Dangerous and abusive bus driver

Porgy

A couple of weeks ago I had a bad experience with a bus driver, coming along behind me, who got upset when I stopped at a red light and he didn't want to. The resulting fracas resulting in him verbally and physically assaulting me (albeit with no actual injury), and leaving me shaking and upset in the middle of a busy road.

So I made a complaint - I've never done this before, I've normally calmed down enough before I get to where I'm going that I don't bother. The result below is the final reply.

My question - is this an appropriate response form the bus company? Do they really not have to tell me what action they took? How do I know they did anything at all?


"RE: complaint about dangerous and aggresive driver‏
From: **** ***** (******@metroline.co.uk)
Sent: 06 November 2008 17:17:49
To: porgy (*********@hotmail.com)
Dear Mr Porgy,
I am responding to your further e-mails. I regret I could not respond immediately as I have been out of the office for a couple of days.
I can confirm that the driver has been traced and interviewed regarding the incident by a local Manager. As a result of his findings, an appropriate course of action has been taken with the employee concerned. Please note that I am not able to divulge details of any disciplinary action taken as this is a matter that must remain confidential between ourselves and the member of staff involved.
I trust this clarifies the position to you and once again my apologies for the concern and upset you were caused that morning.
Yours sincerely
Network Support Officer"

AndyManc

Does your city have a 'Transport executive' ?

Manchester does, I would write to them if I was you, there is no reason why they shouldn't explain what measures were taken against the bus driver, you probably have ground for assault as well.

I would contact the police and say you wish to make a formal complaint, if he laid a hand on you then that's common assault.

STEFANOS4784

AndyManc wrote:

Does your city have a 'Transport executive' ?

Manchester does, I would write to them if I was you, there is no reason why they shouldn't explain what measures were taken against the bus driver, you probably have ground for assault as well.

I would contact the police and say you wish to make a formal complaint, if he laid a hand on you then that's common assault.

+1


They probably all had a laugh about it :x :evil:

AndyManc

STEFANOS4784 wrote:

AndyManc wrote:

Does your city have a 'Transport executive' ?

Manchester does, I would write to them if I was you, there is no reason why they shouldn't explain what measures were taken against the bus driver, you probably have ground for assault as well.

I would contact the police and say you wish to make a formal complaint, if he laid a hand on you then that's common assault.

+1


They probably all had a laugh about it :x :evil:

Exactly .. they would have done f*** all .

I would make a fuss ... even get the media involved.

downfader

No. Thats not a suitable reply, go to the police instead or consider legal action. You have a right to know if the guy has been sacked - and in all reality sounds like he shouldnt be working with the public if that is indeed his attitude. :?

Porgy

Thanks for that. I'm not sure I want to get the police involved but I think I might take it further with Transport for London.

downfader

IIRC bus drivers can be sent for retraining too if they cause problems. Depends on the company though

cjw

Hate to disagree with you all, but that is quite an appropriate reply.

They say they have investigated, identified and are taking action. They do not explicity state what action they are taking - as this is between the employer and the employee. If they were to publicise what they are doing, that would be a breach of confidentiality. I am sure you would like to know that they have suspended him for xxx days, stopped his pay and really given him a hard time, but that is between them. Getting the press involved will (and should) not make any difference.

Personally, I would have reported him to the police for the assault.

Question: How would a manager communicate to staff after an incident requiring discipline?

Answer:

A supervisor cannot communicate to other staff that any disciplinary action took place. The most I will ever say, if a staff member asks me privately, is that they need to trust that I am addressing any situation that occurs if I am aware of the situation. However, I honor the confidentiality of all employees, so will make no comment about any specific person or situation. (This tells them that they will receive the same confidentiality if they experience difficulties.) Mostly, you are working to create an environment in which people feel problems and issues are addressed without violating the confidentiality of any employee.

The only time I might do something differently, or additionally, occurs when an employee is fired and another employee comes to me seeking to understand why so that he or she does not make the same mistakes. Then, I simply help them list what it takes to be a good employee and if they have one, review their performance development plan. I don't address the fired employee's issues at all.

The above from the Human Resources web site about communication within the company... let alone outside.

cheehee

downfader wrote:

IIRC bus drivers can be sent for retraining too if they cause problems. Depends on the company though

They train them......? :shock: ......

canada16

I agree with cjw.

Trust me they do not get away with stuff like that, and most busses have tamper proof cams on them so they prob looked at it.

If it showed he got off the bus, which it should, trust me he has prob been sacked.

