More fat less bonking?

linsen

Obviously you will make of this what you will :roll: , but I was actually interested in whether I am less likely to hit a "wall" on a long ride because I have good fat stores around the place.

And following on, therefore - are girl cyclists less likely to bonk than boy cyclists?

Discuss

woodyonthebeach

Personally hitting the wall is a good thing. That means the Girl friend is going to be there for you and give you that special muscle rub ;-), You all know what I'm talking about, also applies to the ladies out there.

Going back to the subject in hand. IF you can burn the fat supplies I suppose having a bit padding cant be a bad thing. So in theory the wall will hurt less if it ever comes, over all it will be dependent on how fit you are and how much preparation you have done in the first place.

Surf-Matt

So that means fat people have better endurance then?!!

Girls naturally have slightly more fat but they distribute it SO much better than any bloke can.

linsen

I'm not sure about the endurance thing - there must be a break-even point I suppose.
I guess too much fat would be counterproductive!

UnworthyPapaLazaru

I wrote a very long, rude and (in my opinion) very funny response to this post but didnt have the nerve to post it. It could also have been considered offensive.

To answer the question... Ive no idea.

linsen

chicken

woodyonthebeach

UnworthyPapaLazaru wrote:

I wrote a very long, rude and (in my opinion) very funny response to this post but didnt have the nerve to post it. It could also have been considered offensive.

To answer the question... Ive no idea.

We are not the BBC so its absolutely fine. We are all human at the end of the day.

Go for it. You know you want to. Please Im begging you now I'm still in the office make me laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

always_tyred

I don't think the time scales are right - metabolising fat into blood sugar is slow compared to the rate of usage of blood sugar during excersise.

He said, not really knowing at all but making a good fist of faking it.

Kieran_Burns

I got to say my first reaction to the post title was:


Do yer liiike ma titties?



I'm dead sexy me....

lost_in_thought

Trying to switch it to 'NO BISCUIT NO BIKING'... I see what's going on here...

gtvlusso

I am sat here - at work at 11pm at night.....all this talk of bonking is very distracting....oh, hang on, I get you...Women have much better endurance, definitely.

However, it may also be attributable to the fact that women never stop talking....

always_tyred

lost_in_thought wrote:

Trying to switch it to 'NO BISCUIT NO BIKING'... I see what's going on here...

Or NO BISCUIT NO BONKING

woodyonthebeach

No Biscuit. Now that's just plane not nice. We all need biscuits chocolate chip ones.

cjcp

What WOTB says. A bloke is more likely to bonk if he hasn't trained for the event and you have, and vice versa. And by "trained for", I mean putting the miles in and working out what nutrition and pace is right for you.

Eat and drink little and often. Food-wise, I will take any of the following during a long ride: jaffa cakes, bananas, fig rolls, energy gels, whatever is available at a cake stop.

Come on UPL!

cjcp

gtvlusso wrote:

women never stop talking....

Not even when they're asleep. They're like Terminators; they're like machines.

Stewie Griffin

I wish this theory worked. If it were true I would be able to ride distances you could only dream of as God knows I have enough ahem "long term slow release energy reserves" :oops: .

squired

Having extra fat won't make any difference, as even a slim person has some fat. Only a certain amount of fat can be metabolised at any time, so whether you have loads or a little I can't see that it would make any difference. It is not like the supply would run out even on a slim person during a ride.

Coriander

Yes.

Oh, are we talking about cycling? Then the answer's, no.

Both are in my experience.

downfader

If you eat more fats - make sure they're good fats!

Avoid your usual saturated, hydrogenated and cholesterol fats. Eating olive oils and lighter stuff is better.

Then if you look at the diet and the physiology of Sumo wrestlers (yes I am being serious here - this has been studied in depth) they can eat 20k calories a day - but little of it is anything like the kind of foods we in the west touch. Studies have shown that their bodies have, obviously, high fat reserves - but their internak organs remain largely unaffected compared to the lard-arses we have in Blighty. Some of them seeto have the internal organs of the regularly fit and healthy.

