Why don't Pro cyclists suffer from so much "burnout&quo

redddraggon

It really bugs me that people say footballers suffer "burnout" or are tired after only 4 or 5 hours (at most) of game time a week, whereas cyclists racing for getting on for 100 days a year getting paid considerably less, don't seem to suffer the same.

OK, there were a number of dropouts for the worlds, citing fatigue/tiredness/long season, but then I'd say it is a more draining/tiring sport.

Am I the only one who thinks Footballers should MTFU?

teagar

Since it's pretty well documented that footballers' performance does significanty drop after a prolonged spell of frequent tough matches, I'd say it is a real problem.

If it wasn't the case I'm sure one or two players would have cottoned onto it by now. They're no less athletes just because their sport is not purely endurance based.

skavanagh.bikeradar

Football is of course a contact sport too which adds a whole new dimension of wear and tear to cycling. Also a lot of footballers will play with an injury, maybe a minor one, but an injury nonetheless. I'm the first to accuse them of being a bunch of overpaid big time charlies, but it isn't a sport that is 'easy' compared to cycling. Footballs problem is that it exists in its own universe of non-logic and massive tie knots where at the Premier league and Champions league level they are all immature millonaires. Quite apart from anything else I should imagine ego is the biggest man management problem for coaches.

Cycling forces you to be more humble as it isn't as well paid, isn't as well exposed in the media and has a long hard season made up of an incomprehensible number of different races most of which you won't ever win. A footballer can be among the best in his position - in cycling you can either win or you can work all year for little reward for someone else. Remember when a Cantona described Didier Dechamps as a 'water carrier'? Massive insult in football, essential worker in cycling (nice crossover of cultural terminology I thought at the time).

Anyway the two things are too different to compare. Football, despite all it's problems with money, ego, prima donnas is still a hard game.

Johnny G

skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:

Footballs problem is that it exists in its own universe of non-logic and massive tie knots ...

Cracking!

redddraggon

skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:

Football is of course a contact sport too

I was talking about Association football, not Rugby Football.

a_n_t

must admit, I feel worse after an hours 5-a-side than I do after riding 70 miles!

SCR Pedro

Hey there,

What really annoys me is when footballers flop to the ground, do a couple of rolls then lie there for an eternity until the doctor comes along with his miracle spray, or if they take a knock to the head, they'll limp away.

You get none of that in cycling. If a cyclist crashes, they want a new bike ASAP so they can get back to the group. One good example is Tyler Hamilton's podium in the TdF after riding almost the whole tour with a broken collar bone (cue all the doping comments :roll: ).

I totally understand what the OP is talking about here. I think about this kind of thing quite a lot.


Cheers
Pedro

Garry H

SCR Pedro wrote:

Hey there,

What really annoys me is when footballers flop to the ground, do a couple of rolls then lie there for an eternity until the doctor comes along with his miracle spray, or if they take a knock to the head, they'll limp away.

You get none of that in cycling. If a cyclist crashes, they want a new bike ASAP so they can get back to the group. One good example is Tyler Hamilton's podium in the TdF after riding almost the whole tour with a broken collar bone (cue all the doping comments :roll: ).

I totally understand what the OP is talking about here. I think about this kind of thing quite a lot.


Cheers
Pedro

They're not flopping around because they're actually hurt though are they!! They do it in order to gain an (unfair) advantage. Something that a pro cyclist wouldn't dream of doing :roll: Ironic that you should mention Hamilton :shock:

SCR Pedro

I agree that it is ironic. I couldn't think of another example. Vinokourov in last years tour also comes to mind, but that's also no different.

Maybe someone else can think of a better example of a rider continuing with a bad injury?

Pedro

PS: Wait, I think I have one. Eddy Mercx continuing after been punched by a spectator. Would that count?

redddraggon

SCR Pedro wrote:

I agree that it is ironic. I couldn't think of another example. Vinokourov in last years tour also comes to mind, but that's also no different.

Maybe someone else can think of a better example of a rider continuing with a bad injury?

Pedro

PS: Wait, I think I have one. Eddy Mercx continuing after been punched by a spectator. Would that count?

Linus Gerdemann completed the TT in Tireno-Adriatico this year with a broken leg did he not?

afx237vi

I'd say diving in football is quite similar to cyclists drafting behind a team car or getting a helping hand up a mountain. Even though it's technically against the rules, everyone does it because the benefits of doing it outweigh the risk of being sanctioned.

skavanagh.bikeradar

Reddragon, I was talking about Association Football too. It IS a contact sport and having played 11 aside for 23 years I can say without doubt in my experience that you do spend a lot of time nursing a 'niggle' of one sort or another. And if at my level players hide injuries so that they get a game you can bet the pros do it what with the win bonuses and what-not.

I agree that there is a difference between reactions to injuries - footballers often look like they've stepped on a landmine or been shot in the back by a sniper in the fabled row z while cyclists wrap themselves around a lampost and get back on the bike and do their job.