But they cannot tell you as its private info. DPA

You have a right to comp though and I would get some cash to do up your bike or take the missus and kids out or whatever, trust me they would be glad to shut you up and put it all behind them, as if it went to court and it showed him hitting you they would be in further sh!t

Porgy

cjw wrote:

Personally, I would have reported him to the police for the assault.

Perhaps I should have done, however I've had such bad experiences trying to deal with the police that I've given up.

Porgy

bloody computer!!... posted twice - oooops

Porgy

canada16 wrote:

If it showed he got off the bus, which it should, trust me he has prob been sacked.

He didn't get off the bus - he drove the bus into me while I was talking to him.

spen666

cjw wrote:

Hate to disagree with you all, but that is quite an appropriate reply.

They say they have investigated, identified and are taking action. They do not explicity state what action they are taking - as this is between the employer and the employee. If they were to publicise what they are doing, that would be a breach of confidentiality.

I disagree with you on several counts.
1. There is no duty of confidentiality on the bus company
2. Even if there were, to say we have done X to a bus driver does not breach that as the driver has not been identified
3. consider the situation if a court refused to tell the victim of a crime what the punishment given to an offender was
4. This reply does not even state if the company accept the incident took place

I am sure you would like to know that they have suspended him for xxx days, stopped his pay and really given him a hard time, but that is between them. Getting the press involved will (and should) not make any difference.

Personally, I would have reported him to the police for the assault.

Question: How would a manager communicate to staff after an incident requiring discipline?

Answer:

A supervisor cannot communicate to other staff that any disciplinary action took place. The most I will ever say, if a staff member asks me privately, is that they need to trust that I am addressing any situation that occurs if I am aware of the situation. However, I honor the confidentiality of all employees, so will make no comment about any specific person or situation. (This tells them that they will receive the same confidentiality if they experience difficulties.) Mostly, you are working to create an environment in which people feel problems and issues are addressed without violating the confidentiality of any employee.

The only time I might do something differently, or additionally, occurs when an employee is fired and another employee comes to me seeking to understand why so that he or she does not make the same mistakes. Then, I simply help them list what it takes to be a good employee and if they have one, review their performance development plan. I don't address the fired employee's issues at all.

The above from the Human Resources web site about communication within the company... let alone outside.

spen666

canada16 wrote:

I agree with cjw.

Trust me they do not get away with stuff like that, and most busses have tamper proof cams on them so they prob looked at it.

If it showed he got off the bus, which it should, trust me he has prob been sacked.

But they cannot tell you as its private info. DPA

Nonsense - which part of the Data Protection Act prevents you notifying the complainant of the outcome of their complaint.

The citing of the DPA is a cop out to avoid doing anything - the DPA does not prevent this

You have a right to comp though and I would get some cash to do up your bike or take the missus and kids out or whatever, trust me they would be glad to shut you up and put it all behind them, as if it went to court and it showed him hitting you they would be in further sh!t

ianfranklin

Used to be a department called the traffic commisioners who controlled/regulated PCV licences. Name may have changed now but local police should be able to give details.

cjw

spen666 wrote:

cjw wrote:

Hate to disagree with you all, but that is quite an appropriate reply.

They say they have investigated, identified and are taking action. They do not explicity state what action they are taking - as this is between the employer and the employee. If they were to publicise what they are doing, that would be a breach of confidentiality.

I disagree with you on several counts.
1. There is no duty of confidentiality on the bus company
2. Even if there were, to say we have done X to a bus driver does not breach that as the driver has not been identified
3. consider the situation if a court refused to tell the victim of a crime what the punishment given to an offender was
4. This reply does not even state if the company accept the incident took place

I am sure you would like to know that they have suspended him for xxx days, stopped his pay and really given him a hard time, but that is between them. Getting the press involved will (and should) not make any difference.

Personally, I would have reported him to the police for the assault.

Question: How would a manager communicate to staff after an incident requiring discipline?

Answer:

A supervisor cannot communicate to other staff that any disciplinary action took place. The most I will ever say, if a staff member asks me privately, is that they need to trust that I am addressing any situation that occurs if I am aware of the situation. However, I honor the confidentiality of all employees, so will make no comment about any specific person or situation. (This tells them that they will receive the same confidentiality if they experience difficulties.) Mostly, you are working to create an environment in which people feel problems and issues are addressed without violating the confidentiality of any employee.

The only time I might do something differently, or additionally, occurs when an employee is fired and another employee comes to me seeking to understand why so that he or she does not make the same mistakes. Then, I simply help them list what it takes to be a good employee and if they have one, review their performance development plan. I don't address the fired employee's issues at all.

The above from the Human Resources web site about communication within the company... let alone outside.

Spen666...

Clearly you are not familiar with employment law...

