Respect
but_why
Posts: 3
Why do cyclists not dip their high powered lights on cyclepaths?
Why do cyclists not keep left on cyclepaths?
Basically respect otehr path users
Why do cyclists not keep left on cyclepaths?
Basically respect otehr path users
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Comments
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What the fu....?0
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And Hyde Park for that matter.
I think by the time you've thought about doing it it's often too late.0 -
It's a problem all over the place IMO.
Especially with the lights on not-so-well-lit paths. Motorists are generally in the habit of slowing and dipping lights as they pass, but cyclists seem less so.0 -
do most bike lights even have a dip function?
If it's pretty dark then turning your lights down for other users could be quite dangerous due to not being able to see as well until you turn them back up. But I agree with the cycling on the left thing.0 -
Can't see why anyone wouldn't ride on the left, every other aspect of traffic flow in the UK, Ireland etc including railways does it to that rule.
As for dipping lights, not sure about this. The lights that I have to run on my dynamo hub are quite bright, but do have a definite cutoff angle for that particular reason, but even with angling them down to be say 10 metres in front of me (I would ride in the dark with them at around 15 metres) I think they would still be pretty bright to anyone looking at them from the front angle so short of just shutting them off, I don't see 'dipping' as a solution.
Still understand the problem though, been blinded myself in Richmond Park by (what appeared) to be lights pointing up too high.
Of course, annoying the heck out of others may be a better thing to do than run into the deer herd?'Twas Mulga Bill, from Eaglehawk, that caught the cycling craze....0 -
My lights just flash and offer no actual benefit other than pointing me out to other traffic.......not allot I can do about it. But if you are walking where I am riding, then you will get runover anyway.....as it is a road.0
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Didn't this come up recently?
Bike lights, even the very bright ones, are not as bright as car lights. Why is it a problem in particular? You don't notice the car lights in the city because of the contrast to the street lights but in the parks its less well lit, so you are dazzled more. I can't help wondering if by coincidence there are more cyclists than cars in these particular locations.
My lights are fixed in place. The analogy to car drivers using full beams is therefore unfair. I don't think its at all reasonable to expect cyclists to be constantly reaching foward to adjust the pitch of their lights. Since its also not reasonable, providing they are pointed at the road surface, to expect people not to have lights they can see by.
You are likely getting dazzled as approaching riders come over a crest. I get dazzled by cars with dipped lights all the time - I don't expect them to turn their lights off when they come over crests just for me. Also, bear in mind that cyclists come over crests about half the speed that cars do and so you are dazzled for longer.
I seem to disagree with the majority here, but really guys, is there actually a problem here?0 -
Always Tyred wrote:Didn't this come up recently?
Bike lights, even the very bright ones, are not as bright as car lights. Why is it a problem in particular? You don't notice the car lights in the city because of the contrast to the street lights but in the parks its less well lit, so you are dazzled more. I can't help wondering if by coincidence there are more cyclists than cars in these particular locations.
My lights are fixed in place. The analogy to car drivers using full beams is therefore unfair. I don't think its at all reasonable to expect cyclists to be constantly reaching foward to adjust the pitch of their lights. Since its also not reasonable, providing they are pointed at the road surface, to expect people not to have lights they can see by.
You are likely getting dazzled as approaching riders come over a crest. I get dazzled by cars with dipped lights all the time - I don't expect them to turn their lights off when they come over crests just for me. Also, bear in mind that cyclists come over crests about half the speed that cars do and so you are dazzled for longer.
I seem to disagree with the majority here, but really guys, is there actually a problem here?
I take your point, but, even if they are not as bright as car lights, for some reason, I've been dazzled by lights in Richmond Park after dark too often for my liking. And I mean a hand up in front of my face, slowing down considerably, with a "would you turn that effing light down!" comment scenario. And this is on the flat, not on a crest. I just avoid it at night now.FCN 2-4.
"What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
"It stays down, Daddy."
"Exactly."0 -
cjcp wrote:Always Tyred wrote:Didn't this come up recently?
Bike lights, even the very bright ones, are not as bright as car lights. Why is it a problem in particular? You don't notice the car lights in the city because of the contrast to the street lights but in the parks its less well lit, so you are dazzled more. I can't help wondering if by coincidence there are more cyclists than cars in these particular locations.
My lights are fixed in place. The analogy to car drivers using full beams is therefore unfair. I don't think its at all reasonable to expect cyclists to be constantly reaching foward to adjust the pitch of their lights. Since its also not reasonable, providing they are pointed at the road surface, to expect people not to have lights they can see by.
You are likely getting dazzled as approaching riders come over a crest. I get dazzled by cars with dipped lights all the time - I don't expect them to turn their lights off when they come over crests just for me. Also, bear in mind that cyclists come over crests about half the speed that cars do and so you are dazzled for longer.
