Chainless Bikes

lost_in_thought

The title of this article and my thread is slightly misleading.

But what do you think of the carbon belt thing?

markshaw77

BMW did something similar on one of their <cough>motorbikes</cough> and the results were pretty impressive IIRC.

Less chain maintenance and longer times between replacement all sound like a good thing!

always_tyred

Yup - its a way forward. In a few years, the thing to have will be a continuously variable hub transmission (do a google search for "NuVinCi"), disc brakes and carbon belt drive.

ansbaradigeidfran

NuVinci, that is a genius invention! I guess using indexed shifters with it would be a bit silly.

Okay, I admit it... I am a closet hub gear fan. :oops:

don_don

Orange and others have been trying these on SS mountainbikes for a little while. Apparently they are super efficient and strong. The only problem is that you can't split them, so the frame or drop-out have to be designed specifically.

IMO, these will be big news in the urban / hub-gear / SS / fixed world in the near future.

don_don

Oh, and being a bit dull I hadn't noticed its Trek that are doing this, so watch out for Specialized and everyone else to follow suit!

always_tyred

ansbaradigeidfran wrote:

NuVinci, that is a genius invention! I guess using indexed shifters with it would be a bit silly.

Okay, I admit it... I am a closet hub gear fan. :oops:

The problem is that it weighs 4kg. That's twice as much as a Rolhoff.

So there's some product development to do I think.

TRADESIZE

i really like the look of that there trek, however i dont like the belt drive,as it will be hard to obtain differnt cogs for front and rear, plus i am assuming theres no way it will have a flip flob hub. Does anyone know if I an convert it to a chain if i buy one as its one of the very very few otp single speeds i like.

ta

snooks

ansbaradigeidfran wrote:

NuVinci, that is a genius invention! I guess using indexed shifters with it would be a bit silly.

Okay, I admit it... I am a closet hub gear fan. :oops:

It's a load of balls if you ask me...........

gtvlusso

If it works for Buell, Harley Davidson and BMW low powered motorbikes - then why not bicycles - derailleurs could be interested though!

Belts have been driving the camshafts in your car for years! Unless you have a Merc or a BMW!

hisoka

I've been reading up about that belt drive, Gates Carbon Drive system. Looks good, might have to plan one for the future bike hehe.

lost_in_thought

I just thought it would be a total pain if you wanted to change anything - change your gearing, for example.

Also, although they are clearly hardwearing if they can be used on motorbikes, what happens if it DOES break, if you use a chain you can get one very easily, not one of these...

edhornby

It would be interesting to get Chris Boardmans view on this - he's the technical director for the GB track team so if we will or won't see belt drives ridden by Hoy, Wiggins Pendelton et al this would influence the trickle down to the road/consumer market.

No reason why you couldn't have a bolt on rear dropout (like a replaceable derailleur hanger) to get round the issue of maintenance/replacement, and if you changed gear you'd just have a different set of belts to go with the respective cog

Littigator

snooks wrote:

ansbaradigeidfran wrote:

NuVinci, that is a genius invention! I guess using indexed shifters with it would be a bit silly.

Okay, I admit it... I am a closet hub gear fan. :oops:

It's a load of balls if you ask me...........

No go on...tell us what you really think

As for the belt drive, it works but it seems to be a heavily proprietary system which means all the big brands will love it and adopt it.

The interchangeability of parts will drastically reduce and we'll all end up riding the cycling equivalent of an iPod in 20 years time.

10 years after that they'll be an exposion of reintroduced "retro-chain technology" and everyone will say that they preferred chains really and 'ooh wasn't it nice in the olden days' and 'wow don't you get an amazing feeling of power transmission' blah blah blah

Brilliant I can't wait :evil:

woodyonthebeach

I like it. Looks like a bit of hot frame in my book.

attica

Near vertical dropouts with a horizontal slider

Why?

Gilbie

lost_in_thought wrote:

The title of this article and my thread is slightly misleading.

But what do you think of the carbon belt thing?

I think the belts are stronger than people give them credit for. Similar principle to a fan belt or cam belt on a car. I'm fed up with a muddy comute so will be buying one of these for days when I want to use the road. Most shops wont get them in until 5th Jan 09 though - cant wait!

wgwarburton

Attica writes:

> Near vertical dropouts with a horizontal slider
> Why?

I think it's because the belt tension is critical and relatively high. I expect that the dropouts are vertical to allow puncture repairs without mucking up the alignment and the slider is a more sophisticated "chain-tug" to get the tension just right. It may well incorporate a slot to allow belt-changes, too, which is an important part of the design...

I'm intrigued, and would like to try one out- seems like it has great potential for hassle free commuting. Depends how well it works in The Real World...
I don't see myself buying a brand new bike in order to get this feature, though!

OTOH, this drivetrain on a lightweight steel frame with a Sturmey s3x and drop bars might just be the perfect commuter bike!

Cheers,
W.

craker

Always Tyred wrote:

Yup - its a way forward. In a few years, the thing to have will be a continuously variable hub transmission (do a google search for "NuVinCi"), disc brakes and carbon belt drive.

I suppose this is the commuting forum, and (according to a forum post)

The NuVinci CVP (Model 170S) was designed for use in Commuter or Cruiser Bicycle Applications. This model is not approved for use in Racing or Off-Road Bicycles.

which makes me suspect that high torque may be an issue, pedal too hard and the drive starts to slip. That's only a suspicion, there's no explanation that I can find.

There's a forum with a discussion of efficiency (always the bugbear of CVTs)
http://nuvinci.informe.com/efficiency-dt10.html, only no-one's giving out any figures.

always_tyred

mr_si wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

Yup - its a way forward. In a few years, the thing to have will be a continuously variable hub transmission (do a google search for "NuVinCi"), disc brakes and carbon belt drive.

I suppose this is the commuting forum, and (according to a forum post)

The NuVinci CVP (Model 170S) was designed for use in Commuter or Cruiser Bicycle Applications. This model is not approved for use in Racing or Off-Road Bicycles.

which makes me suspect that high torque may be an issue, pedal too hard and the drive starts to slip. That's only a suspicion, there's no explanation that I can find.

There's a forum with a discussion of efficiency (always the bugbear of CVTs)
http://nuvinci.informe.com/efficiency-dt10.html, only no-one's giving out any figures.

I wondered that. Thought bearing wear might be an issue as well.

However, they are able to make them for more "powerful" applications, so who knows.

I was looking at a hydraulic CVD the other day. Okay, so it needs a computer and a powerful pump, but I bet its efficient.

laughingboy

Attica wrote:

Near vertical dropouts with a horizontal slider

Why?

It looks like the whole dropout area needs allow the belt to be passed through the frame, and they have devised some fancy mechanism to allow this, and act as an adjustable dropout.

I really like the idea of a belt drive. I spent a while last night cleaning and re-lubing my chain, so I am up for improvements. Also, the fact that chains deteriorate (both physically and in terms of increased friction) in the presence of dirt makes them less than ideal for the purpose. But whether this implementation of a belt drive just swaps one set of problems for another only time will tell...