Pat McQuaid strikes back

mididoctors2

calvjones wrote:

I think it may be time to tear it all down.

sometimes you just have to start again

cougie

Have any sports done that before successfully ?

mididoctors2

cougie wrote:

Have any sports done that before successfully ?

no I don't think they have

lets talk ourselves up a bit

cycling is the only sport ever to really address drugs...

because it was accepted and openly discussed for much of its history...

that is why I think it can be the first clean sport..

someone has to be first...

why not our sport

Kléber

You don't need to start with some blank canvas, you just need to continue the fight. Despite the scandal from the Tour from Schumacher, Kohl, Ricco and Piepoli, many experts believed it was one of the cleanest races going. The promise of retrospective testing and new tests to check for blood manipulation practically mean no one can get through the net for 2009.

Sponsors are leaving the sport because they are promised by sly directors that their money is safe and that there will be no scandal. The same directors are then caught bulk-buying hormones like Manolo Saiz or they have a track record of doping, often without even an apology. Sponsors come into the sport when they can be promised no scandal, look at the French teams, they don't dope so no scandal, look at Garmin too, it's leading the way.

No need to chuck everything away. Much easier to chuck McQuaid away, along with about 10 DSs and 30 hangers on (doctors, soigneurs etc).

cougie

I'd like to see some restriction on employment in the Peleton - in whatever role if you've been implicated in doping. It cant be healthy to have an old guard well used to Doping looking after and advising the young riders.

We are in danger of throwing the baby out with the bath water if we act too harshly.

mididoctors2

cougie wrote:

I'd like to see some restriction on employment in the peloton - in whatever role if you've been implicated in doping. It cant be healthy to have an old guard well used to Doping looking after and advising the young riders.

We are in danger of throwing the baby out with the bath water if we act too harshly.

management is a really hard issue to grapple with.. how do you make them accountable?

I'm not adverse to throwing away the bath as well if required

cougie

I dont think management would be that hard to sort out.

Put the rule down that you need a certificate of competency to run a team or at least work on the team at Pro races.

Managers have to apply for their certificate - and it should bar anyone convicted of using drugs.

You'd probably need some kind of grace period though - so past offences cant count - but in the future - no dopers can work in the sport. Something like that anyway.

meenaghman

So McQuaid doesn't want to rejig the podium
Considering that UCI wiped all world hr records back to Mercx a few years ago, thats a bit rich. And that didn't make a mockery of the sport ?

Test and re-test samples held for 8 years. alot of these ex pros go on to become director sportifs and involved otherwise. They shouldn't be allowed to prosper and keep contaminating the sport. I'd say bring it on. Start with 2007 major tours forwards. Anyone found guilty should be banned for 2 years, and if they've stopped competing barred from positions of coach/DS etc in current teams. A line in the sand needs to be drawn.

Perhaps the problem is too big. And of course this somewhat brings into disrepute all the blood testing and profiling being done. I suspect that would be the reason McQuaid is saying this. He's afraid that the truth will just be another scandal at a time when he wants to avoid the scandal, but its only going to blow up at another time. With the world going into an economic climate and advertising the first to be hit in alot of companies I can see his point.. ie timing wise this wouldn't be great. Thats the only motivation I can see for him to do this, but in my opinion its delaying the inevitable.

blazing_saddles

Italian riders want life bans

The Italian rider's association, the AACPI, appealed to the president of the sport's governing body to punish dopers with life bans on Thursday. In a letter to International Cycling Union (UCI) president Pat McQuaid, the AACPI leaders Amedeo Colombo and Gianni Bugno called for kicking dopers out of the sport unless they cooperate with authorities as a way to help cycling regain its credibility.

Speaking for its membership of over 250 Italian professionals, the letter was a response to McQuaid's announcement that the UCI will introduce a maximum doping sanction of four years in 2009. McQuaid indicated in that statement that he would like to introduce lifetime bans for a first-time offense of willful cheating, but could not as it was not part of the World Anti-doping Agency's (WADA) rules.

The AACPI letter called attention to recent doping cases involving the new blood boosting agent Mircera by three Italians and two Germans, and demanded action.