However while footballers indulge in feigning injury, waft imaginary yellow cards at refs, swear at officials, dive to gain penalties, steal yards at throw ins and free kicks, pull each others shirts, commit professional fouls, time waste etc etc cyclist draft behind support cars, seek medical attention and hang on for a bit, collect bottles and hang on for a bit, push and shove in the pack especially in fast finishes, refuse to work with a break even if it means losing a win etc etc not to mention the odd doping offence. Every sport has its own version of the professional foul or shirt tugging (as afx237said)

northernneil

bert troutman played an fa cup final with a broken neck

GyatsoLa

afx237vi wrote:

I'd say diving in football is quite similar to cyclists drafting behind a team car or getting a helping hand up a mountain. Even though it's technically against the rules, everyone does it because the benefits of doing it outweigh the risk of being sanctioned.

I suppose I should state the obvious and say that the cycling equivalent to 'diving' in soccer is doping...


But in defence of footballers (never thought I'd write those words), they have a much longer competitive season, so they have to maintain a peak for at least 10 months of the year - most other athletes (including cyclists) can have 3-6 months rest and recuperation between seasons. Or in the case of Lance, he had 11 months to prepare for basically 3 weeks of action.

But I do know that European football teams are considered a little backward in terms of physical prep compared to US and Australian sports. There are still some Premiership managers who consider eating pasta to be a bit wussy.

CyclingBantam

GyatsoLa wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

I'd say diving in football is quite similar to cyclists drafting behind a team car or getting a helping hand up a mountain. Even though it's technically against the rules, everyone does it because the benefits of doing it outweigh the risk of being sanctioned.

I suppose I should state the obvious and say that the cycling equivalent to 'diving' in soccer is doping...


But in defence of footballers (never thought I'd write those words), they have a much longer competitive season, so they have to maintain a peak for at least 10 months of the year - most other athletes (including cyclists) can have 3-6 months rest and recuperation between seasons. Or in the case of Lance, he had 11 months to prepare for basically 3 weeks of action.

But I do know that European football teams are considered a little backward in terms of physical prep compared to US and Australian sports. There are still some Premiership managers who consider eating pasta to be a bit wussy.

Quite what you are basing that on I don't know.

Perhaps 10 years ago that was a very fair comment however nowadays European football is far advanced fitness wise right down to the lower divisions. US and Australian players coming in to the game in europe have quite a bit of work to do to get up to the required fitness levels. Just look at the players who go the other way, always at the end of their careers.

disgruntledgoat

Cycling didn't kill football for me... It was when i got back into rugby league that I really got it into my head that footballers are wimps.

Jamie Jones Buchanan in this years GF for example... Gash to the head, needs 6 stitches at half time. Gets patched up on the field (bandage round the head), gets ball, charges into the next tackle lowering his head.

Ronaldo... Gets little tap to ankle, cries like a girl.

Jimmy Casper: Rides 2 stages of Tour De France in a neck brace.

GeorgeShaw

Not wanting to be cast as a defender of everything in football, but some comments show a misunderstanding of the nature of the game.

Being kicked on the legs hurts. However, the pain is transitory - it gets blanked by the body's adrenaline after a minute or so, this is part of our genetics. So there is no surprise that players go down in pain, and get up shortly after.

And there are plenty of examples of players getting stitched up and playing on.

That's not to condone diving, etc. ...

And re Rugby, just because footballers don't grapple with each other (except as corners and free kicks) doesn't make it a non-contact sport. Getting lumps kicked out of you is the nature of the game. As are the perennial problems with twisted ankle and knee ligaments. It's these that cause a lot of the attrition in football.

mhuk

Peter Cech got a knee in the face and was out for a few months.

Other than that, different sports so how can you compare them other than to generalise.

Garry H

SCR Pedro wrote:

I agree that it is ironic. I couldn't think of another example. Vinokourov in last years tour also comes to mind, but that's also no different.

Maybe someone else can think of a better example of a rider continuing with a bad injury?

Pedro

PS: Wait, I think I have one. Eddy Mercx continuing after been punched by a spectator. Would that count?

They all count as a way of showing how mentally tough pro cyclists can be, Hamilton is a good example of this, we are all in agreement with that. My point was that when a footballer rolls around on the ground, he's not in any pain at all, he's cheating to earn a penalty or whatever. Just like when Ricco took CERA, he wasn't actually doing it because he was anaemic or something. Lots of players, when actually suffering from genuine injury will keep on playing.

Believe me, the fact that someone is actually playing top-flight football, or any sport for that matter, in itself proves a high level of mental toughness.

GyatsoLa

BenBlyth wrote:

GyatsoLa wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

I'd say diving in football is quite similar to cyclists drafting behind a team car or getting a helping hand up a mountain. Even though it's technically against the rules, everyone does it because the benefits of doing it outweigh the risk of being sanctioned.

