see a new type of ride emerge; the Spordax. There will always be riders on both camps who have no interest in the other type of riding but there's certainly room to meet in the middle.

bahzob

The question I am not what the answer to is "How do people first find out about Audaxes, especially if under 40 and not a member of a cycling club?"

I didnt know they existed until I joined a club, whereas I did know about sportives (mainly because a large one held near to me that another (non-cycle club friend) had heard about and was going to).

Sportives are quite good at marketing themselves and attracting the growing group of riders who are riding for fun and fitness and not part of clubs (got several examples like these at from work).

Philip Whiteman

bahzob wrote:

The question I am not what the answer to is "How do people first find out about Audaxes, especially if under 40 and not a member of a cycling club?"

I didnt know they existed until I joined a club, whereas I did know about sportives (mainly because a large one held near to me that another (non-cycle club friend) had heard about and was going to).

Sportives are quite good at marketing themselves and attracting the growing group of riders who are riding for fun and fitness and not part of clubs (got several examples like these at from work).

Quite! A spot on observation.

I belong to one only a few club/organisers that actively promotes audaxes to an external audiance. For example, I am currently marketing an audax for the Beacon RCC (see my signature below), this involves dedicated webpages plus advertising the events via message boards. Only yesterday I was circulating around cycling shops and dumping off glossy leaflets. We shall generate our usual 400 or so riders across the four rides Compare that to some of the quieter and unmarketed events that are lucky to attract anything more than a couple of dozen entrants.

However, we cannot some organisers do not have the resources to market their events. Many scratch together an event with very limited resources unlike some which have supporting enthusiasts at their disposal - which marks them out from sportives. Their biggest job is sometimes hiring the HQ! Possibly, one remedy would be a refreshed AUK approach towards promotions and their website.

Incidentally, if anyone here wants to enter a good audax, don't forget the Cotswold Expedition on 21st June!


.[/quote]

Greenbank

bahzob wrote:

The question I am not what the answer to is "How do people first find out about Audaxes, especially if under 40 and not a member of a cycling club?"

I did the London to Cambridge charity ride a couple of months after giving up smoking (although I've done a fair bit of cycling in the past) and, afterwards, read someone's ride report (on uk.rec.bicycles) about how if he did it again the next year he'd turn it into a DIY Audax. I googled Audax, read some more ride reports, found the website (which I don't have a problem understanding), decided to join and did my first Audax aged 30 and I've never been a member of a cycling club.

There are probably plenty of people on here who are under 40, not a member of a cycling club, who've heard about Audax thanks to reading threads on here.

People seem to think that Audax is a failure, or failing, because some rides only attract 20 people. I like them because they're small and personal and, again, Audax membership is growing nice and steadily. It doesn't need a massive influx of people and, possibly, couldn't cope properly with a significant increase in the number of people. It's run entirely by unpaid volunteers in their spare time. Most events are run at break-even, and sometimes at a loss, purely by the kindness of the organisers and their love of cycling.

pieinthesky

Greenbank said

People seem to think that Audax is a failure, or failing, because some rides only attract 20 people. I like them because they're small and personal and, again, Audax membership is growing nice and steadily. It doesn't need a massive influx of people and, possibly, couldn't cope properly with a significant increase in the number of people. It's run entirely by unpaid volunteers in their spare time. Most events are run at break-even, and sometimes at a loss, purely by the kindness of the organisers and their love of cycling.

... and he has got it spot on.

Audax is like watching a good (but unknown) band at your local with 20 others. A sportive is like watching U2 at Wembly. You wouldnt get home from the pub and say what a failure it was because the marketing was rubbish or because there werent twenty thousand fans crammed in, several huge video screens and someone selling rip off T shirts.

jimwin

[quote=Incidentally, if anyone here wants to enter a good audax, don't forget the Cotswold Expedition on 21st June! [/quote]

For those in the South West, why not try the 3 audax rides from Launceston on the 14th June. This includes a challenging 130 mile ride over both Bodmin Moor and Dartmoor. All 3 are listed in the AUK calendar and more details are available on my web site at:

www.wilkinet.demon.co.uk/Cycling/Events/2009-06.html

3.50 UKP for the 105K events and 5.00 UKP for the 210K Two Moors Challenge. Why pay more?

- JimW

Fixed Wheelnut

A bit ironic but a lot of the club riders that ride my 100km Invicta Grimpeur do so for traing for the 'Tour of Flanders' sportive

It has become a popular ride usually attracting 130+ riders, where as the Invicta 400km only attracted 30 riders last year.

Longer rides will never really attract the high numbers of shorter rides but then again the average Audax organiser cannot logistically deal with high numbers on a longer event.

I have ridden both types of events and enjoyed both I think the difference is that sportive riders like the idea of being timed and treated as if racing and an Audax ride is just a ride they could go and do anytime.

Live and let live it's all more bums on saddles.