"The positive tests of [Riccardo] Riccò, [Emanuelle] Sella, [Leonardo] Piepoli, [Stefan] Schumacher, and [Bernard] Kohl are damaging, even more so because they are champion cyclists," the letter read. "Their conduct fuels the fires of those who unjustly maintain that the only way to win cycling races nowadays is by means of doping.

"This is why the UCI needs to act to eradicate every possible illegal temptation from the movement, and thereby send out the message that anybody who wilfully cheats is out of the game for good."

The letter also called for leniency for those who cooperate with the authorities as well as punishment for the "pushers and the doping scientists".

I'd say Pat's having his n*ts squeezed.
McQuaid has also done a cosmetic U-turn on his earlier bo**ocks statement. Now says OK to re-testing, if "Conditions are right".

LangerDan

I'd put the AACPI call on the same level as a call from the equivalent Spanish body. If it wasn't for the actions of CONI and Ettore Tori, Italian cycling would be in the same state of denial as it has been for decades. Shambolic investigations, unexplained exonerations, laughable penalites. You know, like Gianni Bugno of the AACPI having a two year ban reduce to 3 months in 1994 or being cleared of a testosterone positive in '96.


Life ban, but leniency for coperation? Its probably going to be the same as the UCI charter plan to sieze a riders earnings if they were given a two year ban. End result? - Most riders are getting 18/20 month bans and their cash is safe.

skavanagh.bikeradar

I share all of your reservations, but it is still a welcome change from the usual response from a riders' organisation - silence or evasion on grounds of human rights.

Perhaps those goalposts really are in the process of shifting? If only Wiggum could LEAD the sport rather than follow apologetically....

blazing_saddles

Yes. It is impossible to rid the sport of it's past transgressors, as they inevitably move into administration.
We cannot wipe cycling's history clean, or have novices running teams etc. Look at who the one DS without a background in cycling, was: Manolo Saiz.

Why did we ever step into the anti-doping vanguard?

Instead of curing the sport, we are killing it; forced into spiraling testing regimes and increased sanctions.
For our reward, the media treats us as pariahs, our fans either leave, or become increasingly cynical or hypocritical.
Other sports? Are laughing up their sleeves, while practicing the exact, same "dark arts"; ensuring positive tests are "unique" events, rather than the "norm".

Well, we are at the forefront and well and truly in the spotlight.
So, even cosmetic statements, if some good evolves, must not be dismissed out of hand, as soon as they appear in the press.

McQuaid needs to learn to act, not react. Unfortunately, it's a bit like having Captain Ahab steering the Titanic.

humble

there is a precident for being free from a ban - Riis' admission - involved some sort of time line - didn't he fess up - just after the deadline passed?

All signals are the sport has chosen or is in the process of choosing - the path of money and the spectical - gladiators if you will. Commercial interests including gambling probably drive this. It will go the way of the Olympics and much more in common with 'professional' wrestling - than say youth sports.

If you don't get a lifetime ban - with retroactive testing - and retroactive results effects (meaning if you are caught - all your previous results are whiped out) - and a real testing program - not this 'biological passport' joke - which was made a joke of in this year - then you know - which way it is going.

The contrast between the testing results at the Giro and Vuelta - as opposed to the TDF are very telling.

I like the anology of the can of worms - with too many worms - that may be the reason Lance is coming back.

If you look at the changes in the podiums over the past 5 years - that have been made - or should have been made (if you whiped out a riders past results after he was caught - ergo - Ricco, Basso, Vino, Heras, Ulrich) - it basically turns the sport upside down - and that is a good things - for honest riders - if there are any - but McQuaid see's that as bad - and that he would even state that - is very very reveal and speaks volumes about the direction.

That McQuaid is even still in his post - after all he has not done - and all he's done - is very revealing as well.

/h

mididoctors

Blazing Saddles wrote:

McQuaid needs to learn to act, not react. Unfortunately, it's a bit like having Captain Ahab steering the Titanic.

