Driving in Swiss and Italian Land

RichardB101
RichardB101 Posts: 77
edited October 2008 in Pro race
Hi Is it ok to drive when you are 18yr in swiss and italy, because im planning on driving some of the tour.

Also what are the borders like from france to swiss or italy, will you be checked and what documents you need.

Any tips or help.

Comments

  • claash
    claash Posts: 145
    Do you have a driving license? If so, it is OK to drive? Also do you have your high vis jackets (just in case of an accident and obligatory in Europe ........ no you don't have to wear them all the time :wink::wink: )

    As for the borders: which ones are you intending to cross?? And what time of year? Also What type of car do you drive? and how old is it?
    Entering France should be fine....... However entering Switzerland can be an interesting "challenge" .

    Depending on :-
    how border guards are feeling/whether your general appearance matches your car/ how many people are in the car and who you are travelling with etc etc :
    you can be stopped whilst they dismantle your car (you then are obliged to rebuild it by the way). Or you are waved through with a begrudging shrug.

    You will only need your passport and driving license to enter........ However if you are thinking of using the swiss motorways (signposted in Green) you will need to buy a vignette (costs 40 Swiss Francs at the mo but saves you the 250 minimum CHF on the spot fine if you are caught without it!!)

    Entering Italy shouldn't be too much of a problem re documentation however depending on which border you are planning to cross and what time of year you could be looking at lengthy tailbacks.........(hours worth of queing)

    This is after 12 years of living in Switzerland and venturing across borders on a regular basis!!

    Let me know if you need more info!!
  • Hi thanks for the help.
    IM looking to do this during the tdf 2009, With a few mates around 17 18 years old, i can see i problem allready.

    Im looking to cross the borders by genever to travel to verbier and also swiss to italy via grand bernard.

    I guess they will be bussy in the tour be i cant see there being many police stopping you up a mountain.

    Also do you need to carry the insurance documents just incase they ask.

    Thanks again.
  • ajohn9
    ajohn9 Posts: 260
    Are you planning on driving through France mate?? Dont you have to be 21 to drive there if you're a foreigner/English?
  • claash
    claash Posts: 145
    The Geneva Border is fairly used to foreigners passing through.
    But I think you should expect to be stopped (unless your mates are girls and guys... the border guards prefer having couples travelling together rather than just groups of guys!)
    I guess they will be bussy in the tour be i cant see there being many police stopping you up a mountain.

    :lol::lol: You've never been to Switzerland have you?? Summertime..... mountain roads..... maniac motorbikers speeding : its a frenzy of activity for the police up there.... they love it!! :lol::lol:
    Saint bernadino is the busiest pass and border crossing: (Schools are on holiday in July here and in Germany) so you will probably have some delays!!

    Certainly carry the car insurance (and does the E111 still exist for health insurance?? get one of those too!! THe health care here is great, but costs and arm and a leg tee hee :lol:
  • Hi guys,
    Yes we will be driving through france and i dont know if you need to be 21 hope not other wise we are screwed.
    sound slike it will be bussy up there for the week of the tour, hope we wont get stopped to much as it will be clear we are following the tour as we will have bikes and loads of other stuff with use.

    Is there anyway to avoid the border controll in a legal way any tips to make it easyer.

    and yes its only guys going no girls.
    :P :x
  • term1te
    term1te Posts: 1,462
    Just to add to Claash's point about high vis jackets. They need to be in the body of the car, so that you can put it on before you get out. The Italians are most keen on this, although I heard that the police near Calais were stopping UK registered cars, just to check. There are many speed cameras in Switzerland, they are not painted bright yellow, in fact they will be placed behind road signs, etc. The locals look on it as extra tax. If you are caught a lot over the limit, they will just take your licence and car, and leave you there. The fines are then a percentage of your total assets. On the motorway from France into Geneva there are cameras on both sides of the boarder. It is also illegal in Switzerland to have a GPS system that can tell you where the speed cameras are. They will sell you a vignette whether you want one or not, so have 40 CHF ready at the boarder, if you have a trailer, you'll need two, but it does last until May the following year.

