So the clocks have changed again..

don_don

This is the time of year I hate the most. Now the clocks have gone back, my mood will grow subtly worse and I'll struggle to enjoy getting out on the bike, unless I can sneak out at the weekend. The evening commute will also become a bit more dangerous as the rush-hour peak is in the pitch dark. :x

What bugs me is that every year some politician or other will suggest we stay on BST in the winter, and even go to 'double summer time' in summer. But then the usual hackneyed arguments about road safety and 'what about the Scots' come out Ultimately, no-one in government will have the balls to suggest actually giving it a try for a year or so.

I recall hearing last year (on the radio I think), that the agruments about road safety for school children were bogus, based on inaccurate and old data. I strongly suspect that tired drivers going home from work at the end of the day, are much more dangerous than at first thing in the morning.

And, if we can do business perfectly well with the rest of Europe then why not with Scotland, which could adapt its time zone to suit its latitude?

A few years ago I thought 'Sod it' and stayed on BST until December! Luckily, the job I was doing was flexible enough, that it didn't matter that I was starting and finishing an hour earlier than normal. It was great, albeit a bit confusing at times I am seriously considering doing the same this year.

Biscuiteer

don_don wrote:

What bugs me is that every year some politician or other will suggest we stay on BST in the winter, and even go to 'double summer time' in summer. But then the usual hackneyed arguments about road safety and 'what about the Scots' come out Ultimately, no-one in government will have the balls to suggest actually giving it a try for a year or so.

I agree that it would be great to stay on BST in the winter but just I don't understand the need to wed it to this double-summer-time idea. Summer-time isn't broken, so leave it alone!

Can't the Scots pass legislation for a unique Scottish Winter Time zone now that they've got their own parliament? Or at least make it compulsory for all Scottish children to eat a bowl of readybrek each morning so that they glow in the dark on the way to school?

Big Red S

I think a mass shift from the entire country turning up at work at the same time and then leaving again at the same time would be a better way of solving this.

It'd partly address this, and it'd also address the bulk of the congestion problems.

Kieran_Burns

don_don wrote:

What bugs me is that every year some politician or other will suggest we stay on BST in the winter, and even go to 'double summer time' in summer. But then the usual hackneyed arguments about road safety and 'what about the Scots' come out Ultimately, no-one in government will have the balls to suggest actually giving it a try for a year or so.

I recall hearing last year (on the radio I think), that the agruments about road safety for school children were bogus, based on inaccurate and old data. I strongly suspect that tired drivers going home from work at the end of the day, are much more dangerous than at first thing in the morning.

And, if we can do business perfectly well with the rest of Europe then why not with Scotland, which could adapt its time zone to suit its latitude?

DD mate you need to check the facts first

http://www.nmm.ac.uk/explore/astronomy- ... -time-(bst)

take a look at what happened 'tween '68 and '72

C-S-B

sorry what excatly is it that bothers you about the clocks changing?? :?

Link doesnt work Kieran_Burns!

AndyManc

Yes it was tried ... and it was carp . :P

Big Red S

C-S-B wrote:

Link doesnt work Kieran_Burns!

Copy and paste the text string. This forum's got an odd idea of what constitutes a word boundary.

AndyManc

don_don wrote:

I strongly suspect that tired drivers going home from work at the end of the day, are much more dangerous than at first thing in the morning.

.

When they are half asleep ( and possibly still under the influence) and rushing into work hoping they aren't late you mean? :roll:

always_tyred

On 21 December, there is about an hour less sunlight in the main population centre of Scotland than in London, which we get back in the summer when its worth having.

It really makes no odds - my work day is the same, I've not been cycling home when bell goes at 5 for really quite some time, so its already a night ride well before the clocks change. The only difference, in fact, is that I'll get a morning ride in daylight for rather longer this way.

And for the record - it was the same when I was in England, so I don't really undertand this cobblers about Scotland.

owenlars

Norway and Sweden stay on the same time as the rest of Europe i.e. one hour ahead of us and don't seem to have much trouble with either daylight or lack of it

Big Red S

Leaving after dawn is of greater importance to me than getting home before dusk.

daniel_b

I agree, I would much rather have an extra bit of daylight towards the end of the day, on my early shift I finish at 4.30.

