Chris Hoy BBC Sports Personality of the year - NOT Hamilton

Mettan

eh wrote:

Hamilton has an arguably more difficult job that involves just as much work.

WTF? Hamilton has a drive in one of only four cars capable of winning the overall title and his races last about 2hr 30.

Fully agree with eh's sentiment, on this - only 2 cars (teams) were capable of winning this years title......... and....... Lewis had one of them ......... (Mclaren) - Ferrari being the other. Lewis clearly performed consistently well throughout the year though (and handled the pressure) - credit to him for that. He's certainly a worthy winner of this years F1 Championship.

Parsnip49

Shows how little you know about F1 then, if Kubica had done a bit less crap at Brazil, he would have been 3rd. Plus, the top 5 was made up of 4 different cars...

Massa and Hamilton were miles ahead of everyone - maybe they are just good drivers???

You also seem to neglect that Kovalinen was in the same car as Hamilton and finished 7th


Its totally irrelevant, but im willing to bet that an F1 driver would be better on a bike than a pro peloton rider would in an F1 car.

robthehungrymonkey

eh wrote:

Hamilton has an arguably more difficult job that involves just as much work.

WTF? Hamilton has a drive in one of only four cars capable of winning the overall title and his races last about 2hr 30. Compare that to Cav who in the TDF started with approximatly 200 riders (hard to determine a % in with a chance of winning a particular stage) and raced for over a week for about 7hrs a day, including some nice big mountins to get over, yet still took 4 stage wins.

Don't get me wrong F1 drivers are fit guys and people like Prost and Webber have also stuck in quick times at bike races like the Etape and 24hr MTB, but to say Hamiltons job is more difficult is bizarre, it like comparing chalk and cheese.

What I am getting at is that 2hr 30 in an F1 car is about as intense and difficult as it gets. A mountain tour de france stage is about as physical a challenge anywhere in any sport. But it's not all about physical stamina.

Vivid

Hamilton will be getting my vote.

sheepworryingbhoy

Personally I think members of the GB Paralympic Team deserve all the recognition this year....

spen666

pneumatic wrote:

Hamilton will get the individual award

Team GB cycling will get team of the year (consolation prize and not subject to a public vote, as I recall)

The whole thing's always been a bit dodgy anyway, epitomised by the horsey royal winner a couple of years back. There are no proper criteria to judge a winner by. It's just another big TV love-in for TV people and their mates. I stopped watching it years ago.

Wouldn't suprise me if it goes to the whole Olympic team - not cycling

BigG67

spen666 wrote:

pneumatic wrote:

Hamilton will get the individual award

Team GB cycling will get team of the year (consolation prize and not subject to a public vote, as I recall)

The whole thing's always been a bit dodgy anyway, epitomised by the horsey royal winner a couple of years back. There are no proper criteria to judge a winner by. It's just another big TV love-in for TV people and their mates. I stopped watching it years ago.

Wouldn't suprise me if it goes to the whole Olympic team - not cycling

I agree that the whole personality arguement is old hat and ultimately pointless, but the team one does get me wound up.

Team GB isn't a team, in that they don't work together in the same discipline with the aim of helping each other.

Football, cricket, rugby...obviously are, Davis Cup, Ryder Cup less so but again the individual performances mean nothing unless the team win. Team GB, British Cycling, British Sailing just aren't a team to me.

I'm sure that Hoy is happy for Romero that she won but is more concerned with his performance and he got his medals regardless of how Wiggins and Cav did in the Madison.

As an aside I'd say McLaren are a team, but finishing 2nd doesn't deserve an award. Oh, and Hamilton will walk the individual because more people like and care about F1 than like and care about competitive cycling.

Monty Dog

Of course Hamilton could do a Rossi - ditch McLaren, get in a Red Bull or any other backmarker and try and win the championship - now that would be an achievement! Frankly, F1 is too much of a marketing circus to be seriously considered as a sport - the driver probably only accounts for a small percentage of the winning effect - I expect quite a few of the drivers if they were sat in that car would have won.

dsmiff

Monty Dog wrote:

Of course Hamilton could do a Rossi - ditch McLaren, get in a Red Bull or any other backmarker and try and win the championship - now that would be an achievement! Frankly, F1 is too much of a marketing circus to be seriously considered as a sport - the driver probably only accounts for a small percentage of the winning effect - I expect quite a few of the drivers if they were sat in that car would have won.

