What price a life- In the Netherlands

ademort

Well its €9340 to be precise. Three workmates were returning from the evening shift at the local aluminium factory, it was 01.00am. All three were wearing helmets and had lights which were working at the time all were keen cyclists.A motorist came along the same road as the cyclists,but travelling in the opposite direction.
The motorist fell asleep at the wheel and hit a crash barrier before hurtling accross to the opposite side of the road and fatally injuring one of the cyclists, a 45 year old married father of three. The motorist then left the scene and went home without stopping. The following morning after an appeal on local TV a mother telephoned the police to say that she was sure that it was her son who was responsible, the police arrested the man the same morning.
Today was the court case, and the accused a 25 year old man received a 240 hour community service order, had his driving license suspended for two years and was ordered to pay €9340 in compensation to the family of the deceased man. It beggars belief that somebody can cause the death of another person and drive off without stopping. This man never even got a jail sentence, an absolute joke. As i said to my colleague while cycling home tonight we are worth about one and a half months salary, and no more.

chuckcork

Sorry to hear the bad news.

Unfortunately the going rate for cyclists in the UK is considerably less.

spen666

The sum of money referred to here is (if as in England) not intended to be the value placed on the life.

This sounds like a criminal court ppunishment. There is likely to be a civil case where the full value placed on a life will be considered.

In criminal courts it is only a token gesture awarded. The defendant is unlikely to have the money to pay the full compensation that would be awarded in a civil case.

The criminal court is dealing with punishment not compensating the victim as its primary role

SCR Pedro

Hey there,

I am sick to bloody death of motorists' attitude towards cyclists.

I say bring back the gulag camps, and bring them back now. The promise of 25 years hard labour would make the morons think twice about pulling out of a junction or driving when tired.


Cheers
Pedro

nasahapley

Does seem a fairly lenient sentence (especially as they were keen cyclists wearing helmets :? ); do you have a link to the story in English?

Eat My Dust

nasahapley wrote:

Does seem a fairly lenient sentence (especially as they were keen cyclists wearing helmets :? ); do you have a link to the story in English?

What a strange thing to think. You think he should have received a harsher sentence because they were "keen" cyclists wearing helmets?

spen666

Eat My Dust wrote:

nasahapley wrote:

Does seem a fairly lenient sentence (especially as they were keen cyclists wearing helmets :? ); do you have a link to the story in English?

What a strange thing to think. You think he should have received a harsher sentence because they were "keen" cyclists wearing helmets?

I puzzled over that remark as well- I wasn't sure what it meant

nasahapley

Eat My Dust wrote:

nasahapley wrote:

Does seem a fairly lenient sentence (especially as they were keen cyclists wearing helmets :? ); do you have a link to the story in English?

What a strange thing to think. You think he should have received a harsher sentence because they were "keen" cyclists wearing helmets?

Err, no. That's the exact opposite of what I think, hence the use of the 'confused' emoticon. I wondered why those facts were included in the account, as they, along with the fact that the chap was a married father of three, have no relevance to the sentence that was handed down. I presume they were included to better trigger an emotional response from other keen cyclists and parents. So I wondered, if this irrelevant stuff was included, could there have been other relevant facts which went towards the mitigation of the ostensibly lenient sentence that were omitted. That's why I asked for a link to the story, so I could get a better grasp of the facts for myself.

Apologies for any confusion, I'll be sure to make myself clearer in future.

ademort

nasahapley wrote:

Does seem a fairly lenient sentence (especially as they were keen cyclists wearing helmets :? ); do you have a link to the story in English?

Hi I am afraid there is no link in English,but i will explain the following to members about comments made.
When the accident first occured, basic details about a cyclist being killed at 01.00am on an unlit road were published on the website of our local news provider. This immediately led to a spate of comments from readers who asked the following questions
1. Did the cyclist have lights or not. In many peoples opinion he probably never had lights and thats why he got killed, as many people cycle along that road and never use lights.
2. Was he wearing a helmet. This was also a question that people were asking. If he was not ,then maybe this would have contributed to his death.
Later that day the police issued a statement giving a much more detailed account about the accident and the cyclists involved. All three men were experienced cyclist who have worked at the same aluminium factory for over 20 years. They cycle to and from work all year round together as a group. All three were wearing helmets and had lights switched on at the time of the accident It was also revealed that the motorist was travelling in the opposite direction to the cyclists and hit the crash barrier on his side of the road before crashing into the cyclists on the other side of the road. It was also made clear that the motorist drove off without stopping and was being sought by the police. A description of the vehicle was given along with details about the damage that the vehicle is likely to have sustained..After the police had issued this statement the comments of readers also changed. Instead of negative reactions about the cyclist most people offered condolances and messages of support to the family of the deceased man.To avoid any confusion with members, only the last sentence was published on the website at the time of the trial. A hit and run death in the Netherlands, sadly gets very little publicity.Thats what makes my effing blood boil. Greetings Ademort

Nuggs

SCR Pedro wrote:

I am sick to bloody death of motorists' attitude towards cyclists.