Also its been proven that heavily processed and refined foods tend to be worse for us than others. So we should be avoiding high sugars for one! I have also read that "detoxing" doesnt work and is more akin to binge drinking, lol! Detoxing is basically a myth - just eat healthily.

pbt150

Always Tyred wrote:

I don't think the time scales are right - metabolising fat into blood sugar is slow compared to the rate of usage of blood sugar during excersise.

He said, not really knowing at all but making a good fist of faking it.

Erm...not really. You can't convert fat into sugar. Fatty acids get chopped up into 2-carbon units that represent the common intermediate in all aerobic metabolism. Glucose goes through the same intermediate, but you can't make glucose from fat.

The average person has around 100,000 kcal of fat reserves, compared with around 1,000-1,500 kcal glycogen in their muscles/liver. Bonking (as far as I understand) is the severe depletion of body glycogen (sugar) reserves, so realistically is unrelated to fat stores. Your fat stores will never realistically get used up to any significant extent on a single ride, so I'm afraid carrying a few extra pounds doesn't help with endurance.

glebrus

[quote="linsen"whether I am less likely to hit a "wall" on a long ride because I have good fat stores [/quote]

No you are not. The body starts burning sugars and fat intensely as you start going. Sugars end soon, then you hit the wall. Keep eating carbs as you go, you'll be going and burning fats. (You don't need taking snacks with you when doing 1-2 hour rides, IMHO. You can go that long on what the body has.)

Did you ever hit the wall really?

greg66_tri_v2.0

If you want to avoid bonking, eating is part of the solution. The other part is taking on electrolytes. As you sweat out minerals, you lose the chemicals required to maintain metabolic processes in your cells. Electrolytes keep you topped up. Found this one out the hard way, riding on water alone.

downfader

glebrus wrote:

[quote="linsen"whether I am less likely to hit a "wall" on a long ride because I have good fat stores

Did you ever hit the wall really?[/quote]

I would imagine so - she's doing 25 miles each way. Everyone has their own "wall" afterall. (Mines prolly 15 miles )

Welcome to the forums btw

Jen J

From a running point of view 'the wall' in a marathon traditionally is supposed to kick in at around 18-20 miles, vaguely based on burning about 2000 calories. At around that point the stored glycogen runs out, and the body has to rely on fat reserves for energy.

However it is by no means inevitable. I have run 16 marathons (including 7 ultras) in the last 18 months, and have done many training runs over the marathon distance, and have never hit the wall.

Surf-Matt

I have run 16 marathons (including 7 ultras) in the last 18 months :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

jonginge

Jen J wrote:

From a running point of view 'the wall' in a marathon traditionally is supposed to kick in at around 18-20 miles, vaguely based on burning about 2000 calories. At around that point the stored glycogen runs out, and the body has to rely on fat reserves for energy.

However it is by no means inevitable. I have run 16 marathons (including 7 ultras) in the last 18 months, and have done many training runs over the marathon distance, and have never hit the wall.

Avoiding glycogen depletion is the key. Most people can store ~90-120mins worth of glycogen as fuel for moderate-high intensity exercise. Lowering intensity only delays the inevitable. As Mr 66 and glebrus say: eat, drink little and often*.

*I normally get by with bananas and SIS PSP22**
**other sports drinks are available

downfader

On sports drinks... can you still get the powdered gatorade? The bottles are nice but blimmin expensive. :?

It is also a waste of plastic.

il_principe

In short "No" In order to burn fat you need carbs: "Remember that fats burn in a carbohydrate flame; without an adequate carbohydrate supply, fat is no longer burned and protein becomes the fuel of choice."

