Commuting and the Credit Crunch

DonDaddyD

Ok fuel prices are set to fall due to demand not being as high in developing countries (China) as it has been in previous years (demand raises the price for an item especially if production cannot meet said demand).

Fuel is still freaking expensive.

SO the marketing officer that I am questions the following: Given that cycling has increased a good 90% in London and this increase is set to continue, why isn't there a bike company making really good, really cheap, really well spec bikes in order to exploit the credit crunch encouraging motorists to save on petrol and cycle to work?

I mean really expoilt this with a massive campaign showing how much money a cyclist could save in 6 months of cycle commuting over driving to work?

Is there a bike manufacturer doing this?

Breathless Commuter Man

IMHO : I don't feel that I save that much money cycling to work. I think I spend about the same commuting by bike as by car/train. I have to factor in the price of the bike into the comparison, but not the (full) cost of the car as I have a car sitting at home anyway (and I guess many people will).

However, what I do get for no additional cost is a fitness plan and a hobby.

Over to you as the marketing guy to spin that one

chuckcork

Really good, really cheap bike?

Don't you think that if it could be done then it would be?

What do you define as a good spec BTW?

A top of the range frame + groupset isn't going to come cheap, but there are plenty of inexpensive bikes around that will do 3-4000 miles without major cost for replacement parts.

I think you are asking a 'how long is a piece of string' kind of question the way it has been framed.

Maybe the focus should be on running cost comparisons?

pintoo

The Govt has been pushing up the price of fuel to get us out of our cars. Now that it's working, they're panicking. Madness. Who else enforces change without putting in place an alternative? Personally, I don't think the price of fuel is SO high that people will choose the (usually more expensive, slower and less convenient) options, especially if transporting a family. Wherever is that integrated transport policy?

fonty1978

I joined my companies R2W scheme partly to get riding again and partly to save on fuel.

I can't see my giving up my car completely, as some days can get rough and make it dangerous to bike into work conditions such as ice, galeforce winds etc..

That said my only saving so far has been fuel costs and you still have to pay insurance and road tax of course. Trouble is all the money i've saved goes on more biking kit!!

pst88

DonDaddyD wrote:

Why isn't there a bike company making really good, really cheap, really well spec bikes in order to exploit the credit crunch

DonDaddyD wrote:

demand raises the price for an item especially if production cannot meet said demand.

Maybe that's why?

Surf-Matt

Until bikes can:

Safely carry a baby.
Carry surfboards.
Carry a weeks shopping.
Get me to London for a meeting in under 4 hours.
Tow our little speedboat.

Then we will stick to a very politically incorrect:
One estate car (albeit low emissions diesel)
One little 4x4 (also low emissions)

But our cars aren't used daily and I spend LOADS of biking anyway!

I reckon our cars cost us less than 1/30th of our income to fuel and keep legal - that's just not enough to worry about them being a nasty expense - yet.

El Gordo

pintoo wrote:

The Govt has been pushing up the price of fuel to get us out of our cars. Now that it's working, they're panicking. Madness.

It's almost as though the real reason behind the high taxation is to make money rather than the save the world isn't it?

biondino

The money paid in tax goes towards public services. It doesn't make politicians richer. Conversations would be SO much easier if people remembered this one teeny fact when discussing taxes.

DonDaddyD

chuckcork wrote:

'how long is a piece of string'

Twice as long as half a piece of string...

pst88 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Why isn't there a bike company making really good, really cheap, really well spec bikes in order to exploit the credit crunch

DonDaddyD wrote:
demand raises the price for an item especially if production cannot meet said demand.

Maybe that's why?

Well yes it could be a reason why but demand for bike's hasn't exceeded production capacity.

We buy into brand names for many reasons, during economic low points these values tend to go out the window as people strive to save and spend less.

