Mrs Fuentes Lifts the Lid
Comments
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Duplicate post removed. :oops:0
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Your are putting words into my mouth. I did not speak `fondly` or otherwise of a `dope free age`. I would accept that I too have, in the past, enjoyed watched racing without being aware of the artificial way in which the performances were created, including the performances of riders such as Riis, Indurain, Pantani and Armstrong. However, now that I am less naive I cannot watch with same enthusiasm. However, if I knew that `cycling was ... totally clear of any doping and drugs` I would be able to watch with the same enthusiasm that I used to have.colint wrote:0 -
Another duplicate post due to forum lag removed. :oops:0
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I wonder if there were a Holocaust thread, would we still have a minority of posters saying it never happened?
Mrs F, as a fellow competitior, qualifies as being a valid critic. She knew many of the medalists. A source of truth, heck, maybe even evidence.
She says the Olympic team was doped to the eyeballs, so they were.
Plenty of data to support the fact that Cecch, Conc and Micky F had more Italian blood in their hands, than the Mafia.
Fermin Cacho? The Lasse Viren of the '90's.
......sorry colint. More of the same, I'm afraid. Only 3 and a bit months to Het Volk!
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
The point being, that if a government is prepared to involve itself in assassinating 'rogue elements', then I'm sure it had no qualms whatsoever in sponsoring doping in sport.Moray Gub wrote:LOL.........ill give you your due with this one andy this is an absolute belter , to go from Spanish murder squads to organised Olympic doping in one sentence ........brilliant !
You should read this book, you never know you might learn something.0 -
aurelio wrote:However, there is no evidence that blood doping was used in stage races until advent of big-budget teams likes USP who were able to provide the required medical backup and overcome the logistical problems associated blood doping.
You mean apart from Tour De France doctor Pierre Dumas walking in on Gastone Nencini doing exactly that in the year he won the tour, 1960?0 -
No, no, no, leguape, you don't understand. Only big-budget US teams can afford the expense of, er, a motorcycle with refrigerated panniers... They must cost millions.Le Blaireau (1)0
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One might say, yes, apart from that apparently isolated example.leguape wrote:
You mean apart from Tour De France doctor Pierre Dumas walking in on Gastone Nencini doing exactly that in the year he won the tour, 1960?aurelio wrote:However, there is no evidence that blood doping was used in stage races until advent of big-budget teams likes USP who were able to provide the required medical backup and overcome the logistical problems associated blood doping. However, I accept your point. Perhaps the reality is that many of the performances of earlier eras were as much fabricated shams as the performances of the recent era. 
One additional point though. If it is the case that methods such as blood doping have a much longer history than is commonly assumed, how does this in any way weaken the evidence showing that blood doping was used to great effect by the likes of Armstrong? Surely, especially given the big budgets and medical backup of modern teams (and not just US based ones... :roll: ), there is every reason to believe that all that has changed is that, in more recent times, such methods have been applied with a degree of effectiveness that the likes of Nencini could only have dreamed of.0 -
andyp wrote:
The point being, that if a government is prepared to involve itself in assassinating 'rogue elements', then I'm sure it had no qualms whatsoever in sponsoring doping in sport.Moray Gub wrote:LOL.........ill give you your due with this one andy this is an absolute belter , to go from Spanish murder squads to organised Olympic doping in one sentence ........brilliant !
You should read this book, you never know you might learn something.
You could say the same about almost any government in western europe at some point in time, hit squads or eliminating their own people were not exclusive to the Spanish you know Quite preposterous to bring that into a doping thread though ,as for learning theres not much i could learn from you thats for sure.
MGGasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
aurelio wrote:
modern-day doping benefits different riders to different degrees, so even if everyone doped this would not create a 'level playing field'.
You could say exactly the same thing about training.John Stevenson0 -
I would like to agree with aurelio on this one. I have no great heroes per se in cycling, but I find the sport utterly heroic, especially climbing. The reason I get so vexed by the likes of the people mentioned in this thread is that they have taken the purity and nobility out of the most pure and noble sport. Nothing is better to watch than people toe to toe, eyebals out in the mountains. I don't care how fast they are going, just that they are not cheating. Now it's unlikely I'll ever be sure again.Dan0
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I don't care how fast they are going, just that they are not cheating. Now it's unlikely I'll ever be sure again.