I seem to disagree with the majority here, but really guys, is there actually a problem here?
I take your point, but, even if they are not as bright as car lights, for some reason, I've been dazzled by lights in Richmond Park after dark too often for my liking. And I mean a hand up in front of my face, slowing down considerably, with a "would you turn that effing light down!" comment scenario. And this is on the flat, not on a crest. I just avoid it at night now.
What lights do you have?
At all levels of dazzlement, no matter what vehicle I am in/on, I follow the pool of illumination from my own lights rather than looking right into the oncoming headlights.
If you don't have such a pool of light to follow, the effect of others' lights is a lot worse, however arguably you aren't then equipped to cycle on unlit roads at normal speed. Perhaps on your own you could manage by scattered light from the city or a small headlamp, but this is not to say that others are unreasonable for equipping themselves to train during the winter in just about the only traffic free place within a 30 mile radius.
Another question I have is how many other unlit roads you regularly cycle on? Perhaps you simply aren't used to it. I don't mean this condescendingly - its a serious point. When you are cycling on country lanes at night, you learn to take a mental note of upcoming hazards and even the general layout of the road in order not to panic that you have no clue where you are going when a car comes towards you (and I should re-emphaise that car headlights on country lanes are far, far worse than anything but a £600 Lupine or something, and as a cyclist you are usually subject to full beams until the last moment). And sometimes you just have to slow down. Its not a driver's fault for having headlights.
If you are used only to taking things as they come, pretty much as you do during the day, then being "dazzled" is going to be traumatic.0 -
OP...1 post and detrimental to cyclists... hmmmPurveyor of sonic doom
Very Hairy Roadie - FCN 4
Fixed Pista- FCN 5
Beared Bromptonite - FCN 140 -
Cyclists with v bright lights point them slightly down anyway, right? So they both light the way and are visible to, but not not blinding to, anyone coming towards them. Right?
If not then screw you guys, you selfish idiots.0 -
i have my AYUP's pointed down towards the ground when commuting, the main beam probably hits the road about 4 feet in front of the wheel.
If I go through a completely unlit bit of park, I will tilt them up slightly, but then once through I will tilt them back down.
I can do this whilst on the go and with little difficulty.
I also have a flashing front light, but this is pointed down at an even steeper angle.
As I said on the CTC forum, I don't view bright bike lights any differently to oncoming car lights when I'm driving, and occasionally you get the drivers who leave their lights on beam even, the key is there to not look straight at them, and concentrate on the left hand side of the road where your lights are shining, so you don't completely lose your vision.
When off roading I have them (the ayups) set up for maximum visibility, so pretty much flat.
DanFelt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 180 -
How can flat be maximum visibility? Aren't you (apart from when going round sharp corners, say) wasting most of the beam of light by just releasing it into empty space ahead of you? It only lights things up if it reflects off them!0
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I think he means visibility as in others (cars) can see him best when his lights are pointed straight ahead, rather than him being able to see best.
I do the same - away from streetlights I point mine so it lights the ground ahead of me, but on roads with traffic I point it straight ahead - usually aim it for the rear windscreen of a nearby car.
Out in Essex I also have one of those lights you wear on your head - very bright, great for dark country roads, but hard to dip!0 -
biondino wrote:How can flat be maximum visibility? Aren't you (apart from when going round sharp corners, say) wasting most of the beam of light by just releasing it into empty space ahead of you? It only lights things up if it reflects off them!
Agreed - the whole point of these light (assuming you are not mountain biking) is to illuminate potholes and to see where the side of the road is. They are sufficiently diffuse to generally light up the road ahead even when directed 10 or so metres ahead.
Like other things, there will be a proportion of badly adjusted lights on bike just as there are on cars.
However, my impression from this thread is that the perceived proportion of badly adjusted lights greatly exceeds their actual number. If this were about cars, the argument would be that most car headlights are blinding, pesky drivers. However in that scanario, it is understood that headlamps are a regrettable necessity. Its no different for fellow cyclists.0 -
biondino wrote:How can flat be maximum visibility? Aren't you (apart from when going round sharp corners, say) wasting most of the beam of light by just releasing it into empty space ahead of you? It only lights things up if it reflects off them!
Wo there, I think wires are getting crossed here.
I only have them mostly flat, when I am offroading, so well away from any vehicular traffic, apart from the people I am out with, who are also similarly kitted out, and prepared to be blinded when we stop to chat
I have a helmet light as well, and this is what I use for near sight, ie when going through the trees you tend to be looking down for roots, holes, things to crash into etc.