    If you look "respectable" you will have no problem at the boarder, blond children in the car also help, which is a bit of an indictment on the European country with the highest immigrant population... I’m one of them.
  • claash
    claash Posts: 145
    Only thing I can suggest is to cross via the smaller border crossings...... as you say because you have bike gear with you they may realise you are following the tour!

    Didn't mean to worry you...... I just think it is better to calculate a stop and check in rather than miss some of the race..?

    As for driving age in France........ have you checked the French embassies web site? or what about the French tourist board....... They should be able to confirm!!
    Bon Chance!!
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    claash wrote:
    Also do you have your high vis jackets (just in case of an accident and obligatory in Europe ........ no you don't have to wear them all the time :wink::wink: )
    The reflecting vest is a requirement in Italy as well (many other lands too, although not yet in Britain). In Italy, the passengers also need to wear one if getting out of a car on the road, like when in an accident, so strictly you might need 4-5 vests there. Don’t forget the warning triangle and first aid kit either.

    Regarding insurance, it’s good to have a green card in Switzerland, or anywhere abroad, just in case of an accident.
    claash wrote:
    ....... However entering Switzerland can be an interesting "challenge" .
    Depending on :-
    how border guards are feeling/whether your general appearance matches your car/ how many people are in the car and who you are travelling with etc etc :
    you can be stopped whilst they dismantle your car (you then are obliged to rebuild it by the way). Or you are waved through with a begrudging shrug.
    There are usually no controls at the borders of lands in the Schengen Agreement (most everywhere in Europe, except Britain and Rumania) and Switzerland are to enter into the agreement this coming December and do away with their passport controls.

    However, as they still want to inspect the occasional suspicious car, their borders might not be completely unmanned in 2009. And, if the crossing is a motorway one, they might still have people to check you have a vignette. This is where term1te’s sentence below applies, not at a border crossing on just any road.
    Term1te wrote:
    They will sell you a vignette whether you want one or not.
    Or else they knew a sucker when they saw one coming!

    Otherwise you shouldn’t be checked anywhere ... except of course when leaving and returning to your own country!
  • thanks for all the advice i will check the france driving age i hope its not 21
  • You'll need to carry a spare set of bulbs for your car lights, a warning triangle & first-aid kit too.
    You won't notice the French/Italian border, other than a change in language on the road signs.
    Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.
  • although I heard that the police near Calais were stopping UK registered cars, just to check.
    Sounds like a nice little earner for the police and makes their stats look good too.

    Touring round the Italian lakes and southern Switzerland a few years ago I had no problems, though what was noticeable at the non-motorway border points was that the road surfaces usually became rubbish after crossing to the Italian side.
  • although I heard that the police near Calais were stopping UK registered cars, just to check.
    Sounds like a nice little earner for the police and makes their stats look good too.
    If anything, when it comes to most driving crimes the French police tend to concentrate on local drivers. They could do with targeting foreign drivers- especially Brits- a lot more than they do.

    I have lived in France for a number of years now and I am appalled by the general lack of respect for French traffic law British drivers have. Many Brits who live in my area of the woods (the Alps) deliberately fail to re-register cars they have brought over here, running them on GB plates even though they have no valid GB MOT certificate or VED. Naturally they often don`t have a French Controle Technique certificate either, nor insurance. The lack of a traceable plate also helps them to evade speeding fines. I also know from some Brit ex-pats I have met that when they are pulled for speeding and are required to take out a French licence and serve a ban they devise all sorts of dodges to keep their GB licence and to try to keep one step ahead of the law.

    Ironically I asked a local official why the police don`t tackle this problem and I was told it was a sort of unofficial official policy to turn a blind eye to the driving crimes of Brits as it is felt keeping them sweet is good for the tourist trade!

    It`s not just the Brits though. I live close to the Swiss border and many Swiss, especially the BMW / Audi / Boy racer set, appear to regard France as being their private race track, tailgating, overtaking way over the limit and so on.