Excellent article on it here:

Athletes who fail to refuel their tank during long training bouts may experience “the wall” and “bonking.” The average athlete who follows a carbohydrate-rich diet stores approximately 1,900 calories of carbohydrates (AKA glycogen) in their muscles and liver. The goal on longer training days is to preserve this glycogen and use the ever-so-abundant amount of fat stores we have in our body, which is equivalent to about 100,000 calories. After about an hour of exercise, our liver glycogen stores run low, causing breakdown of muscle glycogen until the point of depletion. Once muscle glycogen stores become depleted, the body dips into protein reserves, causing muscles to cramp and become vulnerable to injury. This very unpleasant phenomenon is known as “the wall” and generally occurs between mile 18 and mile 20 in a marathon or during run transition of a long-course triathlon. In order to correct this glycogen depletion in the muscles, the liver will start regenerating glucose from amino acids to be sent down to the depleted muscles. Unfortunately, this causes a shortage of glucose travelling to the brain, leading to dizziness, confusion, and lightheadedness (AKA “bonking”). Furthermore, it will severely compromise your ability to recover from the race/training bout.

In order to prevent “the wall” and “bonking” and increase our fat burning capabilities, it is essential to start refueling our tank after about an hour exercise. Remember that fats burn in a carbohydrate flame; without an adequate carbohydrate supply, fat is no longer burned and protein becomes the fuel of choice. Groundbreaking research over at the University of Texas at Austin has discovered that athletes who supplement with both high glycemic carbohydrates and protein in a 4:1 ratio may enhance endurance capability by as much as 24% when compared to athletes who supplement with only carbohydrates or water. The following equations can be used to determine your hourly calorie needs following the first 60-90 minutes of exercise:

2 calories x lean body weight in pounds

Carbohydrates should be the focus when training lasts under 2 hours. Beyond 2 hours of training, aim at consuming 1 gram of protein for every 4-7 grams of carbohydrate to help protect against premature muscle fatigue. Accelerade, a powder formula that contains a 4:1 ratio of carbohydrates and protein, was the product used in the research conducted by Dr. John Ivy over at University of Texas at Austin and can be purchased at most sports/running specialty stores. You can create your own 4-7:1 ratio by adding a teaspoon to a full tablespoon of whey or soy protein per 25 grams of carbohydrate. If a kitchen experiment sounds too complicated, customized nutrition formulas can be created by a sports nutrition company called InfinIT (www.infinitnutrition.com). If you decide a customized formula is of interest to you and would like help creating it, please free to contact me and I’ll give you some guidance on how to create your personal formulation.

DavidBelcher

woodyonthebeach wrote:

UnworthyPapaLazaru wrote:

I wrote a very long, rude and (in my opinion) very funny response to this post but didnt have the nerve to post it. It could also have been considered offensive.

To answer the question... Ive no idea.

We are not the BBC so its absolutely fine. We are all human at the end of the day.

Go for it. You know you want to. Please Im begging you now I'm still in the office make me laugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Although if this was the BBC, mention of 'the wall' unfortunately brings to mind that ropey Saturday teatime celeb gameshow and Dale Winton shouting "Bring on the wall!!!". Sorry, been watching far too much of Harry Hill and TV Burp!
On a serious note, there are a heck of a lot of variables, and I guess it depends how good the individual's body is in converting fat reserves into usable energy - "fat-burning" rides seemed to be all the rage in the cycling press's training pages a couple of years back, the keys to which seemed to be (a) moderate intensity and (b) going out early morning with no breakfast bar a black coffee (presumably 'cause it stimulates the metabolism?).

David

linsen

Well, actually I have never hit the wall, and I have power walked a marathon in 5 and a half hours (though never run one)
I read an article somewhere about how women and men access energy stores differently, concluding in fact that for women at least , not only "no biking no biscuit" but also "biking no biscuit".
I get by on bananas and SiS too, and when I toured the Isle of Wight I had some nuts.

This has stayed alarmingly on topic - well done guys!

Jen J

linsen wrote:

Well, actually I have never hit the wall, and I have power walked a marathon in 5 and a half hours (though never run one)
I read an article somewhere about how women and men access energy stores differently, concluding in fact that for women at least , not only "no biking no biscuit" but also "biking no biscuit".
I get by on bananas and SiS too, and when I toured the Isle of Wight I had some nuts.

This has stayed alarmingly on topic - well done guys!

Five and a half hours? For walking? That's a fantastic time - I've run marathons slower than that!