Greatest Climber of the last 15 years?

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  • weyayeman
    weyayeman Posts: 1,141
    Simoni is an exceptional climber look at his win on the monte zoncolan stage to name 1.Without team help I may add.
    Contador is also a great climber his paris-nice win sticks in my mind not ot mention his gran tour wins,he has amazing acceleration.
    How son yee divent need gaan doon the Pit,coz thas plenty coal in the coal hoose
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Kléber wrote:
    I think the whole point of a climber is that they are a specialist rider. Neither Indurain nor Armstrong were climbers. Instead, Pantani was very much in the mould of Gaul, capable of long attacks and short accelerations. To be the best climber does not mean you are always the fastest up the mountain.
    .


    You see this is where I get a tad lost....a climber is a specialist rider....capable of long attacks and short accelerations...etc.

    Well.....LA was capable of the longest attacks I've personally ever seen...I've got mostly all the DVDs of the great races going back to 1988...and LA still has the greatest attacks Ive ever seen?....short accelerations!!!....well unless my eyes and my mind are deceiving me then his attacks on Sestriere 1999, Hautacam 2000, Ventoux 2000!!!!....when he accelerated away from Ullrich etc to catch up with Pantani (in a jippy), Alpe De Huez 2001, Pla D'Adet 2001,Ventoux 2002, Pleteau De Beille 2002, Luz Ardiden 2003 and on and on....these weres the greatest bursts of acclerations I've ever seen in Pro Cycling.....and the difference is he kept the attack going until the line?....look at Contador and the likes....they put an attack in, gain a few yards and are hardly able to improve on there lead all the way up?.....

    I put it simply....and I don't buy the 'finesse/agility' of the climber...you can have all the finesse/agility in the world, if you dont make it up first then your not the best.....you put a number of guys at the bottom of mountains....the first guy up more repeatably than any other is the best climber....and thats it....theres nothing more to say....think we should keep to hard facts than colourful 'artwork'.
  • eh
    eh Posts: 4,854
    Here are a few for debate just getting in on 15 years.
    Andy Hampsten a classy rider and the 1st yank to win on the Alpe, plus a great Giro win.

    Also how about:
    Zulle (possibly sacrificed his true climbing ability to try for GT overall)
    claudio cappucci
    Luc Leblanc

    But really Pantani stands head and shoulders above anyone else and the only rider Charly Gaul believed was true modern climber, nuff said.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Again you're overlooking the leadup to those incredible Armstrong attacks

    1) They come, for the most part, in the last week of a grand tour. Recovery plays a crucial part in them. The day in day out grind of a Tour will break down athletes who don't recover as well as Armstrong. That doesn't mean they aren't better climbers.

    2) Armstrong's team. The USPS train has probably the best record of any team ever assembled in delivering its man in prime position to the the foot of the last climb. He hasn't had to fight for position with other riders, take a pull, move from the first 5 wheels etc etc all day. So maybe he's a better team boss, employer and tactician than Pantani, Simoni etc. but that doesn't equal a better climber.

    3) I think you're misremembering. He didn't keep pulling his advantage out to the end after those attacks. I recall him beating beloki by 30 seconds after him and Heras had tag teamed him (2002?), i recall him winning Alpe D'Huez by 1:30 or 2 minutes... but I don't see any 6/8 minute gaps on single climbs, the guys he were riding against were no slouches, once they'd lost his wheel there's always going to be a certain amount of looking at each other seeing if anyone was willing to bury themselves chasing.

    4) We've never seen Armstrong at the top of his form take on Pantani, Simoni, Heras, Virenque etc at the top of theirs.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Armstrong is not a climber. He is an all round GC rider, capable or winning both mountain stages and TTs. A climber is a specific kind of rider and distinct from being the "fastest up a mountain", as infuriating this label may be for some it is one of the subtleties that make cycling so intriguing and varied.

