Steel frames.

JWSurrey

Problem with carbon is that, according to what i've heard, the slightest hairline fracture can lead to very sudden and total failure.
However, I would be a hypocrite if I said that one should steer clear of carbon, as I have forks and stays on one of my rides made of carbon.

mm1

Currently have 5 steel framed bikes:

Burls TT & Roberts road (both custom built - complete bikes 1 with chorus, 1 with centaur cheaper than many carbon frames);

Condor Acciao - factory built frame with old chorus unded down from the Roberts

Pompino single speed

Inbred MTB

Plus an "undersize" Pete Matthews Columbus SL road frame that served as a TT frame prior to the Burls.

All ride differently- Roberts very comfortable, Condor taughter (would be an ideal crit bike if I could ride crits), all great bikes and affordable. Incidentally my "previous" best bike (531C) lasted 23 years before it died - this included resprays and having frame cold set to accept wider standard for rear hubs etc. I know aluminuium doesn't last as long because the Reynolds frame outlived all of the contemporary frames that my mates owned. Too early to say about carbon, but i have my doubts about it lasting 20+ years.

acorn_user

There are a lot of nice steel frames about. The issue is that few of them are available built up as stock bikes. This means you have to do things the old way; buy a frame and then fit it out with parts yourself or have the shop do it. If you go to the Ceeway website, there is a long list of framebuilders on it. You will probably find one near you. Otherwise, most of the smaller Italian makes still have a steel frame or two in their ranges, although many of those are Deda EOM and are not cheap.

Cheap frames - Bob Jackson, Woodrup, Simoncini, Vetta + a few others
More expensive - Viner, Rourke etc...

Ken Night

salsarider79 wrote:

Salsa does some very lovely bikes .....................I'm saving to buy http://www.salsacycles.com/archive/primero.html
It is possibly the most beautiful bike on the planet. 853 steel, weighing in (with Roval wheels, S-Works bar and stem, bottle cages, Look Keo pedals and full SRAM Rival kit) at just under 8kg or 17.6lbs...............

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.......whatever the American trend towards longer headtubes achieves, I feel it doesn't add anything to the looks of a bike.

The aggressively compact Giant frames look nice, but the Salsa range does nothing for me. I concede the bike would look better with SRAM Rival and I'm sure it will ride well and be a pleasure to own

Here is an article I find inspiring
http://www.torelli.com/tech/material.shtml

Like many here (well, we wouldn't be reading the thread if we didn't like steel, would we?) I like steel frames.
My early 90's 'Nago is very stiff, more stiff than most bikes I've ridden-but with soft riding steel forks

I have a mid 90's Raleigh 853 race frame which is a joy to ride-very supple, and probaby too flexible for a really good race bike, but a dream to ride

. In between is a mid 90's Massi with a teardrop downtube, which you'd think would be very stiff, but is very compliant. It has very very stiff forks, and I'm not sure that helps the ride-I've often thought of replacing them with carbon, but refrained as they go with the bike

I have two Ti frames-one of which rides better than all three steel bikes

As Steve mentions above, tape and tyres count for a lot, but you've got to start with a good frame, and here is my tip to the OP: whatever frame material you choose, ride lots and lots of different bikes before you splash out on a really high end frame, so you get both the material and geometry you'll be happy with for a long time of ownership

JWSurrey

mm1 wrote:

........(531C) lasted 23 years before it died - this included resprays and having frame cold set to accept wider standard for rear hubs etc. .....

Out of interest, did it fail at the dropouts? My LBS were very negative about cold setting my old 531 ride for this reason - so I did it myself!

Onan

Ken Night wrote:

here is my tip to the OP: whatever frame material you choose, ride lots and lots of different bikes before you splash out on a really high end frame, so you get both the material and geometry you'll be happy with for a long time of ownership

Oh good god, if I ever splash out on a really high end frame, and it's doubtful, it won't be for a very long time. But I see your point. Even if I could afford to invest a large amount of money now, it wouldn't be sensible to do so.

Out of curiosity, has anyone here built up bikes themselves using second hand frames? Does it end up being worth it, or do you end up spending twice as much as if you bought a brand new complete bike with a similar spec?

Ken Night

Ken Night wrote:

..........here is my tip to the OP: whatever frame material you choose, ride lots and lots of different bikes before you splash out on a really high end frame, so you get both the material and geometry you'll be happy with for a long time of ownership

Onan, I should have qualified this-you don't need to "splash out on a high end frame".

It's possible to buy a frame with the right ride characteristics, new, relatively cheaply

One poster above has identified frame builders at different levels, and there is always the possibility of buying second hand (my 853 frame came to me with a top end headset and forks, for around £100)

Buying a high end frame is as much a commitment to getting the best there is (available to many, at around £1000-cheap compared other hobbies-car, shotgun, racehorse or even a holiday), as it is to securing the technical features that make a frame, light, efficient, comfortable or even beautiful

Of course, an advantage of owning a nice bike, is that you can use it from your front door, for free, unlike the other sports

meagain

That Salsa Primero is IMO indeed lovely.
As implied by many, the cost of a GOOD steel frame is really only justified by a likely long term ownership. Apart from having a very short attention/interest span (very few bikes stay with me longer than a few months!), I ain't going to be pedalling for more than 4-5 years tops. So I buy what amuses/suits me in the short term and then move on...
Were I planning a long term relationship, it would be Ti for me, not steel.

mm1

JWSurrey wrote:

mm1 wrote:

........(531C) lasted 23 years before it died - this included resprays and having frame cold set to accept wider standard for rear hubs etc. .....

Out of interest, did it fail at the dropouts? My LBS were very negative about cold setting my old 531 ride for this reason - so I did it myself!

No, down tube cracked, the crack started at one of the gear lever braze-ons. I guess I could easliy have had the tube replaced, but bought the Condor frame instead and transferred the groupset (Chorus 9 speed). This frame started off as a real "10 speed" 5 speed regina block; suntour ultra 6; campag 8 speed;campag 9 speed ergo - maybe it would have been good to have seen it through ergo 10 and 11. Frame was bought from Richmond cycles in 1985, so no idea who built it. Rumour says it was an Orbit, but Pete always used to deny this.

Frame ends got bashed out of track by baggage handlers a few times and alway went back to straight, cold-setting the rear end nothing by comparison. I've seen a few chromed / drilled ends crack mind.

W5454

My Woodrup 531C Fastback had it's 25th birthday this year.If anything bad happened to it I would be gutted.