Car drivers do not see cyclists!!

moonio

I worked late last night and got a taxi home.
During the journey I discussed cycling with the driver and cars sharing the roads etc.
So he pulls up at a roundabout with a cyclist crossing his path less that a meter in front of him and proceeds to mow him down. The driver then said...oh i didnt see him!!
But the cyclist was directly in front of the car and brightly lit up in the headlights!

I give up!!

gb155

was he ok?

Rich158

I always try to make eye contact with car driivers, just so they knoow I''m there. It still doesn't stop them pulling out on me though. The same goes for pedestrians

I'm convinced it's not that they don't see us, just that they don't register the speed we are doing

prj45

moonio wrote:

The driver then said...oh i didnt see him!!

Were you talking to him at the time?

I think when people are talking they think they are taking in what's going on in front of them but they're not, they're "looking inside" recalling and processing information. Watch somebody's eyes when you ask them a question, they defocus, sometimes even dart up left or right.

moonio

Yes the cyclist was ok, luckily he didnt get hit.
I think that when car drivers pull up at junctions they look to their far right and often don't see cyclist in their near right or center vision.

NGale

cyclists are a bit like the offside in football, you see the one in the long and middle distance but you miss the one right under your nose.

always_tyred

moonio wrote:

Yes the cyclist was ok, luckily he didnt get hit.
I think that when car drivers pull up at junctions they look to their far right and often don't see cyclist in their near right or center vision.

I'm afraid its worse than that. It is the object recognition thing I go on about. There is a hill I come down each morning. Depending on the phase of the lights, I can find myself on my own or with nothing behind me. I can almost guarantee that once or twice a week I will have to weigh anchor because a driver has watched me approach and at the last minute pulled out of a side road right in front of me.

I regularly have to abort right turns as drivers come right through me as I'm indicating and moving across. Sometimes they are just assholes but other times, you lock eyes with them and you see that "Oh gosh, there's a cyclist" expression on their faces. I honestly beleive that autopilot is helping them steer round a piece of road furniture, but in the preceding 10 or 15 seconds they genuinely haven't registered that there is a vehicle in front of them and the angry gesticulating AT right next to them is the first time they've seen it. SMIDSY, as they say.

downfader

Rich158 wrote:

I always try to make eye contact with car driivers, just so they knoow I''m there. It still doesn't stop them pulling out on me though. The same goes for pedestrians

I'm convinced it's not that they don't see us, just that they don't register the speed we are doing

I think we over emphasise the eye contact ideal. I mean we can all have been on very busy roads with lots of potential hazards and its difficult to make eye contact with each and every one of these. The same goes at night - driver isnt going to be looking at yourb face, they'll most probably be looking at the road with a hundred other things on their mind, they will also be sat in a dark little box. :?

Then there are the drivers that just want to avoid eye contact. The same goes for other cyclists too infact.

The various pullouts and smidsys - I think its as much to do with impatience as to do with not registering speed (anyone remember the news report on drivers/road users not associating small vehicles with speed?), and its as much to do with the autopilot effect.

alfablue

Rich158 wrote:

I always try to make eye contact with car driivers, just so they knoow I''m there. It still doesn't stop them pulling out on me though. The same goes for pedestrians

I'm convinced it's not that they don't see us, just that they don't register the speed we are doing

I think eye-contact works the other way - the driver is thinking, "ah he's seen me, he's on a bike, he can wait, I'll pull out" The eye contact allows for a transaction between the two of you, of course the driver in their metal box has the upper hand, so it is rarely one of them taking responsibility as they are not in peril, they are passing responsibility to you. Don't expect any altruism or even courtesy (well, not often!).

I deliberately hold my head so it looks as if I am not paying attention, looking down (I am peeping though), therefore the driver cannot pass responsibility over to me. As a pedestrian I do this too, for crossing roads, if you look at drivers they keep going, if you put your head down and walk they stop. (don't try this at home).

chuckcork

downfader wrote:

its as much to do with the autopilot effect.

I find myself in this while driving, then again happens when cycling too. Not too often but often enough to be a worry.

Not very much of course to run into in East Cork but will be back in blightly in a bit over a week, and not looking forward to dealing with the traffic at all....

nwallace

downfader wrote:

drivers/road users not associating small vehicles with speed?

