London Cabs - What to do?

pintoo

I could go into details about how a cabbie just tried to ram me off the road -deliberately - this morning. I could list a damning schedule of close encounters with cab drivers. I could just rant, but I won't. Here's the thing - calling them names and saying what a bunch of [fill in your favoured expression] they are won't change anything. What can we do about the utter lack of road courtesy that cabs show to other road users. I'm equally frustrated with them whether I'm in a car, riding a bike, riding a motorbike, in a bus, whatever. They are consistently the most obnixious and dangerous people on the roads. Today's incident could have left me dead - I am not exaggerating. I didn't get the plate number and even if I had, I have to say that I doubt anything would come from reporting it without a witness. And most peds aren't going to take a cyclist's side regardless of what's happened.

I don't think that we can change things by ranting, or by demanding rights for cyclists if we don't, as a group acknowledge our responsibilities as road users also (something I don't see from all cyclists). So - things are only getting worse, not better. How do we fix it?

I genuinely believe that:
1. every road user in motorised transport should re-take their test every 10ish years and top-up with additional advanced driving lessons.
2. every scooterist needs to take a minimum 3 day course on road safety, not the 1 day CBT
3. there should be "mystery shoppers" taking London cabs to shop any who drive badly. This should be funded by the cabs' association rather than the effort they put into anti-competitive practices and scare-mongering ads.
4. cyclists should be more courteous road users, so that when we do lose our tempers, it's justified. Raging at every ped who accidentally steps out into the road is pointless, but raging at someone who decides to play "chicken" is justified.

I'm not saying my list is right, and I'm conscious that it adds additional cost to most road users, but what price safety? Not just for ourselves, but for everyone. And what's more, if more people knew proper road use, it would spread as a benevolent ripple. Bad road use, I believe, spreads in the same way.

I'm desperate to propose something constructive to BoJo. Can we get some ideas together?

Eat My Dust

pintoo wrote:

there should be "mystery shoppers" taking London cabs to shop any who drive badly.

I really like this idea, I can imagine it would however not go down too well with the cabbies!

Clever Pun

Are we talking black or mini cabs as they are two very different breeds in my experience

please don't use "BoJo" it's infuriating enough he got elected

Eat My Dust

Clever Pun wrote:

please don't use "BoJo" it's infuriating enough he got elected

"BoJo" actually makes me smile, it sounds like "Baw Jaws" which was always a favourite insult when I was younger and growing up in Fife.

hondafanatic

Who or what is 'BoJo'?

chuckcork

hondafanatic wrote:

Who or what is 'BoJo'?

Mayor of London, short for his name.

boybiker

I had a taxi try to run me off the road this week, shouting obscenities and so on, I reported him to the police and they seemed genuinely interested. They said do you want to make a formal complaint so I said yes, everyone says that if the police do take it seriously enough to talk to his firm then he will lose his license and frankly I hope he does.
Southampton is getting worse, its full of chavs and there are a lot of dangerous drivers either uninsured, drunk or on drugs or all three.

always_tyred

Eat My Dust wrote:

pintoo wrote:

there should be "mystery shoppers" taking London cabs to shop any who drive badly.

I really like this idea, I can imagine it would however not go down too well with the cabbies!

I was in a cab recently and the driver just suddenly started going on about how he hated cyclists in ASL's who wobbled all over the place doing those track stands (he didn't know what a track stand was, but conveyed to me that this was his gripe). He just hated that they looked like they might fall over and you just oculdn't tell.

So I said, "Why? Would you be forced to drive over them if they fell over?".

Fortunately it was a relatively short time before I arrived at my destination. It became very cold in the cab and I didn't have my coat.

biondino

To be fair I can't watch ice dancing in case they fall over, or showjumping in case they hit a barrier, so I can see where he's coming from.

By the way, the cabbie who was a nob to me last week was 11611 if anyone sees him at it again. I haven't reported him.