I agree this is the crux of it

the UCI's failure to lead on the issue has thrown the ball free to be picked up by some one else

in this case ASO who are no angels on many fronts but seem to be dictating the agenda

somebody had too....

the ASO vs UCI p1ssing contest is just ripping the sport apart over this issue and its clearly the result of the UCIs corrupt and ineffectual leadership...

unwinding the drug culture out of cycling is a huge ask... why bother? good question...

at the end of the day either you do or you don't..and if we do people are going to get hurt

well they are going to get upset... boo hoo cry to mummy my cycling hero is a drug taking cheat

pffftttt!

cycling has exposed itself to attack while other sports haven't even started

it will be written we sorted this out first

Kléber

Cycling hasn't tackled the problem, mididoctors.

It was the AFLD who caught the cheats in the Tour, with the help of WADA. It took ASO sticking two fingers up at the UCI to get the AFLD on board. I'm not sure the UCI would have got them. Other cheats have been rumbled by the Spanish police, German investigators or Italian authorities. The UCI just seems to drift at best, at worst it's sweeping bad news under carpet, from the current retesting story to McQuaid's public attack on Jaksche's confessions.

The UCI's sat on its backside for years, insisting all is well. Rumours abounded of EPO abuse but they did nothing, even in the wake of the Festina scandal they said the French idea of blood passports was too expensive and impractical. Now they don't want to test the Giro and Vuelta.

I know the UCI does a lot more than oversee pro racing. But on pro racing, I can't think of a worse track record. Short of setting fire to the head office or embezzling funds don't know what the tandem of McQuaid and Verbruggen can do to make matters worse.

mididoctors

Kléber wrote:

Cycling hasn't tackled the problem, mididoctors.

I totally agree

It was the AFLD who caught the cheats in the Tour, with the help of WADA. It took ASO sticking two fingers up at the UCI to get the AFLD on board. I'm not sure the UCI would have got them. Other cheats have been rumbled by the Spanish police, German investigators or Italian authorities. The UCI just seems to drift at best, at worst it's sweeping bad news under carpet, from the current retesting story to McQuaid's public attack on Jaksche's confessions.

The UCI's sat on its backside for years, insisting all is well. Rumours abounded of EPO abuse but they did nothing, even in the wake of the Festina scandal they said the French idea of blood passports was too expensive and impractical. Now they don't want to test the Giro and Vuelta.

I know the UCI does a lot more than oversee pro racing. But on pro racing, I can't think of a worse track record. Short of setting fire to the head office or embezzling funds don't know what the tandem of McQuaid and Verbruggen can do to make matters worse.

I totally agree... again

ASO are calling the shots

it will be written we sorted this out first

aarw

Blazing Saddles wrote:

. Unfortunately, it's a bit like having Captain Ahab steering the Titanic.

I'm absolutley loving the direct comparisons used in this thread!

aurelio_-_banned

As ever CFA are on the ball with regards McQuaid`s opposition to retrospective testing...

---

McQuaid's recent unbelievable comments expressing his idiotic opposition to retro-active testing showed once and for all that he is not fully committed to ending doping in cycling. Retro-active testing is supported fully by WADA and has long been a tool for deterrence, especially for things like human growth hormone. Taking McQuaid's comments at face value, they seem to indicate that he would be perfectly happy to have allowed Kohl, Piepoli, and Schumacher to get away with their blatant doping, which is rather mind-bending if you think about it. Reassuring, isn't it, to know we have this guy in charge of the sport. Also fascinating how McQuaid actually publicly questioned the state of the samples after time had passed. Was it not only recently that the AFLD offered to test Armstrong's old samples? How convenient for Armstrong that he now gets McQuaid on his side questioning the validity of testing older samples....as if there was any doubt McQuaid is in Armstrong's pocket. Must be crowded in there.

http://cyclingfansanonymous.blogspot.com/

dennisn

aarw wrote:

Kléber wrote:

Wealth is often celebrated too. If someone was feted for his jet-set lifestyle but managed to fund this by burgling you, how would you feel if the police said "nah, three months have gone since you reported the loss, any new evidence is inadmissible, time to let sleeping dogs like", how would you feel?

Several honest riders have lost out on stage wins and podium places because of the doping cheats. They've been robbed. The UCI should be trying to find the correct winners, not sweeping problems under the carpet or seeking to protect cheats.

do you actually get to watch pro cycling with any enjoyment?