The lights are set up fairly flat, as the ayups give a huge throw of light, and if your travelling at a fair speed, you need it to go far enough infront of you.
If I didn't have the helmet light, I would have them as a half way house, and a bit closer towards the bike for offroading, but the helmet light is a total boon for hitting the trails in the dead of night.
I hasten to add mine are not the above colours!!
For my commuting, I have them pointed down to hit the road about 4ft infront of the front wheel, that's a fairly steed downward angle, any less and they would cease to serve a purpose.
DanFelt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 180 -
Always Tyred wrote:cjcp wrote:Always Tyred wrote:Didn't this come up recently?
Bike lights, even the very bright ones, are not as bright as car lights. Why is it a problem in particular? You don't notice the car lights in the city because of the contrast to the street lights but in the parks its less well lit, so you are dazzled more. I can't help wondering if by coincidence there are more cyclists than cars in these particular locations.
My lights are fixed in place. The analogy to car drivers using full beams is therefore unfair. I don't think its at all reasonable to expect cyclists to be constantly reaching foward to adjust the pitch of their lights. Since its also not reasonable, providing they are pointed at the road surface, to expect people not to have lights they can see by.
You are likely getting dazzled as approaching riders come over a crest. I get dazzled by cars with dipped lights all the time - I don't expect them to turn their lights off when they come over crests just for me. Also, bear in mind that cyclists come over crests about half the speed that cars do and so you are dazzled for longer.
I seem to disagree with the majority here, but really guys, is there actually a problem here?
I take your point, but, even if they are not as bright as car lights, for some reason, I've been dazzled by lights in Richmond Park after dark too often for my liking. And I mean a hand up in front of my face, slowing down considerably, with a "would you turn that effing light down!" comment scenario. And this is on the flat, not on a crest. I just avoid it at night now.
What lights do you have?
At all levels of dazzlement, no matter what vehicle I am in/on, I follow the pool of illumination from my own lights rather than looking right into the oncoming headlights.
If you don't have such a pool of light to follow, the effect of others' lights is a lot worse, however arguably you aren't then equipped to cycle on unlit roads at normal speed. Perhaps on your own you could manage by scattered light from the city or a small headlamp, but this is not to say that others are unreasonable for equipping themselves to train during the winter in just about the only traffic free place within a 30 mile radius.
Another question I have is how many other unlit roads you regularly cycle on? Perhaps you simply aren't used to it. I don't mean this condescendingly - its a serious point. When you are cycling on country lanes at night, you learn to take a mental note of upcoming hazards and even the general layout of the road in order not to panic that you have no clue where you are going when a car comes towards you (and I should re-emphaise that car headlights on country lanes are far, far worse than anything but a £600 Lupine or something, and as a cyclist you are usually subject to full beams until the last moment). And sometimes you just have to slow down. Its not a driver's fault for having headlights.
If you are used only to taking things as they come, pretty much as you do during the day, then being "dazzled" is going to be traumatic.
Aren't car headlights angled slightly away from the oncoming driver's eyes though? I'm not dazzled when driving on country lanes (unless the full beam is on), so shouldn't be dazzled by bike lights.
These lights were not lighting up road, but the airspace ahead.
So, on that basis, I don't think it's got anything to do with not being used to ride on unlit roads. If a light is shining right at you, and it's strong enough, I don't see why someone shouldn't be dazzled, even if they're blind as bats like me.FCN 2-4.
"What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
"It stays down, Daddy."
"Exactly."0 -
Well, I understand that you are dazzled, but I can only say that I'm baffled, since I have never been unduly dazzled by a bike light, only car (or motorcycle) headlights.0
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Bike lights dazzle in RP as the road is unlit, there are no cars after dark and because your eyes get used to the dark. Then any bright-ish light is going to dazzle you if its pointed directly into your eyes.
On the cycle path thing, had some lady on the Embankment section just after Battersea bridge riding up the path. Nothing wrong you may think, but this bit is one way (on the north side of the road) and has several very large arrows painted in the path to tell you this fact. Because of her in the lane I couldn't easily take to the path to jump hte traffic queue, which is what its there for. Petty I know, but it irked me :twisted:FCN3: Titanium Qoroz.0 -
Wrath Rob wrote:Bike lights dazzle in RP as the road is unlit, there are no cars after dark and because your eyes get used to the dark. Then any bright-ish light is going to dazzle you if its pointed directly into your eyes.
This is as much a consequence of cycling on unlit roads without lights which cast a beam as it is a consequence of other people not doing this.0 -
Always Tyred wrote:Well, I understand that you are dazzled, but I can only say that I'm baffled, since I have never been unduly dazzled by a bike light, only car (or motorcycle) headlights.