    Perhaps the behaviour of the Swiss is not that surprising given that Switzerland has so much in common with the UK being right-wing, hierarchical, parochial, inequitable, status-orientated, and obsessed by cars, especially big German cars and `modded` boy racer mobiles!

    The earlier comments about Swiss customs are also on the ball. Look a bit `alternative`, or coloured, or otherwise offend the Swiss sense of desirability and they can come on like the Gestapo! Again this is hardly surprising given that the following is rather typical of the sort of poster one sees in Switzerland around election times.

    1339641587_43216466d1.jpg
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    That is a poster for the Swiss far right Aurelio, like the BNP, so expected, if sad.

    But you're right, the last time I drove into Switzerland, the border police had stopped about 10 to 12 drivers and were at various stages of searching them. Vans, trucks, big cars, small cars, families, lone men in suits, they all had different circumstances but all shared a common thing: none were white :roll:

    Remember, speed cameras flash in France and Switzerland if you are 1km/h over the limit, there is no margin of error unlike Britain.
  • Kléber wrote:
    That is a poster for the Swiss far right Aurelio, like the BNP, so expected, if sad.
    Not quite like the BNP. For the last two elections the the Swiss People's Party has got more votes than any other party and it is the largest party in the Swiss Parliament. In the last elections the SVP won the highest percentage of seats for any Swiss party since 1919!
  • Blonde
    Blonde Posts: 3,188
    Italy too has fascist leanings of course. They love kids though, so having several cute bambini in your car might help...
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    Kléber wrote:
    the last time I drove into Switzerland, the border police had stopped about 10 to 12 drivers and were at various stages of searching them. Vans, trucks, big cars, small cars, families, lone men in suits, they all had different circumstances but all shared a common thing: none were white
    This sounds just like it regularly appears to be the case when I drive through customs at Dover!
    Dover seem to also pull over those who have long hair and are under 30 years, and those who have any suggestion of a sallow complexion and a 5-a-clock shadow.

    Some Swiss can be very conservative, but that isn't the same as right-wing. And many, especially the under-40s who are or were students, are liberal and laid-back to the extreme.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    Sorry, I wasn't calling all the Swiss rascists. Just the border police :?
  • Hi guys,
    Yes we will be driving through france and i dont know if you need to be 21 hope not other wise we are screwed.
    sound slike it will be bussy up there for the week of the tour, hope we wont get stopped to much as it will be clear we are following the tour as we will have bikes and loads of other stuff with use.

    Is there anyway to avoid the border controll in a legal way any tips to make it easyer.

    and yes its only guys going no girls.
    :P :x
    If you're going to Switzerland, it's a quick to drive through Belgium, Luxembourg and Germany to get to Switzerland as France and you'll not see any road tolls either.
  • Hi, lloyd bower

    So do you think it will be easyer to get through these borders and less full of TDF views. Or is it just a quicker way around.

    also are you still ok to drive at 18 in all the countrys.
    Thanks
  • stagehopper
    stagehopper Posts: 1,593
    A handy website which will help you out with all the details re: age/what you need to carry in the car etc:

    http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/ov ... untry.html

    One thing always to remember in Switzerland, if you intend to use the motorways you'll need to buy the yearly motorway tax at the border.
  • knedlicky wrote:
    Some Swiss can be very conservative, but that isn't the same as right-wing. And many, especially the under-40s who are or were students, are liberal and laid-back to the extreme.
    Whilst `conservative` is generally treated as being a synonym for `right wing` I will grant you that the two are not necessarily mutually inclusive. That said both the Swiss in general and Switzerland as a country are both very conservative and right wing.

    I will also accept that `many ` Swiss are `liberal and laid-back to the extreme`. However, much the same could be said about places such as the UK or USA, and as in such countries in Switzerland they are in a minority.
  • Most of it's been said already, but FCO has advice on driving in each country as well as loads of other info...

    http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travelling-and ... ry/europe/

    Swiss Vignette you might be able to get from AA shop? If not any autoroute or autobahn services just before the border, or at the border.