Only seeing daylight in your working hours is not a good thing

justresting

tried it for couple of years around '68 '69 it was bloody awful, thats why I hate it when people start talking as if it changes for no good reason.

daniel_b

justresting wrote:

tried it for couple of years around '68 '69 it was bloody awful, thats why I hate it when people start talking as if it changes for no good reason.

Out of interest what made it so bloody awful??

andrewc3142

I think it's great. Light again on the morning commute and train it back. Good compromise in the winter months and still get in 150 miles if I'm in the office all week.

What bugs me more than BST is the hour difference with Europe. I travel there quite a lot and hate the starts at seriously stupid times in the morning in order to get to meetings.

AndyManc

Farmers also like to start work early .. and they don't like wandering around in the dark till 10am, of course when they tried it last we actually had a farm industry ... and EVERYONE had a milkman.

Mine was called Ernie ... and he drove the fastest milkcart in the west .

don_don

When the British Standard Time experiment ended, the Home Office carried out an exhaustive review to find out whether it had been successful. The answer was both yes and no. There were ‘pros and cons’ to having the clocks forward and, on balance, the Government decided to return to the original British Summer Time.

This is all I can find in Kieran's article to summarise it. Hardly damning is it? Plus, I hadn't thought about the fuel saving argument, which surely is more important nowadays?

And it goes on:

After a century of daylight saving, we still cannot agree on whether it is a good thing or not. When proposals to extend the system are occasionally made in Parliament, protest soon comes from those affected by its disadvantages. Daylight Saving Time tries to treat a complex network of symptoms with one solution. But not everybody sees it as a cure. So the debate continues.

If 'those affected by its disadvantages' relates to those in the far north, then why not have two time zones in the UK like I said before? I don't see this as a 'complex network of symptoms'. It seems pretty bloody simple to me :?

Big Red S

don_don wrote:

After a century of daylight saving, we still cannot agree on whether it is a good thing or not. When proposals to extend the system are occasionally made in Parliament, protest soon comes from those affected by its disadvantages. Daylight Saving Time tries to treat a complex network of symptoms with one solution. But not everybody sees it as a cure. So the debate continues.

If 'those affected by its disadvantages' relates to those in the far north, then why not have two time zones in the UK like I said before? I don't see this as a 'complex network of symptoms'. It seems pretty bloody simple to me :?

Presumably because 'those affected by its disadvantages' doesn't mean 'those in the north'.
I'd have thought that was quite obvious.

Belv

I'm not fussed. It's not like we actually gain or lose an hour of daylight. :?

gtvlusso

Fecking farmers....."orf moi laaand"

always_tyred

don_don wrote:

When the British Standard Time experiment ended, the Home Office carried out an exhaustive review to find out whether it had been successful. The answer was both yes and no. There were ‘pros and cons’ to having the clocks forward and, on balance, the Government decided to return to the original British Summer Time.

This is all I can find in Kieran's article to summarise it. Hardly damning is it? Plus, I hadn't thought about the fuel saving argument, which surely is more important nowadays?

And it goes on:

After a century of daylight saving, we still cannot agree on whether it is a good thing or not. When proposals to extend the system are occasionally made in Parliament, protest soon comes from those affected by its disadvantages. Daylight Saving Time tries to treat a complex network of symptoms with one solution. But not everybody sees it as a cure. So the debate continues.

If 'those affected by its disadvantages' relates to those in the far north, then why not have two time zones in the UK like I said before? I don't see this as a 'complex network of symptoms'. It seems pretty bloody simple to me :?

I refer to my earlier comment questioning the "cobblers about Scotland".

Surf-Matt

Re-set all my clocks including my digi/analogue watch with an alarm - but forgot the digital bit.

So I was up and ready to go at 6am instead of 7am this morning - DOH!!

lost_in_thought

I am in two minds about this - I quite like having more light in the mornings, but dislike having to cycle home in the dark...

An ideal solution would be to move further south, and not have to worry about it.

Given the choice, I'd probably take more light in the evening over more light in the morning, but I'd struggle even more to peel myself out of bed in the dark...

Tricky.

I did enjoy the extra hour (perceived) of sleep this morning.

always_tyred

lost_in_thought wrote:

I am in two minds about this - I quite like having more light in the mornings, but dislike having to cycle home in the dark...