So if a mass manufacturer (Giant for example) produce a bike range that undercuts its competitors (as it did with the SCR range) creating a barrier of entry for other companies (setting the rrp so low that it is virtually impossible to come in at a lower price and make a profit) whilst encouraging hard up customers/consumers into to buy into their brand. this was one of the things I admired about the Focus '08 range, for the price you were getting some insane kit. Now they've seem to have gone the complete opposite and entered the '09 market as a premium brand.

Still what I'm getting from the posts, is that for the majority of people if you already drive and own a car cycling doesn't save money all it does is divert the money spent on petrol to things like cycle shorts, lights, bibs etc.

The real added benefits is having toned thighs, good lungs and a potentially increased stamina.

Bassjunkieuk

I think there was a thread a couple of weeks back about how much money you save by cycle commuting and again on there I think the general concensus was "well I save £X by not using my car/public transport but then I spend £2X on my bike :-)"

As I said in that thread I don't really stand to save any money buy using my bike to commute as I can claim back travel expenses regardless of it I chose to drive to work or use PT.
I also don't think that those people that I pass sitting in cars and waiting around for buses even consider cycling a viable alternative. I remember mentioning that I cycle commute to someone once and they commented they had started riding to work recently. At the time the site I was in was located next to Vauxhall tube station and he only lived in Brixton!
"It only takes me 15 minutes to get to work now!" he said.

We also need to consider that the initial outlay for a bike, whilst not as high as a car or a season ticket is still quite high, once you get a entry level bike, lock, lights, clothing etc you could easily be looking at spending £500, which during the current financial situation isn't exactly a small amount. I think a better way to increase cycling take up would be to offer the R2W scheme to all workers, not just those in companies that can be bothered to do the admin to run the scheme.

lazymedievalist

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

We also need to consider that the initial outlay for a bike, whilst not as high as a car or a season ticket is still quite high, once you get a entry level bike, lock, lights, clothing etc you could easily be looking at spending £500, which during the current financial situation isn't exactly a small amount.

That depends on your definition of 'entry level bike' - I got mine very very cheap second-hand with a rubbish Halfords lock thrown in for free, but the person I bought it off had only paid £100 in the first place. Since then I've spent £15 on lights and £12 on an Aldi jacket. The whole lot, including bike, has cost me less than a month's travelcard. It might not sound like a huge saving at first but for someone like me who earns rubbish money and has a student overdraft to pay off it's helping enormously.

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

I think a better way to increase cycling take up would be to offer the R2W scheme to all workers, not just those in companies that can be bothered to do the admin to run the scheme.

Now that I could definitely go for, because at the moment it looks to me as though the people benefitting from these schemes are usually the ones who could afford a decent bike on their own. A government scheme to lend people the money to buy a cheap bike, which could be paid back out of paychecks in a similar way to student loans, might also provide the demand needed for DonDaddyD's good cheap bikes.

chuckcork

DonDaddyD wrote:

chuckcork wrote:

'how long is a piece of string'

Twice as long as half a piece of string...

pst88 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

I assume them its a length someweher between than infinity + 1 and 10 x 0?

bluecow

The reason the majority of your colleagues don't cycle to work isn't because they can't afford a bike or the associated paraphernalia. These are the same people, remember who will most likely go out and spend minimum £50 a week on drinking. The reason they don't cycle into work is because they are lazy. Simple as.
Add to that the fact that roads are very much car orientated places where cyclists are treated appallingly, you can't blame a lot of people for not venturing out twice a day.
Btw, i save 150 miles' worth of petrol a week by cycle commuting but would not give up my car permanently.
Maybe more people would consider it if roads were more cycle friendly; by this i mean wider cycle lanes, making it more of a pain in the a*s to drive and better showering facilities at workplaces. There are way more facets to the changes needed than simply being able to afford a bike.

rubbercolin

indeed -- the piece of string ....

my bike is personal to me , the savings are too.

I understand that we all get the "I saved £ XX over xyz "- fine ..