I suppose I should state the obvious and say that the cycling equivalent to 'diving' in soccer is doping...


But in defence of footballers (never thought I'd write those words), they have a much longer competitive season, so they have to maintain a peak for at least 10 months of the year - most other athletes (including cyclists) can have 3-6 months rest and recuperation between seasons. Or in the case of Lance, he had 11 months to prepare for basically 3 weeks of action.

But I do know that European football teams are considered a little backward in terms of physical prep compared to US and Australian sports. There are still some Premiership managers who consider eating pasta to be a bit wussy.

Quite what you are basing that on I don't know.

Perhaps 10 years ago that was a very fair comment however nowadays European football is far advanced fitness wise right down to the lower divisions. US and Australian players coming in to the game in europe have quite a bit of work to do to get up to the required fitness levels. Just look at the players who go the other way, always at the end of their careers.

Mainly based on many comments by Jurgen Klinsmann, e.g.

http://www.rediff.com/sports/2006/jul/03fwlead03.htm

He got huge flak for this in Germany, especially from team coaches, but it does seen to have worked.

I can't find the links for it, but therer is quite a lot of comparatitve research out there indicating that Australian sports (specifically aussie rules) have lower loss rates for injuries than in soccer - its not just specific treatments, they are also more advanced at getting the message out at all levels about appropriate warm ups, etc.

As for diet....

http://www.tribalfootball.com/content/t ... ramos-diet

finchy

I think on the subject of playacting, most footballers don't do it, there's just one or two at every club. A bit like any other sport really, some cheat, others play fair.

oldwelshman

SCR Pedro wrote:

I agree that it is ironic. I couldn't think of another example. Vinokourov in last years tour also comes to mind, but that's also no different.

Maybe someone else can think of a better example of a rider continuing with a bad injury?

Pedro

PS: Wait, I think I have one. Eddy Mercx continuing after been punched by a spectator. Would that count?

It depends on the type of inhury. You cannot possibly continue with a torn hamstring but it may be possible to continue with broken bones.
I have been racing/rifing with a snapped pin in my arm for 6 weeks, unaware it snapped in a crash I was more worried (an more pain) about the gouge the road took out of my arse

Reddragon, do not forget that with footballers its not just about the game, it is also about the intense training they do and the contact.
When they actually play, that is even more intesnse.
Compare it to cycling, I am sure that on most rides you ride lower intensity than racing? You would also not expect to race long races at high intensity more than twice a week?
If you did , you would also get burnout.

Do not compare to TDF and stage racing that is more endurance though and teir training is geared to that with specific rest periods throughout the year.

dennisn

Look at top flight marathon runners. They may only do 1 or 2 and maybe 3 races a
year. The pounding your body takes running is enormous when compared to cycling.
Add some brutal physical contact, as in football, along with running, and you can really get beat up. I guess in this respect cycling is "easier" on your body. And we all know that the new breed of bikes, components, and wheels reach amazing levels of comfort and
offer a Rolls Royce like ride.

Dennis Noward

DaveyL

Dennis, they mean "soccer", not "football"... :-)

dennisn

DaveyL wrote:

Dennis, they mean "soccer", not "football"... :-)

What can I say? From the states you know? Still lots and lots of running and the pounding takes it's toll. And more than a few instances of very hard contact.

Dennis Noward

graeme_s-2

redddraggon wrote:

It really bugs me that people say footballers suffer "burnout" or are tired after only 4 or 5 hours (at most) of game time a week, whereas cyclists racing for getting on for 100 days a year getting paid considerably less, don't seem to suffer the same.

I've given this a bit of consideration as well. One thing that occurs to me is that they tend to talk about footballer's being burntout after they've been called up to play for their country, or played in a tournament in addition to their usual league matches. In those cases those footballers will have an extra few games in their legs compared to other players, so may not be in such good form.

In cycling the whole peloton races a crippling schedule, so they'll all be in a similar physical situation. Interestingly the one cyclist who did focus on being in the best possible shape for one particular event went on to win it 7 years running.

dennisn

Graeme_S wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

In cycling the whole peloton races a crippling schedule, so they'll all be in a similar physical situation. Interestingly the one cyclist who did focus on being in the best possible shape for one particular event went on to win it 7 years running.

I've always looked upon Lance as sort of like the really big name bodybuilders. The
guys who only compete in one event, The Olympia, and they win it for 5 or 6 years straight. It's their focus, to win it, and it works. One shot to give it all you have.
No other distractions.

Dennis Noward

Deuce

Football does allow substitutions so every player has to keep a lot in the tank and cannot go anywhere near exhaustion as a fresh player could be put against them and run rings around them. How much of a physical challenge can these sports be. In rugby union skillful palyers can easily be taken out of hte game.

The diving is just embarassing to watch. What value would you put on this sport?