An ideal solution would be to move further south, and not have to worry about it.

Given the choice, I'd probably take more light in the evening over more light in the morning, but I'd struggle even more to peel myself out of bed in the dark...

Tricky.

I did enjoy the extra hour (perceived) of sleep this morning.

Yes but what hours do you work? By mid october its getting dark by 5:50-6ish anyway, and dusk is the most dangerous time to be on the roads. At least this way you get an extra month or so of bright mornings.

I think the question has to be - why change the clocks to jump forwards? After all, the change is to "British summer time" from GMT, which I thought used to be the default year round until someone figured that they could squeeze more work out of the peasants by putting the clocks forwards.





("Oh, Derek, there's some lovely filth down here")

Surf-Matt

gtvlusso wrote:

Fecking farmers....."orf moi laaand"

Fecking farmers - working their butts off for very little money to feed the nation.
Battling against hideously unfair supermarkets but toiling night and day.

Yep - fecking farmers... :roll:

cee

the clocks going back on sunday morning meant that I was able to get an extra hour in bed with a stinking hangover and still go riding in the rain at a reasonable time!

As for scotland......I like it when its dark all the time during winter, and then doesn't really get dark at all in summer!

lost_in_thought

Always Tyred wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

I am in two minds about this - I quite like having more light in the mornings, but dislike having to cycle home in the dark...

An ideal solution would be to move further south, and not have to worry about it.

Given the choice, I'd probably take more light in the evening over more light in the morning, but I'd struggle even more to peel myself out of bed in the dark...

Tricky.

I did enjoy the extra hour (perceived) of sleep this morning.

Yes but what hours do you work? By mid october its getting dark by 5:50-6ish anyway, and dusk is the most dangerous time to be on the roads. At least this way you get an extra month or so of bright mornings.

I think the question has to be - why change the clocks to jump forwards? After all, the change is to "British summer time" from GMT, which I thought used to be the default year round until someone figured that they could squeeze more work out of the peasants by putting the clocks forwards.


("Oh, Derek, there's some lovely filth down here")

I work the standard-ish 9-5:30, and don't wake up until 7:45, so the mornings are rarely really dark for me, even in the depths of winter.

In a purely selfish fashion, therefore, I would prefer a clock change to allow me a longer, lighter evening.

And you're absolutely right about dusk being dangerous...

Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds distributin' swords is no basis for a system of government! Supreme executive power derives from a
mandate from the masses, not from some farcicial aquatic ceremony!

always_tyred

Help, I'm being repressed.

lost_in_thought

cee wrote:

As for scotland......I like it when its dark all the time during winter, and then doesn't really get dark at all in summer!

You should try Finland.

Got off the plane in Helsinki at 2330 one time in July, it was not just light, it was sunny. Sunny. Until midnight. :shock:

don_don

Presumably because 'those affected by its disadvantages' doesn't mean 'those in the north'.
I'd have thought that was quite obvious.

In a purely selfish fashion, therefore, I would prefer a clock change to allow me a longer, lighter evening

I take your point Big Red, and I'm happy to admit that I'm probably coming from the same direction as LiT.

I refer to my earlier comment questioning the "cobblers about Scotland".

I only mention this because it always seems to come up when the subject is discussed in the media. I recall an MP for an area in the far north of Scotland objecting for reasons already discussed.

Yes but what hours do you work? By mid october its getting dark by 5:50-6ish anyway, and dusk is the most dangerous time to be on the roads. At least this way you get an extra month or so of bright mornings.

Accepting that not everyone works 9-5 (I don't always), it still seems to me that the first hour of extra daylight in the morning is wasted while the 9-5'ers get up, have breakfast, get the kids ready for school etc. Then you have everyone switching the lights and heating on a bit earlier in the evening, hence the energy saving argument.

I agree that by November/December it probably makes little difference, since the days are that much shorter anyway. Maybe we could compromise and delay the clock change by a month or two instead?

An ideal solution would be to move further south, and not have to worry about it.

I must start doing the lottery. New Zealand sounds nice

dirk_van_gently

I remember the BST (British standard time) experiment, late 60s, and I can't see what all the fuss was about.

It's not as though we are the only country that does this, so does most of Europe, so that kicks the "we'll be on the same time as Europe" misconception into touch.