So why do they pay the driver so much if he has so little contribution to make?

eh

"What I am getting at is that 2hr 30 in an F1 car is about as intense and difficult as it gets."

Ever been involved in a bunch race sprint finish?

Parsnip49 you can't seriously believe Kubica was in with a chance of the Championship?Even his team didn't, hence their decision to stop work on the car in the summer and move onto the 2009 one.

Oh and I agree Team GB isn't a team and neither is British Cycling, but that does then make the team pick a little difficult.

passout

Hamilton deserves it as FI is a much more significant (and in may ways harder) sport. Also for his age and raw potential he is amazing...I think the comparisons to Ali are a little premature but he has the potential to be a sporting great. The only cyclist to become a sporting great IMO was Armstrong. Indurain. Mercx, Hoy & a handful of others deserve a mention but they are not in the same league. Remember it sports personality and fame/reputation is all.

Monty Dog

If you want to watch real 'racing' in motorsports, watch MotoGP or Superbikes, not a prolonged procession for expensive technology where everyone wets themselves because somebody passes another - the cars would probably go faster if they ditched the impetuous drivers and put in an autopilot!
If you sycophantic F1 fanboys want to go and cream yourselves over Hamilton, feel free to go to www.prepubescentpetrolheads.com and leave the real sports fans in peace!

Tom Butcher

passout wrote:

Hamilton deserves it as FI is a much more significant (and in may ways harder) sport. Also for his age and raw potential he is amazing...I think the comparisons to Ali are a little premature but he has the potential to be a sporting great. The only cyclist to become a sporting great IMO was Armstrong. Indurain. Mercx, Hoy & a handful of others deserve a mention but they are not in the same league. Remember it sports personality and fame/reputation is all.

Merckx - I knew about Merckx when I was a kid and I'd never ridden a road bike or heard of any other cyclist.

A quick google shows he came 7th in a reuters poll of sports journos for sports personality of the century. http://www.nadiacomaneci.com/library/article132.htm

LangerDan

Monty Dog wrote:

If you want to watch real 'racing' in motorsports, watch MotoGP or Superbikes, not a prolonged procession for expensive technology where everyone wets themselves because somebody passes another - the cars would probably go faster if they ditched the impetuous drivers and put in an autopilot!

No - if you want real racing, get hold of BBC Northern Ireland and watch the road racing. All the overtaking you want, shocking road surfaces and run-off areas composed of 12" dry-stone walls. If Rossi had to race the NW200, he'd probably cry.

Earthbound

Parsnip49 wrote:

I wasnt actually that bothered about who won it, and wouldnt have bothered voting, but after reading your ill informed post, hamilton is getting my vote.

You are so far wrong im not even going to bother arguing.

Parsnip - I was bowled over by the long list of justifications you gave to back up your argument......................

And your second post "the top 5 was made up of 4 different cars" I assume you mean only on the Brazil GP. The season stands as : 1st McLaren, 2nd Ferrari ,3rd McLaren. if you ain't driving one of those cars you ain't winning it!!
Please Parsnip look at the STATS (Brailsford will tell you - the number don't lie), the stats show I am well informed and you propose NO information whatsoever to contradict me.
Hamilton - ONE world championship won by ONE point.
Hoy - THREE world championships, and get this - THREE OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALS. All won by simply destroying world class opposition. Because he's a BETTER athlete.
Hoy is simply MUCH better at what he does than Hamilton is at what he does.

As for Beverick's post -
"It's got to be Hamilton. The accolade is not just as recognition for their sport but for their personality. Even at 23 Hamilton just oozes personaility."

I like your sense of humour (you were being funny right?)

And at this point have to make special mention of a post by a forum member called PASSOUT who said, and I paraphrase for emphasis - "The only cyclist to become a sporting great IMO was Armstrong. ... Mercx(sic) ... deserve(s) a mention"
PASSOUT you know NOTHING about cycling !!!! Please PASSOFF.

To the people who suggest that "track cycling is a minority sport and so Hoy is (somehow) a non achiever" - Motor racing is a minority sport - it requires enormous expense event to get involved at the very lowest level so how does that justify Hamilton?
It's not about wether a sport is minority or not. if that was the case a footballer would win every year- how dull.. It's down to the achievements of an individual with reference to his (or her Nicole) peers.