So you have been dazzled by a bike light. What's the difference between being unduly dazzled and dazzled?FCN 2-4.
"What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
"It stays down, Daddy."
"Exactly."0 -
cjcp wrote:Always Tyred wrote:Well, I understand that you are dazzled, but I can only say that I'm baffled, since I have never been unduly dazzled by a bike light, only car (or motorcycle) headlights.
So you have been dazzled by a bike light. What's the difference between being unduly dazzled and dazzled?
I said I understand that you are dazzled - i.e. I'm not suggesting that you are making this up.
There are several possible differences, though. (1) unduly dazzled = having to stop
(2) unduly dazzled = dazzled by someone behaving unreasonably or unnecessarily. For example. So, whereas I have been dazzled by cars with dipped beams coming over crests in the road, I might have been unduly dazzled by cars approaching with full beams and not turning them off in good time.0 -
Always Tyred wrote:cjcp wrote:Always Tyred wrote:Well, I understand that you are dazzled, but I can only say that I'm baffled, since I have never been unduly dazzled by a bike light, only car (or motorcycle) headlights.
So you have been dazzled by a bike light. What's the difference between being unduly dazzled and dazzled?
I said I understand that you are dazzled - i.e. I'm not suggesting that you are making this up.
There are several possible differences, though. (1) unduly dazzled = having to stop
(2) unduly dazzled = dazzled by someone behaving unreasonably or unnecessarily. For example. So, whereas I have been dazzled by cars with dipped beams coming over crests in the road, I might have been unduly dazzled by cars approaching with full beams and not turning them off in good time.
Actually, you said you (i.e. me) are dazzled.FCN 2-4.
"What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
"It stays down, Daddy."
"Exactly."0 -
cjcp wrote:Always Tyred wrote:cjcp wrote:Always Tyred wrote:Well, I understand that you are dazzled, but I can only say that I'm baffled, since I have never been unduly dazzled by a bike light, only car (or motorcycle) headlights.
So you have been dazzled by a bike light. What's the difference between being unduly dazzled and dazzled?
I said I understand that you are dazzled - i.e. I'm not suggesting that you are making this up.
There are several possible differences, though. (1) unduly dazzled = having to stop
(2) unduly dazzled = dazzled by someone behaving unreasonably or unnecessarily. For example. So, whereas I have been dazzled by cars with dipped beams coming over crests in the road, I might have been unduly dazzled by cars approaching with full beams and not turning them off in good time.
Actually, you said you (i.e. me) are dazzled.0 -
Always Tyred wrote:cjcp wrote:Always Tyred wrote:cjcp wrote:Always Tyred wrote:Well, I understand that you are dazzled, but I can only say that I'm baffled, since I have never been unduly dazzled by a bike light, only car (or motorcycle) headlights.
So you have been dazzled by a bike light. What's the difference between being unduly dazzled and dazzled?
I said I understand that you are dazzled - i.e. I'm not suggesting that you are making this up.
There are several possible differences, though. (1) unduly dazzled = having to stop
(2) unduly dazzled = dazzled by someone behaving unreasonably or unnecessarily. For example. So, whereas I have been dazzled by cars with dipped beams coming over crests in the road, I might have been unduly dazzled by cars approaching with full beams and not turning them off in good time.
Actually, you said you (i.e. me) are dazzled.
The emphasis didn't seem right, unless you also meant to emphasise the I'm baffled bit in some way, or I'm missing something through being stupid. But then I has never been good at writing.FCN 2-4.
"What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
"It stays down, Daddy."
"Exactly."0 -
I have a non-bright light on the front of my bike, and as I cycle in London my intention is for fellow road users to see me, not to light my way, so I point it near enough straight ahead. When I have gone round Richmond Park at night, I have angled it down to light up as much of the ten or so yards in front of me as its feeble beam can manage.0
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I write for a living. Doesn't mean I'm any good at it.
Does it make sense now?
I get where you are coming from. Once in a while, something crops up on the forum that genuinely takes me by surprise. Examples include the thread about ASl's and selfish cyclists using them at weekends, use of cycle helmets being detrimental to safety and therefore selfish, or pastel coloured pannier bags and the aparrent need for them.
This issue with bright cycle lights has added to that list (for me anyway) and its come up twice in recent weeks, hence, I'm thrashing out the discussion to see if there's something I've not considered.
Seems to me that pointing to the road (where any sensible person would point them) is probably okay.0 -
I aim my light slightly up to ensure I get seen, having been hit a few times by people who havn't seen me I now have a bright lights aimed around cars LOS... people have seen me easily so farPurveyor of sonic doom
Very Hairy Roadie - FCN 4
Fixed Pista- FCN 5
Beared Bromptonite - FCN 140