Dunnoh, a mates Yamaha 125 2 stroke isn't all that bigger than my Sardar. Put us on our respective bikes and my Sardar suddenly gets a lot bigger than the 125 (Baz is quite short)
Ok so there is the noise factor and the size and brightness of the front light at all times, and the leather motorcycling gear.

Wonder if we all strapped headlights to our bars, wore black baggies and a full face lid it woudl make a difference :-p

chuckcork

nwallace wrote:

downfader wrote:

drivers/road users not associating small vehicles with speed?

Dunnoh, a mates Yamaha 125 2 stroke isn't all that bigger than my Sardar. Put us on our respective bikes and my Sardar suddenly gets a lot bigger than the 125 (Baz is quite short)
Ok so there is the noise factor and the size and brightness of the front light at all times, and the leather motorcycling gear.

Wonder if we all strapped headlights to our bars, wore black baggies and a full face lid it woudl make a difference :-p

From experience, no, it wouldn't make any difference at all.

They would still not see you.

EricaR

Honestly I tried to work it out for ages why cars couldn't 'see' me when I have my flourescent jacket and flashy armbands etc but not when I don't have the bulky stuff on

think this guy has the answer....

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/24362/Want- ... -not-a-lid

chuckcork

Erica, IIRC this guy in the process of conducting his research got knocked off his bike twice!

Scary part about this article is that the bigger and more dangerous vehicles tending to give less room than less dangerous cars. Perhaps the drivers need better training?

Eau Rouge

nwallace wrote:

Dunnoh, a mates Yamaha 125 2 stroke isn't all that bigger than my Sardar. Put us on our respective bikes and my Sardar suddenly gets a lot bigger than the 125 (Baz is quite short)
Ok so there is the noise factor and the size and brightness of the front light at all times, and the leather motorcycling gear.

Does he ride more in the middle of the lane?


With drivers waiting in side roads or at junctions I use more than just eye contact, I have that "don't even think about it" expression as I look at them. OK, your average London commuter is going to see more cars at side roads on a morning commute than I will all month, but it's working so far.
Knowing I have the deed to the road in the glovebox of the beemer at home might help my I "I own the road" approach to cycling too

Rich158

chuckcork wrote:

Erica, IIRC this guy in the process of conducting his research got knocked off his bike twice!

Scary part about this article is that the bigger and more dangerous vehicles tending to give less room than less dangerous cars. Perhaps the drivers need better training?

Unfortunately the biggger vehicles are often driven by people who consider themselves to be profesional drivers, which leads to complaceny. I have several mates who are lorry drivers, and they seem to have the atitude that as they drive for a living they are excellant drivers and can do no wrong.

This was brought home to me recently, there is some new legislation that will require anyone holding an hgv or psv license to undergo continuing profesional training every year, and to prove they are up to date with the latest legislation and are still fit to drive. A local haulier was in my local rag complaining about this extra red tape, and stating that all lorry drivers were excellent drivers, and that this was an insult to them.

I found this very amusing, as an architect I have to undergo at leat 35 hours of CPD every year and prove it to my profesional body, the same goes for any profesional be they lawyer doctor or whatever. Why shouldn't someone who drives a potentialy lethal piece of machinery have to undergo the same scrutiny on a yearly basis. It might go some way to avoiding the arrogance most lorry drivers seem to have

NGale

As a teacher (albiet a part time one) I have to undergo 30 hours CPD every year. as a call taker with the ambo service, I have to under go 10 hours. As a first aider I have to undergo 50 hours CPD every year.

It's a part of life now and haulage companies shouldn't complain especially if they want to maintain their 'excellent' standards!

chuckcork

Rich158 wrote:

I found this very amusing, as an architect I have to undergo at leat 35 hours of CPD every year and prove it to my profesional body, the same goes for any profesional be they lawyer doctor or whatever. Why shouldn't someone who drives a potentialy lethal piece of machinery have to undergo the same scrutiny on a yearly basis. It might go some way to avoiding the arrogance most lorry drivers seem to have

I didn't realise there was an upside to not having my Australian architecture degree recognised by ARB!

sirmy

I drive a yellow van with a full width light bar on the top and people still pull/walk out in front of me. I sometimes think that humans just aren't able to cope with traffic.

EricaR

chuckcork wrote:

Erica, IIRC this guy in the process of conducting his research got knocked off his bike twice!

Scary part about this article is that the bigger and more dangerous vehicles tending to give less room than less dangerous cars. Perhaps the drivers need better training?

I think we all knew that one about the bigger vehicles! Esp white vans.... :x