I missed this post earlier. Very well put "aarw". It certainly does ask the question "Why do they even bother watching?" They must be sitting there in a constant rage. Doesn't sound like much fun to me.

Dennis Noward

blazing_saddles

Still, it must beat not watching it at all..........

Kléber

dennisn wrote:

I missed this post earlier. Very well put "aarw". It certainly does ask the question "Why do they even bother watching?" They must be sitting there in a constant rage. Doesn't sound like much fun to me.

Stop trolling :roll:

It's perfectly possible to enjoy the sport but to want those who are making a living from running it to do a better job. Cycling's a great sport, it would be even better if it was run by people who cared about sport, health and integrity.

Arkibal

Kléber wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I missed this post earlier. Very well put "aarw". It certainly does ask the question "Why do they even bother watching?" They must be sitting there in a constant rage. Doesn't sound like much fun to me.

Stop trolling :roll:

It's perfectly possible to enjoy the sport but to want those who are making a living from running it to do a better job. Cycling's a great sport, it would be even better if it was run by people who cared about sport, health and integrity.

you gotta be kidding me, can you name a sport that was run "by people who cared about sport, health and integrity"???
I can't, money moves the world and sports, like it or not, but I guess curling would come close.

skavanagh.bikeradar

Why can't you have both? They aren't mutally exclusive. Look at top Marquee events like Wimbledon (2 weeks) or the Masters Golf (4 days plus the run up week with pro-am and 9 hole etc) these things are phenomenal money machines, but they also value and revel in a sense of what got them there - history, a lot of TLC for the brand...........

I know that the 'whole' of pro cycling is a bit bigger than those two examples but there are superb events in the calendar, the monuments as cycling calls them that have the cachet/tradition/history and potential for branding like Paris-Roubaix, LBL, Flanders, Lombardy et al and of course the longer stage races. The Tour has done it already, it's brand is so powerful to most non-cycling people it IS cycling. But cycling is richer than just the tour it's a shame the UCI does such a terrible job of marketing, cultivating, nuturing, protecting it all.

Indeed The Tour is leading the way in terms of packaging it all up and selling it and crucialy is now very aware of damage to it if it isn't believable and is doing something about it.

For me we come back to the UCI and it's continual and ongoing failure to care for things properly. You can make money and care about something. Usually the two are joined at the hip in successful organisations that have some kind of 'soul' and persist for generations. The fact that pro cycing and the Tour in particular are still doing so well despite all the knocks should tell us that if stewarded well it ought to have enourmous potential to captivate a new and larger audience.

First step is winning the PR war as well as the actual war on doping - cycling is seen as the barometer of doping in pro sport. Before it does anything else it has to change this perception and be shown to be serious and honest aobut it. And it's no good banging on about how the Premiership or Cricket or Baseball or Athletics has bigger problems they don't have the same scale of PR problem that cycling does. That's why beating the dopers is so important.

Kléber

Arkibal wrote:

you gotta be kidding me, can you name a sport that was run "by people who cared about sport, health and integrity"???
I can't, money moves the world and sports, like it or not, but I guess curling would come close.

No need to look even beyond cycling, ASO have done a much better job this year than the hapless McQuaid.

blazing_saddles

Doesn't this tell you all you need to know? It even ends on an upbeat note:-

Bodry unhappy with UCI doping controls
Pierre Bordry of French Anti-Doping Agency (AFLD) is unhappy that his agency will not be determining the doping controls for the 2009 Tour de France, and he criticized the UCI's anti-doping effectiveness.

"I didn't go to the Tour presentation because I did not wish to see UCI boss Pat McQuaid," said Pierre Bordry, president of the AFLD according to www.sportwereld.be. "I do not want to carry out checks without saying how it should be done. The UCI is going back in time, without targeted checks. "

Bordry had harsh words for the UCI and its effectiveness in catching dopers. "Between 2003 and 2007, there were no riders caught for EPO," said Bordry. "Well, I got seven in a month! The UCI didn't catch anyone, and we did. [Riccardo] Riccò was already known to have doped in the Giro d'Italia. Where were the UCI? "

Bordry said he didn't think his agency had caught everyone and cited limited resources. "Yet I believe that 80 percent of the peloton is clean."