Hold on there Pedro - this sounds to me like you're tarring a whole section of society with the same brush.

It's the same sort of attitude that brands every cyclist a crazed red-light-jumping-pavement-riding fool.

I, along with many on here, enjoy the benefits of both two and four wheels. My attitude to cyclists is exemplary and on the whole, my experience of motorists (when I'm on two wheels) has been positive.

I accept that some car drivers are dozy. However, on my way to work, I also watch a number of cyclists RLJ.

I wonder if there should be a presumption of guilt on the part of the motorist when a cyclist is hit, which the motorist then needs to discharge. A death should carry a presumption of death by dangerous driving. I know that's against the fundamental principal of innocent till proven, but I'm sure it would help focus the minds of the dangerous minority. Probably more proportionate than gulag in any case...

On the main topic of this thread: I think the sentence is appalling.

spen666

Nuggs wrote:

SCR Pedro wrote:

I am sick to bloody death of motorists' attitude towards cyclists.

Hold on there Pedro - this sounds to me like you're tarring a whole section of society with the same brush.

It's the same sort of attitude that brands every cyclist a crazed red-light-jumping-pavement-riding fool.

I, along with many on here, enjoy the benefits of both two and four wheels. My attitude to cyclists is exemplary and on the whole, my experience of motorists (when I'm on two wheels) has been positive.

I accept that some car drivers are dozy. However, on my way to work, I also watch a number of cyclists RLJ.

I wonder if there should be a presumption of guilt on the part of the motorist when a cyclist is hit, which the motorist then needs to discharge. A death should carry a presumption of death by dangerous driving. I know that's against the fundamental principal of innocent till proven, but I'm sure it would help focus the minds of the dangerous minority. Probably more proportionate than gulag in any case...

On the main topic of this thread: I think the sentence is appalling.

Nothing like blowing your own trumpet

el_presidente

Imagine if some beloved national treasure were knocked off their bike and killed. Say Bobby Charlton / Sir Trevor McDonald etc etc (these are poor examples but you get my drift)

I wonder how the media and public would react when the perpetrator was fined £250 and 6 points on their licence.

Nuggs

spen666 wrote:

Nothing like blowing your own trumpet

Well, in common with everyone I have ever met, I am a perfect driver. It's the others which are a problem!

SCR Pedro

Nuggs wrote:

SCR Pedro wrote:

I am sick to bloody death of motorists' attitude towards cyclists.

Hold on there Pedro - this sounds to me like you're tarring a whole section of society with the same brush.....

You're absolutely right, and I won't deny it. It was a short sighted opinion.
I am also sometimes surprised at the occasional motorist who almost comes to a stop to let me past on a narrow road. I guess as cyclists we have to take the rough with the smooth. Even if there is more rough than smooth; but I'm still in favour of bringing back the gulags. I'll get to work on that when I become prime minister, hehehe...

I don't know about you, but I would want my death avenged, and not with a 6 month ban and a £500 fine.

Cheers
Pedro

Nuggs

SCR Pedro wrote:

I don't know about you, but I would want my death avenged

Hell yes - preferably by a man with a mask and a sword.

ademort

The family of the deceased man have lodged an appeal against the sentence, it should be up in the courts fairly soon. (Appeals do not take long in the Netherlands)Will write and inform members as to the verdict. Greetings Ademort

spen666

ademort wrote:

The family of the deceased man have lodged an appeal against the sentence, it should be up in the courts fairly soon. (Appeals do not take long in the Netherlands)Will write and inform members as to the verdict. Greetings Ademort

Can the family of the deceased appeal a criminal sentence in Holland? Or is it the State appealing the sentence on their behalf as would happen in England & Wales

ademort

spen666 wrote:

ademort wrote:

The family of the deceased man have lodged an appeal against the sentence, it should be up in the courts fairly soon. (Appeals do not take long in the Netherlands)Will write and inform members as to the verdict. Greetings Ademort

Can the family of the deceased appeal a criminal sentence in Holland? Or is it the State appealing the sentence on their behalf as would happen in England & Wales

sorry for the confusion spen, the state are appealing the sentence on the family,s behalf. Ademort

spen666

ademort wrote:

spen666 wrote:

ademort wrote:

The family of the deceased man have lodged an appeal against the sentence, it should be up in the courts fairly soon. (Appeals do not take long in the Netherlands)Will write and inform members as to the verdict. Greetings Ademort

Can the family of the deceased appeal a criminal sentence in Holland? Or is it the State appealing the sentence on their behalf as would happen in England & Wales

sorry for the confusion spen, the state are appealing the sentence on the family,s behalf. Ademort

Cheers for that, I just was curious if they had a different sort of access to the criminal law system there.

sorry- the lawyers instinct kicks in all the time.