    Shame that there's no common set of requirements across EU for kit carried in car, but France+Italy both require High Viz jacket. I forget the rest, but also have spare bulbs, first aid kit and triangle anyway (need that in Germany). France you need to be 18 with full driving licence. Actually most of Europe is 18, and I *thought* UK was changing to 18 to drive too?

    France and Switzerland have stealthier speed cameras, and GPS speed camera detectors are banned. Although they probably can't send you the ticket, you'd probably get arrested next time you enter.

    Only borders you'd see are between UK+France, and between Switzerland and its neighbours.
    Andy - The Expat Cyclist in Germany
    '07/'08 Cotic Soul
    '96 Scott Vail
    '89 Ridgeback Rapide 105
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    aurelio wrote:
    Whilst `conservative` is generally treated as being a synonym for `right wing` I will grant you that the two are not necessarily mutually inclusive. That said both the Swiss in general and Switzerland as a country are both very conservative and right wing.
    I will also accept that `many ` Swiss are `liberal and laid-back to the extreme`. However, much the same could be said about places such as the UK or USA, and as in such countries in Switzerland they are in a minority.
    I don't live in Switzerland and don’t mean to be a defender for them. I just thought there were too many loose statements being made about the Swiss.

    I have close friends there (in Montreux, Frutigen, Wildhaus and Grabs), whom I see every 1-2 years, and I certainly don't have the feeling of right-wing from them (more the contrary) or of Switzerland generally from what they tell me (although I know there's a certain popular feeling against foreign workers there and some other conservative attitudes). My impression is that the Swiss are more conservative in manner but not really any more right-wing than much of the UK actually is (despite how the UK portrays itself).

    With 'liberal and laid-back' I didn't mean the Swiss were moreso than groups in the UK or the USA. Although on the other hand, there's a difference between indifference and unthinking loose living, and a conscious liberal approach to life.

    I’ve encountered the opposing extremes of Swiss attitudes both in Zurich and also in the Hütten up the mountain, and the lack of consistency is actually interesting.
  • France and Switzerland have stealthier speed cameras, and GPS speed camera detectors are banned. Although they probably can't send you the ticket, you'd probably get arrested next time you enter.
    If the police catch you going more than 25 km and hour over the limit in Switzerland or France they may well confiscate your licence on the spot and impound your car! This is certainly what happened to a work colleague of mine over in Lausanne last week. The Swiss police drove his car away leaving him at the roadside and only later told he he would not be allowed to drive in Switzerland for another 3 months. Serves him right! :wink:

    Being caught in France with a radar detector may also see your car been impounded until you pay the fine, which could be as high as 1000 Euros.

    Sounds harsh but all in all it`s great living in a country like France where a real attempt is made to hold motorists to account for their illegal, selfish and anti-social behaviour. Oh, and don`t drink and drive, especially in France. The French drink drive limit is 50 mg/ 100 ml and they currently do something like 15 million drink-drive tests per year, as opposed to the paltry 500,000 or so done in the UK. No wonder the levels of drink-driving in France are lower than in the UK with the UK being the only country in Europe to see the number of drink-drive fatalities actually rise over the last 10 years!
  • knedlicky wrote:
    I don't live in Switzerland and don’t mean to be a defender for them. I just thought there were too many loose statements being made about the Swiss.
    I actually work in Switzerland...
    knedlicky wrote:
    My impression is that the Swiss are more conservative in manner but not really any more right-wing than much of the UK actually is
    I would say that is probably true, as far as it goes. However I would also say that the UK is overwhelmingly right-wing in outlook! (Take a look at the sort of fascist bile printed in paper like the biggest selling newspapers in the UK- the Daily Mail and The Sun - for a few illustrations of this). However you look at it the far right and fascist leaning SVP is the most popular political party in Switzerland, gaining over 40% of the vote in some areas. They do have less support in the canton of Valais though.
  • LangerDan
    LangerDan Posts: 6,132
    aurelio wrote:
    knedlicky wrote:
    I don't live in Switzerland and don’t mean to be a defender for them. I just thought there were too many loose statements being made about the Swiss.
    I actually work in Switzerland...

    You are Pat McQuaid and ICMFP!
    'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'