JGS

I often go to London for meetings and hate having to take taxis. I quite frequently point out to the driver that they nearly ran over a cyclist or two, and you'd be amazed at how sheepish they get.

That said there are a lot of quite feral messengers who shoot through tiny gaps and scream and shout all the time, so if you were driving a cab for 10 hours a day and don't really know the difference I expect you would treat all cyclists like dirt.

I know that if I was living in London I would commute with a helmet cam on, not a cheap or particularly great solution, but at least you would have a good peice of evidence (provided you survived!).

Jen J

biondino wrote:

To be fair I can't watch ice dancing in case they fall over, or showjumping in case they hit a barrier, so I can see where he's coming from.

Don't worry, Showjumping is fine, the pole falls and the horsie is fine - it's the Cross Country you need to be scared of. :evil:

And I can't watch any form of ice-skating since I saw that youtube link a couple of weeks ago where the goalies neck gets sliced open by an opponent's blade :shock:

Eat My Dust

My brother was in a cab when the driver nearly wiped out a cyclist and made a joke about wanting to run the him over. My brother replied "My brother's a cyclist and he'd probably of smacked you on the mouth for saying that" He said the cabbie went VERY quiet!!

pintoo

In answer to the question above - I was refering to Black Cabs. I don't know if I could tell a private hire cab from any other car unless it has some livery on it anyway. In particular, I find the "traditional" London cab a pretty horrible thing. I don't have prejudices, but I sincerely hate them for so many reasons. I refuse to tip them - it's not like they pay income tax on what they earn anyway. Anyway, I didn't want to get into a rant - I really want to know how to redress this balance. They seem to think they have more rights on the road than everyone else.

el_presidente

I too have been rammed by a cab but we need to be careful not to give into the temptation to stereotype and generalise. So, in the interests of balance, here is a true story.

Me & the missus had been out for dinner and jumped in a cab to go home as it was late & we were miles from the tube. The cab was obviously new and had that "new car smell" so I commented to the cabby, "yes" he said "just picked it up today and you're my very first fare"

Thought nothing of it and we arrived home with about £25 on the meter. I reached for the wallet "put that away guv" said the driver. "Old cabby tradition - first fare travels for free, brings good luck". I protested but he insisted that there was no charge, suggested I give the money to charity instead (which I duly did).

This sounds like the world's cheesiest urban myth but I swear it happened to me. Superb tradition imho

Greg T

pintoo wrote:

I don't know if I could tell a private hire cab from any other car unless it has some livery on it anyway.

Private hire cars are easy to spot, they are a good 30 centimetres closer when they squeeze you for the gap, will be a knackered mercedes that smells of dry cleaning and sweat and if, when you get knocked off by them you take time out from bleeding to have a look in the boot, you'll find the abduction kit, gaffer tape, zip ties, gloves etc etc....

I've had some cabbies take me too close and one enforce his "right of way" across the Cable St bike lane across me but I don't have more trouble with them than with other road users.

In fact the group that are shitting me more than any other at the moment are fecking cyclists.

LISTEN YOU LOT.

I leave that two foot of room on the inside as my bail out space, not so that you can use it to get in front of me at the lights, I swear to GOD if one of you undertakes me on the left hander going round into parliament Sq again i'm going to start swinging.

Rudd

I often get black cabs in london and am often aghast at the near misses the driver has with cyclists/waiting in ASL/not giving enough room. I find the following solution works. Just after you hand over the fare ( might be wise to be outside at this point )

Cabbie : 'that will be £xxx please'

Passenger: 'there you go,' (give exact money).

Passenger: 'I normally tip cabbies but given you { insert description of driving crime} no tip for you fella!'

Hit them in their pockets, if more people did this they might be more considerate.

Rudd

I often get black cabs in london and am often aghast at the near misses the driver has with cyclists/waiting in ASL/not giving enough room. I find the following solution works. Just after you hand over the fare ( might be wise to be outside at this point )

Cabbie : 'that will be £xxx please'

Passenger: 'there you go,' (give exact money).