IMHO -- I look at whole costs over the year and what the bike brings .

I have been back on 2 wheels for 18 months now . My second week back I stopped smoking a £1500.00 annual habit. Entirely down to the bike - no , but without the easy way back to excercise I would not have sayed off the smokes. I'm convinced of this .

I still have a car outside - it does 50 miles a month. I saved approx £400 in running costs this year . I ride to work most days.

2 stone lighter - £2k in pocket (subjectively?)-- no problem spending it on bikes and holidays .

As I already said its personal.

If the crunch really hits - I stop buying bike stuff apart from maintenance and just enjoy the ride.



D

4dam

I think that in the long run you can save money. Here is my equations.

Bike £600 or £50 a month over a year

No longer need gym membership £55.

Petrol over the year for work £1200 or £100 a month

Lights -£40, Lock -£40, Clothing £220,, Maintenance £60

So for me the bike is £80 a month and the car is £155.

And that without wear and tear on the car, %of insurance, M.O.T

londonlivvy

I think only £60 on maintenance on a bike for a year is pretty unlikely - perhaps if you only do 2 miles each way? I end up spending more than that on services, new brake blocks, chain, tyres, etc etc

4dam

Sorry Londonlivvy not been commuting long and not had to spend any cash so far on maintenance but it would need to be £750 year to make it more expensive then the car.

Belv

biondino wrote:

The money paid in tax goes towards public services. It doesn't make politicians richer. Conversations would be SO much easier if people remembered this one teeny fact when discussing taxes.

Not sure i entirely agree. Taxes don't make politicians directly richer (perhaps), but taxes do pay their wages which they vote on increases in. Taxes pay their expenses and also their quite comfortable ex-MP's pension.
The public services that benefit from tax money don't always seem entirely impartial either - Gordon Brown's family connections to the nuclear industry, for example.

Surf-Matt

The money paid in tax goes largely to bailing out incompetent greedy banking pillocks who have stuffed the economy. The increase in taxes needed to pay for the bail out will hurt the taxpayer for many years to come.

Injustice in the extreme.

joew4ll

I definitely save money. I wanted a nice bike anyway, so it's a sunk cost. However, if I didn't cycle to work as much as I do, we would need a second car which would cost significantly more than I spend on my bike.

Another saving I have is time. If I drive, it's about 35 minutes, cycling is 45, but I've got all my exercise done and dusted so I can spend time with my wife and child rather than other sweaty oiks at the gym...

I do have to admit though that my work colleague subsidise my biscuit consumption considerably - shhh :oops:

il_principe

There is such a thing though. What about the Giant Bowery singlespeed? Was going for around £300 recently. I'm not sure you can't get much better otp vfm than that. The problem is that most want to be cycle commuters are captivated by the idea that they need gears, lots and lots of gears - hence the number of hybrids that are triples. Most London commuters would be fine on a SS but few of them will ever consider/realise this...

el_presidente

jashburnham wrote:

Most London commuters would be fine on a SS but few of them will ever consider/realise this...

True, when I went fixed I gave the wife my old singlespeed and she was highly sceptical but now she loves it. It does look a bit stupid with carbon forks / Deore disk brakes and a whacking great basket on the front but what can you do

fairweatherbiker

I only started cycling in March this year. I ususally do around 8,000 miles a year in the car, but since cycling nearly every day, I've only done 1,500 miles in the car since March - most of it as taxi duty to children.

Bike - Free (its a 1982 model thats spent most of the past 20 years in a shed) + around £140 for extra kit, (tyres, jacket, lights, locks)

I missed that petrol price rise hike and fall, as I'm still on the same tank of gas I bought for August bank holiday weekend

Money saved: 2,500 miles @ 25mpg = 100gallons = 500 litres, I guess around £500 in petrol. Plus I find I use the bike for a lot of local non-commuting trips where I would previously have used the car

Well after working that out I should treat myself to a new bike!