"Your bike's illegal!"

NickHu

When I was riding home the other night some guy shouted at me from his car "Oi mate! Your bike's illegal!" My initial reaction was that he was just another nutter but this got me thinking, is my bike illegal?

As it was dark I am assuming he was referring to my lights rather than my bike, on which I use a Blackburn Mars 3 rear light in strobe mode and a Fenix L2D in flashing mode. The front is particularly bright (although still doesn't stop some car drivers pulling out on me), but he was behind me all the time so it can't be that. Anyway, I kind of know that flashing lights are legal but does anyone know what the law actually states with regard to lights - is there a limit to how bright etc?

glebrus

Consult the nearest police officer.

My national traffic code says, no riding on the roadway at the time of snowfall or black ice. (Riding on the pavement is generally permitted and, sort of, encouraged). Which makes most winter road riding illegal. So what? Police do not bother to enforce it. I use studded front wheel when it is really black ice or heavy snow. (Actually it is impossible to ride without a studded front wheel at times).

Rockhopper

You should have refelctors on your pedals to be road legal and your lights should emit a certain percentage of their light to the side.

singlespeedexplosif

I don't know any figures - but face it, if a halogen main beam on a car is not too bright as to be illegal, any bike light you have on is going to be legal..!

(as an aside - I don't think it's illegal to just have flashing lights, but I think it's not wise..)

gtvlusso

Who gives a frig - at least it made you aware that he could see you.....!! Some people "know it all" tossers..

dondare

One red reflector and four pedal reflectors are a legal requirement, so most bikes are illegal after dark.

It's also illegal for motorists to use fog lights when it's not foggy (misty, driving rain &c.) so a huge number of cars are being use illegally every night.

ChrisLS

...just a low life who gets his kicks shouting at people and driving off...take no notice...he don't know what he's talking about...

ansbaradigeidfran

He may be using out of date information thinking flashing lights are illegal. Flashing lights are now legal, but they have to flash at a constant rate (not flash-flash-flash-wait-flash... strobe lights) and whilst I haven't seen it, I'm sure there's something about not flashing too fast (possible epilepsy trigger).

My Tesco special issue front light has a strobe mode, which I avoid at all times. Strobe lights *may* be legal as a secondary light (i.e. you've got a proper flasher or constant light as well) but don't quote me on that.

glebrus

As far as I know, the requirement re front, rear, and pedal reflectors applies to bicycles at the point of sale. I.e. it is illegal to sale a bicycle without required reflectors. What you ride is another matter and another law.

DavidTQ

NickHu wrote:

When I was riding home the other night some guy shouted at me from his car "Oi mate! Your bike's illegal!" My initial reaction was that he was just another nutter but this got me thinking, is my bike illegal?

As it was dark I am assuming he was referring to my lights rather than my bike, on which I use a Blackburn Mars 3 rear light in strobe mode and a Fenix L2D in flashing mode. The front is particularly bright (although still doesn't stop some car drivers pulling out on me), but he was behind me all the time so it can't be that. Anyway, I kind of know that flashing lights are legal but does anyone know what the law actually states with regard to lights - is there a limit to how bright etc?

Its quite possible that it was just someone who wasnt aware that flashing lights are no longer illegal. Theres plenty out there who dont keep up to date on changes in the law. The number of people out there who are sure the highway code says we should be riding within 12 inchs of the kerb or should NEVER ride two abreast etc etc...

dirk_van_gently

I'm surprised such a TW@t actually understands what is and is not legal.

No doubt an ill informed Daily Mail reader

DavidTQ

glebrus wrote:

As far as I know, the requirement re front, rear, and pedal reflectors applies to bicycles at the point of sale. I.e. it is illegal to sale a bicycle without required reflectors. What you ride is another matter and another law.

Actually no, bells and front relfectors are point of sale only pedal reflectors (for bikes made after 1/10/1985) and rear reflectors are a legal requirement for night use.

From the highway code:-

At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85). White front reflectors and spoke reflectors will also help you to be seen. Flashing lights are permitted but it is recommended that cyclists who are riding in areas without street lighting use a steady front lamp.

[Law RVLR regs 13, 18 & 24)]

"MUST" terms in the highway code are Legal requirements rather than guide lines.

ansbaradigeidfran

glebrus wrote:

As far as I know, the requirement re front, rear, and pedal reflectors applies to bicycles at the point of sale. I.e. it is illegal to sale a bicycle without required reflectors. What you ride is another matter and another law.

The Pedal Cycles Safety Regulations say reflectors have to be on at point of sale, but the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations also require them when it's dark or foggy.

NickHu

Well I have SPD's for pedals so no reflectors on them but I left the ones on my wheels and frame on as it is my commute bike. The strobe mode I was talking about is really a flashing mode - the leds just flash in a pattern.

Therefore from what DavidTQ is saying it sounds like the guy was right then, although ChrisLS and Dirk Van Gently are probably both right in their assumptions that the guy was probably a Tw@t and didn't know why he was right!!

Don't worry, it's not going to bother me but I thought it was a bit of an unusual thing for him to say!

Cheers guys!

DavidTQ

NickHu wrote:

Well I have SPD's for pedals so no reflectors on them but I left the ones on my wheels and frame on as it is my commute bike. The strobe mode I was talking about is really a flashing mode - the leds just flash in a pattern.