Passenger: 'I normally tip cabbies but given you { insert description of driving crime} no tip for you fella!'

Hit them in their pockets, if more people did this they might be more considerate.

Rudd

I often get black cabs in london and am often aghast at the near misses the driver has with cyclists/waiting in ASL/not giving enough room. I find the following solution works. Just after you hand over the fare ( might be wise to be outside at this point )

Cabbie : 'that will be £xxx please'

Passenger: 'there you go,' (give exact money).

Passenger: 'I normally tip cabbies but given you { insert description of driving crime} no tip for you fella!'

Hit them in their pockets, if more people did this they might be more considerate.

chuckcork

Greg T wrote:

LISTEN YOU LOT.

I leave that two foot of room on the inside as my bail out space, not so that you can use it to get in front of me at the lights, I swear to GOD if one of you undertakes me on the left hander going round into parliament Sq again i'm going to start swinging.

Wobble a little is the advice I would give.

Greg T

chuckcork wrote:

Wobble a little is the advice I would give.

I'm all over the place, A superheated atom of hydrogen in a low pressure environment has a more predictable trajectory than me - and still I have guys trusting me enough to get real close at slow speeds.

I' can't trackstand you idiot, feck off and give me space to fall off.

lost_in_thought

Greg T wrote:

chuckcork wrote:

Wobble a little is the advice I would give.

I'm all over the place, A superheated atom of hydrogen in a low pressure environment has a more predictable trajectory than me - and still I have guys trusting me enough to get real close at slow speeds.

I' can't trackstand you idiot, feck off and give me space to fall off.

I got cut up on the SheBu roundabout today by some eejit on a shopper bike, had to slam the anchors on in order to miss him. Less than ideal location for cycling like a prat. :x

Littigator

I had some terminal nutjob on a bike overtake between me and the cab who'd given me 3 microns of space as we exited east over the roundabout from Lambeth Bridge towards Parliament Square.

My (I thought very restrained) comment of "Errrr nice place to overtake mate!" didn't even elicit a glance ......

PR*CK!

wgwarburton

Greg T writes:

> LISTEN YOU LOT.
> I leave that two foot of room on the inside as my bail out space, not so that you can use it to get in front of me at the lights, I swear to GOD if one of you undertakes me on the left hander going round into parliament Sq again i'm going to start swinging.

Greg, the answer is right at your fingertips...

Next time someone starts undertaking, indicate left...

Assertively.

Then apologise profusely for smacking them in the face... didn't occur to you that someone would be so close...especially on the inside... etc.

Cheers,
W.

lost_in_thought

WGWarburton wrote:

Greg, the answer is right at your fingertips...

Next time someone starts undertaking, indicate left...

Assertively.

Then apologise profusely for smacking them in the face... didn't occur to you that someone would be so close...especially on the inside... etc.

Jen J

WGWarburton wrote:

Next time someone starts undertaking, indicate left...

Assertively.

Then apologise profusely for smacking them in the face... didn't occur to you that someone would be so close...especially on the inside... etc.

Cheers,
W.

Like it . And if I was able to indicate left properly without (unintentionally) wobbling, I would do that. :oops:

As far as intentional wobbling is concerned, before I started biking I read City Commuting by Richard Ballantine (?) and he advocates a little bit of wobbling in some situations as the driver that was about to give you no room will suddenly get protective of their paint job and give you a wide berth...

Feltup

Jen J wrote:

As far as intentional wobbling is concerned, before I started biking I read City Commuting by Richard Ballantine (?) and he advocates a little bit of wobbling in some situations as the driver that was about to give you no room will suddenly get protective of their paint job and give you a wide berth...