Hamilton is a nice lad and a great talent but he still won by the narrowest possible margin because he finshed 5th (!!) and if he wasn't driving for McLaren or Ferarri we wouldn't be having this discussion. Only 4 drivers can win the world championship - based on the team the drive for - so essentially it's a battle between 2 guys - the 2 team leaders. Not very impressive!!

People seem to be dazzled by the glamour and moneyt associated by F1 rather than just the minor advantage Hamilton has compared to his fellow competitors - at the end of the season he EDGED IT!! Again not very impressive. F1 is about Money and Marketing, I'm talking about SPORT, sweat training when it hurts.

The BBC have caused a problem by calling it "Sports Personality" a phrase which harks back to the 50's and Auntie Beebs informing and educating remit. No matter what the title is it should go the the greatest sporting achievment of the year.

Man Utd will (wrongly) win team of the year simply cos they have a lot of fans. Brailsford has re-engineereed how sport is done. And I mean SPORT with an athletic element not sitting on your *rse driving a car that is faster than everyone elses car anyways. Coaches from all sports, from all over the world are going to the velodrome to see how it's really done. I also completely support the Nicole vote. She is #1 woman cyclist - I just don't think we can mobilise a vote for her as easily as we could for Hoy.

I was at the velodrome at the weekend when we won 15 of 18 golds and some of our competitors were girls of 17 and 19!! Our track cycling team are breathtaking - CELEBRATE IT! Let them take the plaudits - they really do deserve it!!

Is this a cycling forum or are you all petrolheads in disguise???? If you're going to post a comment at least do some research and put forward some genuine justifications for your opinion. Show me the stats that prove Hamilton is a better driver than Hoy is a cyclist.

VOTE CYCLING !!!!!!

Parsnip49

1. Mclaren - lewis
2. Ferrari - massa
3. Ferrari - kimi
4. BMW - kubica
5. Renault - alonso
Overall results, 4 cars. Top 5. Parsnip has looked at the stats, maybe you should try doing the same.


Hoy won it by miles and Hamilton winning it by a point - this proves nothing. If anything it proves that Hamilton has more competition.

Im not trying to prove Hamilton is better than Hoy or vice versa - your the one doing that - ill tell you now, its a futile exercise.

As i said above, Hamilton would be better on a track bike than hoy would be in a F1 car, but it doesnt prove anything.

They are both great sports men, but you seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder about lewis.

Yes, i am a petrolhead - no disguise about it. I also love cycling, spend the racing season each year getting a slagging off my mates for shaving and have a bike worth more than my car - am i not allowed to be both a cyclist and a motorsports fan?

lesz42

gonna vote for lewis, but its a hard choice, losing is not nice, ask Massa......



i would prefer "Team GB", cycling was just a small part of the whole story , as for lewis only winning by a point, well thats the same as winning by being first or being in front.



anyway all this seems to prove, we dont like winners.

Brassknocker

passout wrote:

Hamilton deserves it as FI is a much more significant (and in may ways harder) sport. Also for his age and raw potential he is amazing...I think the comparisons to Ali are a little premature but he has the potential to be a sporting great. The only cyclist to become a sporting great IMO was Armstrong. Indurain. Mercx, Hoy & a handful of others deserve a mention but they are not in the same league. Remember it sports personality and fame/reputation is all.

Firstly, what a great year for British sport! let's hope it continues!


passout, I think what you say is pretty much spot on with this...

Imagine if a Brit won the TdF this year, I still think Hamilton would get SPotYA. IMO, (SPotY wise!), a British TdF winner would be a league above Hoy's amazing success.

Hoy will get a knighthood!

Hamilton's always come across really well, a great ambassador for the UK - what's there not to like!? for someone so young, the pressure he was dealing with was huge. It's more than just driving skills and fitness, the mental stress he's under in that situation knowing that the eyes of the nation were on him is something we can't really appreciate.

Also, timing-wise, Hamilton's win is fresher in the mind than the Olympics. I think that'll affect the outcome of the SPotYA.


...a British TdF winner - imagine that! - that'd get my vote!

Earthbound

Brassknocker wrote:

Hamilton's always come across really well, a great ambassador for the UK - what's there not to like!?

Can you get him to pay some tax? Not much, any contribution is welcome in the current credit crunch, let's call it 5 grand eh? He can afford 5 grand can't he. I pay more than 5 grand, I bet you do too.