Well I doubt there has ever been a "clean", cheat free TDF. And if anything drug testing has possibly made things worse rather than better by forcing the introduction of designer drugs. It is time that doping as a whole is re-looked at because the present system based on some bizarre fantasy English Victorian Corinthian Ideals doesn't work and never did.0 -
flattythehurdler wrote:I would like to agree with aurelio on this one. I have no great heroes per se in cycling, but I find the sport utterly heroic, especially climbing. The reason I get so vexed by the likes of the people mentioned in this thread is that they have taken the purity and nobility out of the most pure and noble sport. Nothing is better to watch than people toe to toe, eyebals out in the mountains. I don't care how fast they are going, just that they are not cheating. Now it's unlikely I'll ever be sure again.
It hasn't been pure or noble at any point in its existence as a sport. It really as simple as that. Once you get over that disappointment it really is quite easy to enjoy it.0 -
leguape wrote:flattythehurdler wrote:I would like to agree with aurelio on this one. I have no great heroes per se in cycling, but I find the sport utterly heroic, especially climbing. The reason I get so vexed by the likes of the people mentioned in this thread is that they have taken the purity and nobility out of the most pure and noble sport. Nothing is better to watch than people toe to toe, eyebals out in the mountains. I don't care how fast they are going, just that they are not cheating. Now it's unlikely I'll ever be sure again.
It hasn't been pure or noble at any point in its existence as a sport. It really as simple as that. Once you get over that disappointment it really is quite easy to enjoy it.
I agree with leguape. I can't think of too many human endeavors that are pure and noble.
Maybe the Pope or Mother Teresa. Pretty much everything and everyone has both good and bad elements. Leguape is right. Pro cycling has never been "pure". How can it be?
Humans are involved in it.
Dennis Noward0 -
dennisn wrote:I agree with leguape. I can't think of too many human endeavors that are pure and noble.
Maybe the Pope or Mother Teresa. Pretty much everything and everyone has both good and bad elements.
Some pretty bad choices of examples there Dennis.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:dennisn wrote:I agree with leguape. I can't think of too many human endeavors that are pure and noble.
Maybe the Pope or Mother Teresa. Pretty much everything and everyone has both good and bad elements.
Some pretty bad choices of examples there Dennis.
:?: :?: :?: :? :?
Dennis Noward0 -
I don't know the dirt on Mother Theresa but the Pope was in the Hitler Youth...0
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biondino wrote:I don't know the dirt on Mother Theresa but the Pope was in the Hitler Youth...
She's alledged to have misused funds and her primary aim wasn't to help the poor it was to expand Catholicism. Also it's been claimed her organisations didn't offer a very good level of care.
She probably did a lot of good. And a fair amount of things which should not be applauded.
Don't believe the hype.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:biondino wrote:I don't know the dirt on Mother Theresa but the Pope was in the Hitler Youth...
She's alledged to have misused funds and her primary aim wasn't to help the poor it was to expand Catholicism. Also it's been claimed her organisations didn't offer a very good level of care.
She probably did a lot of good. And a fair amount of things which should not be applauded.
Don't believe the hype.
Well, I thought that at least the Pope and Mother Theresa were at the very least a good
resemblance to the "pure" idea that "flattythehurdler" talked of. Guess it kind of bolsters
my case that there are very few "pure" endeavors in the human arena. Whatever pure means.
Dennis Noward0 -
iainf72 wrote:biondino wrote:I don't know the dirt on Mother Theresa but the Pope was in the Hitler Youth...
She's alledged to have misused funds and her primary aim wasn't to help the poor it was to expand Catholicism. Also it's been claimed her organisations didn't offer a very good level of care.
She probably did a lot of good. And a fair amount of things which should not be applauded.
Don't believe the hype.
ATTENTION ALL ARMSTRONG FANS
Next time you read something posted about LA that you dont like remmeber NO one is safe on this forum. :P :P
aurelio do you have any dirt on the good mother?Take care of the luxuries and the necessites will take care of themselves.0 -
Mother Theresa is known as "M Theresa" on the Fuentes blood bags - apparently0
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No, but i didn't know about it then. I dislike LA's behaviour, not the fact that he may have cheated. Still think he won because, more than his rivals, he was prepared to to whatever it takes to win, including helping his team and working very very hard. It just seems that he brought my idyll crashing down so in some way i blame him for the problem, which isn't fair. There is much nobility in humanity, it's just easier tyo see the bad bits sometimes.Dan0