    As said above, he did have an acceleration but only to drop the likes of Ullrich and other "diesels", he could not easily shed the likes of Pantani, Jiminez, Mayo, Escartin and others. And when he did attack in the mountains, it was invariably on a stage with a summit finish within the final 10km, he did not do the solo "raid" across several mountain passes.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Well said Kleber... The only reason I hadn't brought up Ciapucci's "masterpiece" 220km breakway to Sestriere was that it fell outside of the 15 years
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    On Hautacam he took 8 mins(roundabout that) out of Pantani etc after he countered Pantani's first attack....he continued to gain his lead on Ullrich etc on Alpe De Huez, He 'toyed' with Beloki and wanted to give Heras a stage win after the previous days heroics with heras up la Mongie.....his attack on Pla D'Adet was the most brutal acceleration I've ever seen in Procycling...he near took the paint of Jalaberts bike when he passed....hes been the most consistent climber in Procycing maybe ever? I remember 2 bouts of weakness.....on Joux Plane in 2000 where he never took on a previous feed....and on Plateau De Bonascre where Ullrich took 15secs out of him...apart from that he was tops....

    Simoni...don't make me laugh....On Zoncolan in 2003 on the Giro Di'italia...where it was tackled from the easier Sutrio appraoch he attacked at the start of the steeper slopes and only managed to take a 30secs out of Garzelli (who had been riding solo for the year previous due to a ban), On Zoncolan in 2007 tackled from the scary Ovaro side he was 'gifted' the stage by the drug ridden Piepoli....and if it wasnt for Pieopli pacing Andy Schleck I reckon Schleck would have won(it was Shleck that hauled Simoni back in)

    And although I love the Giro its not a race like the TDF...and in those days no 'big' rider took part unless they were priming themselves for the TDF.

    I don't 'misrember'...I look at the results and the performances....and we can talk about US Postal being strong....yes, super strong...and yes, Rubiera,Heras or the 'ace' would be used to weaken the field....but LA had to ride at that pace aswell....along with Ullrich,Basso,Zulle etc....but he was so much stronger than any at the end....because he was a faster climber with better endurance.

    I think the problem here is we don't have a 'pure' climber....we have a Athelete who was also the best Time Trialist...and who could also ride up hills faster than the 'pure' climbers :wink:
  • eh
    eh Posts: 4,854
    So on your basis RICHYBOYcp then Eddy Merckx would be the greatest climber ever, hmm, not sure many would agree with that. Consistency has got nothing to do with being a great climber thats what makes a great GT rider. Being a great climber isn't necessarily about results it is also about the style in which they ride.

    Shame LA bought off the likes of Heras and Beltran since they could have been fun to watch racing in anger as opposed to under LAs orders.
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  • weyayeman
    weyayeman Posts: 1,141
    " he was 'gifted' the stage by the drug ridden Piepoli....and if it wasnt for Pieopli pacing Andy Schleck I reckon Schleck would have won(it was Shleck that hauled Simoni back in) "

    So if he climbed better than a drug ridden piepoli(your words) then surely that makes him a better climber :roll:
    Lets see how armstrong climbs in the giro
    How son yee divent need gaan doon the Pit,coz thas plenty coal in the coal hoose
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    [quote="weyayeman
    So if he climbed better than a drug ridden piepoli(your words) then surely that makes him a better climber :roll:
    Lets see how armstrong climbs in the giro[/quote]

    Yes, I beleive Simoni's probably a better climber than Piepoli,not by much, but Piepoli has been associated with drugs in 2008, not 2007....so who was the better climber on the day?....my remark came as Piepoli just followed Schlecks wheel when Simoni took a small advantage....but when he seen Schleck reeling Simoni in he opted to do the 'pace' setting to control Schleck...I honestly beleive if Piepoli wasn't there then Andy Schleck would have won the stage and overtook Simoni....(P.s I like Simoni)

    Armstrong in this years Giro is not relevant to this topic....I refer to his incredible climbing prowess from 1999-2005, I know he won't be at the same level this year, he's older, not held his unique form for over 3 years now...but at least that way the 'pure' climbers might have a chance?
  • weyayeman
    weyayeman Posts: 1,141
    Armstrong and Simoni are the same age. :shock:
    To me a climber is the likes of Van Impe,Millar,Pantani,Herrera.
    Of the modern ones without positives,Contador,Andy Schleck,+Gesink
    How son yee divent need gaan doon the Pit,coz thas plenty coal in the coal hoose
  • AMRcycling
    AMRcycling Posts: 15
    AMRcycling wrote:
    Alberto contador!!

    From the horse's mouth...

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008 ... 438740.htm
    http://AMRcycling.blogspot.com

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