My uncle used to swear by this technique too. It does seem to work but you have to be on a road where the differential speeds are low enough that you give the car a chance to react or you will end up like the pheasant I saw today.

spen666

pintoo wrote:

I could go into details about how a cabbie just tried to ram me off the road -deliberately - this morning. I could list a damning schedule of close encounters with cab drivers. I could just rant, but I won't. Here's the thing - calling them names and saying what a bunch of [fill in your favoured expression] they are won't change anything. What can we do about the utter lack of road courtesy that cabs show to other road users. I'm equally frustrated with them whether I'm in a car, riding a bike, riding a motorbike, in a bus, whatever. They are consistently the most obnixious and dangerous people on the roads. Today's incident could have left me dead - I am not exaggerating. I didn't get the plate number and even if I had, I have to say that I doubt anything would come from reporting it without a witness. And most peds aren't going to take a cyclist's side regardless of what's happened.
....

Why do you think that is?

Could it be because they "hate" cyclists because of the law breaking selfish attitude of some of the said cyclisrts?

Its a classic example of how the selfish self centered attitude of some cyclists is getting all of us a bad name and doing us no favours

Sewinman

WGWarburton wrote:

Greg T writes:

> LISTEN YOU LOT.
> I leave that two foot of room on the inside as my bail out space, not so that you can use it to get in front of me at the lights, I swear to GOD if one of you undertakes me on the left hander going round into parliament Sq again i'm going to start swinging.

Greg, the answer is right at your fingertips...

Next time someone starts undertaking, indicate left...

Assertively.

Then apologise profusely for smacking them in the face... didn't occur to you that someone would be so close...especially on the inside... etc.

Cheers,
W.

That happened to me but it was a van, opening his door....not nice.

Are we arguing that cyclists should not filter to the left of stationary traffic?

biondino

I filtered to the right this morning as an experiment and it was terrifying - judging when you need to pull over, trying not to wobble as cars zoom past, and surprising drivers who were looking to turn right. I'll go back to the left, I think.

pintoo

spen666 wrote:

pintoo wrote:

I could go into details about how a cabbie just tried to ram me off the road -deliberately - this morning. I could list a damning schedule of close encounters with cab drivers. I could just rant, but I won't. Here's the thing - calling them names and saying what a bunch of [fill in your favoured expression] they are won't change anything. What can we do about the utter lack of road courtesy that cabs show to other road users. I'm equally frustrated with them whether I'm in a car, riding a bike, riding a motorbike, in a bus, whatever. They are consistently the most obnixious and dangerous people on the roads. Today's incident could have left me dead - I am not exaggerating. I didn't get the plate number and even if I had, I have to say that I doubt anything would come from reporting it without a witness. And most peds aren't going to take a cyclist's side regardless of what's happened.
....

Why do you think that is?

Could it be because they "hate" cyclists because of the law breaking selfish attitude of some of the said cyclisrts?

Its a classic example of how the selfish self centered attitude of some cyclists is getting all of us a bad name and doing us no favours

Quite. That's precisely what I mean re. the benevolent ripple. We can't expect courtesy if we try and excuse our own collective bad habits - even if they are a misperception (which I don't believe they are, in truth). However, there's also the issue of vulnerability. Someone else mentioned that drivers will create space if they think your wobble might mean dangerfor their paintwork. I believe this, but I simultaneously find it unbelievable. Surely I'm not the only driver in the UK who worries for the safety of other road users above and beyond the finish of my car?

I know I betrayed my own prejudice in an earlier post which I'm a little embarrassed about, but honestly... I fear for my safety and most times, it's cabbies who inspire that fear.

Eat My Dust

biondino wrote:

I filtered to the right this morning as an experiment and it was terrifying - judging when you need to pull over, trying not to wobble as cars zoom past, and surprising drivers who were looking to turn right. I'll go back to the left, I think.

Complete opposite to me. I am happy on the right but really hate undertaking. Saying that I've had 4 collisions. 2 overtaking and 2 undertaking!