Classico RCN

dave_1

what the 08 RCN classic results don't tell us about the event is that the top 3 guys in the sport in the 80s , early 90s were humiliated by the Columbians in this even-Hinault, Fignon, Kelly...hours down, could not hang on on climbs at all. Pro Tour Euro riders are likely scared of what would happen to their reputations once in the Andes with a load of Columbian guys who climb cols every week in training

No disrespect to the good Aussies on here, but I would far rather see the Pro Tour head to South America than to the Tour Down Under as much better to see the pro tour rider take on the field in this race-I suspect it would be carnage with the Pro Tour teams on the receiving end

Sevilla won, but IMO the race deserves much better

http://www.velonews.com/article/84711/r ... n-colombia

moray_gub

Dave_1 wrote:

what the 08 RCN classic results don't tell us about the event is that the top 3 guys in the sport in the 80s , early 90s were humiliated by the Columbians in this even-Hinault, Fignon, Kelly...hours down, could not hang on on climbs at all. Pro Tour Euro riders are likely scared of what would happen to their reputations once in the Andes with a load of Columbian guys who climb cols every week in training

No disrespect to the good Aussies on here, but I would far rather see the Pro Tour head to South America than to the Tour Down Under as much better to see the pro tour rider take on the field in this race-I suspect it would be carnage with the Pro Tour teams on the receiving end

Sevilla won, but IMO the race deserves much better

http://www.velonews.com/article/84711/r ... n-colombia

I seem to recall Kelly saying he went there once not to compete for the overall but to win a stage this he duly did this winning stage 2 one year.He also said he had difficulty acclimatising
Why do you think the Pro Tour teams would be on the receiving end when a lesser rider like Sevilla actually wins the event ?

cheers
MG

monkey71

Yes, a lot of pro tour riders wouldn't keep up, not all of that is down to natural ability. The dope testing at these events is notoriously slack and the what tests they have conducted have caught out numerous dopers. the majority of these riders won't step out of their own little area, as the testing would expose them........ This will probably upset a few, and I know the protour is far from saintly, but countries like columbia, portugal etc are notorious for having races won by mountain goats that are loaded to the hilt and rareley get tested.

dave_1

Moray Gub wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

what the 08 RCN classic results don't tell us about the event is that the top 3 guys in the sport in the 80s , early 90s were humiliated by the Columbians in this even-Hinault, Fignon, Kelly...hours down, could not hang on on climbs at all. Pro Tour Euro riders are likely scared of what would happen to their reputations once in the Andes with a load of Columbian guys who climb cols every week in training

No disrespect to the good Aussies on here, but I would far rather see the Pro Tour head to South America than to the Tour Down Under as much better to see the pro tour rider take on the field in this race-I suspect it would be carnage with the Pro Tour teams on the receiving end

Sevilla won, but IMO the race deserves much better

http://www.velonews.com/article/84711/r ... n-colombia

I seem to recall Kelly saying he went there once not to compete for the overall but to win a stage this he duly did this winning stage 2 one year.He also said he had difficulty acclimatising
Why do you think the Pro Tour teams would be on the receiving end when a lesser rider like Sevilla actually wins the event ?

cheers
MG

wikipedia shows Kelly won a stage of the RCN in 92 when Festina went there. But, on the climbs..am sure he was way down...and would have been in his prime like Hinault I guess. The altitude at which the mountain stages are held make sea level Euro guys struggle. And I think given the economic situaton the guys will climb fast when given the chance of a better employment situation. It was great seeing the Columbians come to Europe and do the Tour, win the Dauphine and ALpe D'Huez in the 80s-I loved seeing them do that and am puzzled why they never built on that-can only assume they can't afford the Drs.
http://www.clasicorcn.com.co/clasico/no ... s_119.htm#

dave_1

monkey71 wrote:

Yes, a lot of pro tour riders wouldn't keep up, not all of that is down to natural ability. The dope testing at these events is notoriously slack and the what tests they have conducted have caught out numerous dopers. the majority of these riders won't step out of their own little area, as the testing would expose them........ This will probably upset a few, and I know the protour is far from saintly, but countries like columbia, portugal etc are notorious for having races won by mountain goats that are loaded to the hilt and rareley get tested.

Yes, avoid developing countries cause they are doping and lets not help them have the means to stop it?

The best in the sport have gone to the Columbian event cause of the benefits huge long climbs, hot weather and altitude training . I had never heard of the Tour down under or Poland and I am not really that interested in them ...but they are pro tour so we must pretend they are historic events and of great stature yet they are not

moray_gub

Dave_1 wrote:

monkey71 wrote:

Yes, a lot of pro tour riders wouldn't keep up, not all of that is down to natural ability. The dope testing at these events is notoriously slack and the what tests they have conducted have caught out numerous dopers. the majority of these riders won't step out of their own little area, as the testing would expose them........ This will probably upset a few, and I know the protour is far from saintly, but countries like columbia, portugal etc are notorious for having races won by mountain goats that are loaded to the hilt and rareley get tested.