HAMILTON DOESN'T PAYA PENNY.

I'm sorry but that ISN'T right.

lesz42

Earthbound wrote:

Brassknocker wrote:

Hamilton's always come across really well, a great ambassador for the UK - what's there not to like!?

Can you get him to pay some tax? Not much, any contribution is welcome in the current credit crunch, let's call it 5 grand eh? He can afford 5 grand can't he. I pay more than 5 grand, I bet you do too.

HAMILTON DOESN'T PAYA PENNY.

I'm sorry but that ISN'T right.

so thats the reason why he should not be voted for? glad thats clear, your post has so much clarity, its astounding.

scottjessuk

Its called Sports PERSONALITY of the year, so if anyone votes for Hamilton, you have a severe problem with what a personality is, as he doesn't have one!

Funniest thing I have heard in a long time and very truthful, the guy lets not get me wrong is really good behind the wheel of an F1 car but that's as far as it goes for me. He has no personality whatsoever, he is just a big bag of arrogance and for that he would never get my vote.

Another thing what the hell is he going out with a bl@@dy pussycat doll for, more like rent a girlfriend to try and make him look da man.

Anyway that's my moan over for the evening I would say sports personality of the year would have to go to Hoy or Murray.

Brassknocker

Earthbound wrote:

Brassknocker wrote:

Hamilton's always come across really well, a great ambassador for the UK - what's there not to like!?

Can you get him to pay some tax? Not much, any contribution is welcome in the current credit crunch, let's call it 5 grand eh? He can afford 5 grand can't he. I pay more than 5 grand, I bet you do too.

HAMILTON DOESN'T PAYA PENNY.

I'm sorry but that ISN'T right.

...but this is 'Sports personality of the year', not 'Inland Revenue Badboy of the year'...

I love bicycles, hate go-karts, I enjoyed watching the F1 - but I think Hamilton will get it over Hoy!

He and his family lived in Britain and I assume they paid tax then, but now they live in Switzerland, so he doesn't need to pay UK tax!?!

I suppose you don't think Sean Connery is a very good James Bond because he doesn't live in the UK? I'm more of a Roger Moore man myself - and he paid his taxes!

lesz42

scottjessuk wrote:

Its called Sports PERSONALITY of the year, so if anyone votes for Hamilton, you have a severe problem with what a personality is, as he doesn't have one!

Funniest thing I have heard in a long time and very truthful, the guy lets not get me wrong is really good behind the wheel of an F1 car but that's as far as it goes for me. He has no personality whatsoever, he is just a big bag of arrogance and for that he would never get my vote.

Another thing what the hell is he going out with a bl@@dy pussycat doll for, more like rent a girlfriend to try and make him look da man.

Anyway that's my moan over for the evening I would say sports personality of the year would have to go to Hoy or Murray.

has Hoy got a personality? tbh, untill he got gold, i never heard of him, but i dont follow cycling

mansell won it, so much for personality? (ask for peolple in jersey on how much they love mansell....)

Earthbound

Parsnip49 wrote:

1. Mclaren - lewis
2. Ferrari - massa
3. Ferrari - kimi
4. BMW - kubica
5. Renault - alonso
Overall results, 4 cars. Top 5. Parsnip has looked at the stats, maybe you should try doing the same.

Hoy won it by miles and Hamilton winning it by a point - this proves nothing. If anything it proves that Hamilton has more competition.

Im not trying to prove Hamilton is better than Hoy or vice versa - your the one doing that - ill tell you now, its a futile exercise.

As i said above, Hamilton would be better on a track bike than hoy would be in a F1 car, but it doesnt prove anything.

They are both great sports men, but you seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder about lewis.

Yes, i am a petrolhead - no disguise about it. I also love cycling, spend the racing season each year getting a slagging off my mates for shaving and have a bike worth more than my car - am i not allowed to be both a cyclist and a motorsports fan?