Therefore from what DavidTQ is saying it sounds like the guy was right then, although ChrisLS and Dirk Van Gently are probably both right in their assumptions that the guy was probably a Tw@t and didn't know why he was right!!

Don't worry, it's not going to bother me but I thought it was a bit of an unusual thing for him to say!

Cheers guys!

You see if it was me I would have been challenging the guy asking him in what way was it illegal, but Im a beggar for things like that.

But then I also have spd's with reflectors, pure chance - I wasnt aware of the requirement when I brought them.

Finbar Saunders

I'm not sure I'd call the guy a tw*t. If you look through this forum you will find cases of members shouting or telling other road users (presumably loud enough for them to hear) that they should get some lights, get off the pavement or not jump a red light. I don't think they are twats for having a legitimate point, as the OP has indicated the guy did.

Now if he had shouted "Oi w*nker, you're bike is illegal" I think I would agree he is a tw*t!

Squaggles

The most important point is that the guy actually noticed you so your lights did the job .

biondino

You see that gentleman holding a crowbar dressed in a striped jumper wearing a mask and holding a bag with a $ sign on it while entering that house through a smashed window? That's your bike, that is.

daniel_b

biondino wrote:

You see that gentleman holding a crowbar dressed in a striped jumper wearing a mask and holding a bag with a $ sign on it while entering that house through a smashed window?

I am aware of it's existence.....

But seriously, why not ask him where his bell was, that would have confused him

Dan

coffeecup

Hope you reminded the guy that shouting at cyclists counts as careless driving.

The official line on bicycle lighting:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicle ... edalbi4556

and a useful commentary on the rules (already provided above I think):

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4071

linsen

I wouldn't use my fenix in flashing mode -think it flashes far too aggressively for comfort

DavidTQ

linsen wrote:

I wouldn't use my fenix in flashing mode -think it flashes far too aggressively for comfort

aggressive flashers on bikes is one more negative image cycling doesnt need

Do you think a mack would get caught in the chain??

phil_ss1

Having observed from my bike (and car) recently other bikes with and without pedal reflectors I've changed my view and just bought & installed some single sided SPD's with reflectors, resigning the old 2x SPD's to the garage drawer.

Apart from bleating about the cost there is NO excuse for not having SPD and reflectors and therefore being legal.

But it's a free country, just don't moan when you get knocked off and claver brief reduces your claim.

P

alfablue

I have an excuse, I want the convenience of double-sided reflectors, the SPD attachments make them single-sided. I agree pedal reflectors are effective, particularly with the movement, but with reflective strips on my shoes and extremely good lights I think they are not entirely necessary, albeit a legal requirement.

By the way, most double-sided Shimano SPD's come with reflector attachments, so no need to buy new pedals

ride_whenever

Is there a standard for pedal reflectors?

I was thinking that you could glue some reflective strips to your spds and then they'd be fine and double sided.

padonbike

NickHu,
your sensitivity is overwhelming! If we all went into a crisis of self-scrutiny every time some tossa in a motor shouted something vaguely abusive/stupid etc. we'd probably have all quit cycling after just one mile of our first bike ride!

Speaking as someone who commutes 18miles per day in the dark during winter I would advise your to illuminate yourself and your bike in such a way that you can feel reasonably confident that you are doing the best to keep yourself from being knocked off. If you do this you should find that you are probably over and above any legal requirement anyway. E.g. I wear reflective bands with red 4 LEDs each around my ankles - common sense, if not the law, dictates that these are infinitely more effective than pedal reflectors.

Have a bit more confidence about yourself and don't be intimidated by fools. However don't develop too much self-confidence or you may get knocked off by fools.

AndyManc

ansbaradigeidfran wrote:

He may be using out of date information thinking flashing lights are illegal. Flashing lights are now legal, .

Correct .... idiots at work keep telling me this cr** , at which point I have no alternative but to slap them and tell them to stop talking sh** and read the updated highway code. :roll:

alfablue

ride_whenever wrote:

Is there a standard for pedal reflectors?

I was thinking that you could glue some reflective strips to your spds and then they'd be fine and double sided.

Yes, they must comply with BS 6102-2 or an equivalent EU standard, part of complying means they must carry the BS number, so technically nothing else will do (even if it is functionally equivalent or even superior). The Shimano attachments are embossed with the BS number.

jedster

Two things:

1. flashing lights are legal but they are not SUFFICIENT. That is you can use them in addition to steady lights not in place of them (if you want to remain within the law)

2.

I wouldn't use my fenix in flashing mode -think it flashes far too aggressively for comfort

Completely agree with this. Flashing lights are much more dazzling because the eye adjusts to the dark and then gets a blast of light into the dilated pupil. I use flashing lights but only relatively low power ones - they are still highly visible.

J

DavidTQ

jedster wrote:

Two things:

1. flashing lights are legal but they are not SUFFICIENT. That is you can use them in addition to steady lights not in place of them (if you want to remain within the law)

Not true its completely legal to use JUST flashing lights

gs3

For those of you who do not have reflectors for their SPD's it is possible to buy them aftermarket for about £5-6. Shimano model number SMPD22 as seen here.

http://www.decathlon.co.uk/EN/mtb-cages-3885152/

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