Yes, avoid developing countries cause they are doping and lets not help them have the means to stop it?

The best in the sport have gone to the Columbian event cause of the benefits huge long climbs, hot weather and altitude training . I had never heard of the Tour down under or Poland and I am not really that interested in them ...but they are pro tour so we must pretend they are historic events and of great stature yet they are not

the best in the sport ? certainly not nowadays thats for sure.The Tour Of Poland was first run in 1928 which i think makes it older than the Vuelta.

cheers
MG

dave_1

Moray Gub wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

monkey71 wrote:

Yes, a lot of pro tour riders wouldn't keep up, not all of that is down to natural ability. The dope testing at these events is notoriously slack and the what tests they have conducted have caught out numerous dopers. the majority of these riders won't step out of their own little area, as the testing would expose them........ This will probably upset a few, and I know the protour is far from saintly, but countries like columbia, portugal etc are notorious for having races won by mountain goats that are loaded to the hilt and rareley get tested.

Yes, avoid developing countries cause they are doping and lets not help them have the means to stop it?

The best in the sport have gone to the Columbian event cause of the benefits huge long climbs, hot weather and altitude training . I had never heard of the Tour down under or Poland and I am not really that interested in them ...but they are pro tour so we must pretend they are historic events and of great stature yet they are not

the best in the sport ? certainly not nowadays thats for sure.The Tour Of Poland was first run in 1928 which i think makes it older than the Vuelta.

cheers
MG

Was the Tour of Poland the Peace Race poss? Have never heard of it pre Pro Tour and nor I think will you have.

And yes, youtube search the TDF years in the 80s and you will see RCN winners who came to France and ripped the legs off the heros of that era-heros in the Euro centric media. I was in South America last year and awestruck looking at the Andes 10 miles behind Santiago, flying up north, must be amazing to climb those roads by bike. I think the Euro folk forget they are not the world, just a part of it-likewise the USA and down under

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HInkDpWtZVU!

Kléber

One point here that no one's mentioned is that the likes of Lucho Herrera and Pablo Wilches had naturally high haematocrit counts. They were born and lived at 3000m. But along came EPO and suddenly the natural advantage of these Columbians vanished.

King of the Mountains by Matt Rendell is a good book to read, telling the tale of cycling in Columbia alongside its collapsing economy and increasing rural violence.

monkey71

Dave_1 wrote:

monkey71 wrote:

Yes, a lot of pro tour riders wouldn't keep up, not all of that is down to natural ability. The dope testing at these events is notoriously slack and the what tests they have conducted have caught out numerous dopers. the majority of these riders won't step out of their own little area, as the testing would expose them........ This will probably upset a few, and I know the protour is far from saintly, but countries like columbia, portugal etc are notorious for having races won by mountain goats that are loaded to the hilt and rareley get tested.

Yes, avoid developing countries cause they are doping and lets not help them have the means to stop it?

The best in the sport have gone to the Columbian event cause of the benefits huge long climbs, hot weather and altitude training . I had never heard of the Tour down under or Poland and I am not really that interested in them ...but they are pro tour so we must pretend they are historic events and of great stature yet they are not

I think you missed the point I was making!.... I never said avoid the country or race. I encourage and hope more people will go to these races, if that occurs, the riders from those regions that are naturally gifted will have a chance to shine against the high amount of their countrymen who aren't "naturally gifted". The added funds, and status that would be gained by attracting more of the bigger european teams would eventually lead to more testing and hopefully start levelling out the playing field. I think one of the stumbling blocks to getting more bigger riders to attend the race, apart from what I've mentioned, is the fact of timing. It's at the end of a very long season for some.

Tour Down Under, Tour of Poland, never heard of them, well you must have to mention them in your post. The Tour de France wasn't the biggest race in the world when it started, but the point is it started and grew. TDU and Poland are also exposing more riders and fans to areas that in the past have not predominantly been big players in the racing scene. A good thing I would have thought, and in 50-60 years time, we can start speaking of the history of these races. Ask the pros, they especially like the TDU because it's well organised, run in warm weather and gives them an early season hit out without having to go to far into the red early in the season. Unfortunately, and there's no point in glossing over it, the races mentioned in columbia etc, have an extremely poor record in relation to winners and place getters testing positive, in fact, it may have even been a recent edition of the Tour of Columbia where the first couple of riders in the final GC where later disqualified for positive testing.

moray_gub

Dave_1 wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

monkey71 wrote:

Yes, a lot of the Euro folk forget they are not the world, just a part of it-likewise the USA and down under

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HInkDpWtZVU!

When it comes to Pro cycling and thats what we are discussing here then Continental Europe is where its at no ifs buts or maybes about it . Sure there are good races in other parts of the world but sadly not too many people give a monkeys about that.

cheers
MG