Parsnip you said it - Gold, Silver and Bronze to McClaren/Ferrari. Perhaps Kubica is the best driver - he's the same age as Hamilton but he drives for a sh*t team. If he was driving a Ferrari or a McClaren would he now be champ? Oooh tough one to answer that!
Name me someone who can even hold Hoy's wheel!! Except young Kenny, how good is he!! London 2012 Hoy will be an afterthought cos Kenny and the other 'kids' are phenomenal.
My point is Hamilton is VERY slightly better than Massa and the others and Schumacher is only conspicuous by his absence.
Hoy is just simply, clearly, the best in a hotly contested, level playing field sport.
Did any competitor win their awards by clearly beating a world class field or did they just edge it. Hoy - yes, Cooke - yes, Cav - Yes, Wiggie - yes, Lizzie Armistead - (for the future) - yes.
Hamilton just isn't convincing enough, it could so easily have been Massa or Kubika. Don't say the level of competition is high, it's not unless you are one of 2 drivers.
And please don't get me started about that other bookies favourite, Andy Murray, he hasn't even WON anything (of note).

In cycling, especially in Britain, we don't get the opportunity to blow our own trumpet very often. This is our chance, we are actually good at something, GREAT even. If we don't promote cycling as an admirable sport, a sustainable method of transport, a potential significant positive contribution to the health of an obese nation and just plain damn good fun NOW, then when CAN we promote the old two wheel trick?

What better platform to spread the good word to the Great British Public than by voting a cyclist, any cyclist, better still a very worthy cyclist like Hoy, a genuinely humble and nice guy, as a national hero to be respected and admired?

How can you come on a cycling forum and argue against that?

lesz42

easy


see?

dsmiff

From what I have seen if your not in Team GB you aint got much chance of a medal - not that different to driving for Mclaren (throw enough money at a sport and.....).

Why don't you have a go at Rebecca Adlington as she is still a bigger favorite than Hoy to win?

hopper1

:shock: :shock: :shock:
WTF........
Should change this forum to 'Soap Box'!

Hamilton doesn't interest me, 'cos he drives a car...Boring!
Cycling interests me....1 vote!
Personality.....They both suffer on that score.
Hamilton is in a Glamour sport, Hoy is in a relatively Minority sport.
At the end of the day, it's not down to the real supporters of the sporting nominees, but the Media, that swing favour by the way they portray the nominees in the run up during the last few days.
The media can make or brake a potential SPotY
Now, who to vote for?.............................

Stewie Griffin

Tom Simpson World Road Champion beat Jim Clark Formula 1 Champion to SPoTY in 1965. Maybe you have to be World Champ rather than have a clutch of Olympic Golds

In 1963 Clarke won his 1st F1 title and came 3rd in SPoTY to Dorothy Hyman (Sprinter) and Bobby McGregor (Swmmer).

Thought F1 races were restricted to 2 hours the average being about an hour and 45ish mins?
Not getting involved in the which is harder argument, I believe you have to be incredibly fit to race an F1 car to the Championship.

How hard would it be to agree that we should all vote for Victoria Griffin nee Pendleton :twisted: ? I would rather watch her acceptance speech and another 5 mins of video of her than Hoy or Hamilton :P

Earthbound

lesz42 wrote:

Earthbound wrote:

Brassknocker wrote:

Hamilton's always come across really well, a great ambassador for the UK - what's there not to like!?

Can you get him to pay some tax? Not much, any contribution is welcome in the current credit crunch, let's call it 5 grand eh? He can afford 5 grand can't he. I pay more than 5 grand, I bet you do too.

HAMILTON DOESN'T PAYA PENNY.

I'm sorry but that ISN'T right.

so thats the reason why he should not be voted for? glad thats clear, your post has so much clarity, its astounding.

Please note that my response to this post has no relevance to BBC Sports Personality of the Year voting, I've continued THAT discussion in an intentionally separate response.

My posting here is clearly (see the quote) in response to Brassknocker's assertion that Hamilton is "a great ambasador for the UK" which considering he (Hamilton) is neither a resident nor a tax payer I find very difficult to correlate to my understanding of national identity and social responsibiltiy. Please don't tell me he is located there for work - who won this year's Swiss GP? Where are McClaren based? He's not. He's there cos he's too tight to pay into the pot despite being VERYwealthy just like Sean Connery, as identified by an other poster.

On the subejct of Connery, if there's an unspoken anti Scottish undercurrent creeping into some of the responses due to my starting my original post with "I live in Glasgow" then I'm sorry to disappoint you by stating that I am vey much English and my geographical location has nothing to do with my voting favour, as Lance didn't say "It's all about the bike" and hence not about sitting on your *rse in a car.

Fact is Hoy has acheived more than Hamilton this year and so deserves it.

Vivid

Hamilton will be receiving my vote.