1. There is an implied duty of confidentiality in all employment contracts (Dalgleish vs Lothian police and other cases) - this works both ways both confidentiality of the employee towards the employer and from the employer towards the employee.

2. see above...they no doubt consider their is sufficuent information to identify the driver

3. no need to consider a court case, as these are held in public with published records of judgements

4. Not sure the point you are making, in the case I have quoted from the HR professionals, they advise not admitting a disciplinary case is underway.

cjw

Porgy wrote:

canada16 wrote:

If it showed he got off the bus, which it should, trust me he has prob been sacked.

He didn't get off the bus - he drove the bus into me while I was talking to him.

Bloody hell :shock:

rubbercolin

Fact

The bus opco has no obligation to divulge the outcome of any disciplinary investigation. Are we certain that they have admitted liability ? What proof of this exists ?
Do you really think they would admit such and then sit back and wait for a claim?

The OP should report to the Police and TfL and request [in writing to the bus co] that any CCTV is secured and held for investigation, following the collision.

The bus company identified by the OP has CCTV fitted to all of its service fleet. The images remain stored on a HDD on the bus for 7-10 days depending on bus run time.

A specific person would have replied -- why not identify them and their function?

Name and shame if you want a reaction from a bus company entirely dependednt on TfL for its £100m + a year income

Nasty experience - sorry to hear about it

always_tyred

Porgy wrote:

A couple of weeks ago I had a bad experience with a bus driver, coming along behind me, who got upset when I stopped at a red light and he didn't want to. The resulting fracas resulting in him verbally and physically assaulting me (albeit with no actual injury), and leaving me shaking and upset in the middle of a busy road.

So I made a complaint - I've never done this before, I've normally calmed down enough before I get to where I'm going that I don't bother. The result below is the final reply.

My question - is this an appropriate response form the bus company? Do they really not have to tell me what action they took? How do I know they did anything at all?


"RE: complaint about dangerous and aggresive driver‏
From: **** ***** (******@metroline.co.uk)
Sent: 06 November 2008 17:17:49
To: porgy (*********@hotmail.com)
Dear Mr Porgy,
I am responding to your further e-mails. I regret I could not respond immediately as I have been out of the office for a couple of days.
I can confirm that the driver has been traced and interviewed regarding the incident by a local Manager. As a result of his findings, an appropriate course of action has been taken with the employee concerned. Please note that I am not able to divulge details of any disciplinary action taken as this is a matter that must remain confidential between ourselves and the member of staff involved.
I trust this clarifies the position to you and once again my apologies for the concern and upset you were caused that morning.
Yours sincerely
Network Support Officer"

Was this a First Group bus?

I have an identical letter filed somewhere.

What do you want out of this? My guess is that you want to know that something has come of it and the driver has been, within the terms of his employment, disciplined. I think that this has ocurred and that the letter is standard, but is not indicative of nothing having been done.

Porgy

Always Tyred wrote:

Was this a First Group bus?

What do you want out of this? My guess is that you want to know that something has come of it and the driver has been, within the terms of his employment, disciplined. I think that this has ocurred and that the letter is standard, but is not indicative of nothing having been done.

It's a Metroline bus. I'm not looking for compensation or anything like that - I wasn't hurt, and after checking the bike, can't see any damage other than that which was done by a Merc driver a few weeks earlier.

When the driver was verbally abusing me he I told him I was going to complain. He said go on then with a smug look on his face - his attitude was - see if I care. This was what decided me. The man was clearly unrepentent, had it in for cyclists, and probably a regular offender. Ideally I'd like him off the road, and I'm hoping that with this on his record, either he changes his attitude or the next time he does it he's out.

Or am I naive?

always_tyred

Porgy wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

Was this a First Group bus?

What do you want out of this? My guess is that you want to know that something has come of it and the driver has been, within the terms of his employment, disciplined. I think that this has ocurred and that the letter is standard, but is not indicative of nothing having been done.

It's a Metroline bus. I'm not looking for compensation or anything like that - I wasn't hurt, and after checking the bike, can't see any damage other than that which was done by a Merc driver a few weeks earlier.

When the driver was verbally abusing me he I told him I was going to complain. He said go on then with a smug look on his face - his attitude was - see if I care. This was what decided me. The man was clearly unrepentent, had it in for cyclists, and probably a regular offender. Ideally I'd like him off the road, and I'm hoping that with this on his record, either he changes his attitude or the next time he does it he's out.

Or am I naive?

I think you did the right thing. I don't think he'll dislike cyclists any less, but its how he drives isn't it? If the equation is - attempt to kill a cyclist = get shouted at by shift manager, providing he doesn't attempt to kill a cyclist, job done.