Another London cycling tragedy

facemunk

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... article.do

this is at the top of my road, I ride this junction every day and I can honestly say it's not a good one. Every single right-turning driver ignores the yellow cross-hatch and sits in the middle, reducing space for everyone else... I don't know what happened here for this poor lad but my heart goes out to him and his family.

zanes

Sounds like they were waiting at the same traffic lights? Not sure how the yellow cross hatching would have affected this? (although it's still wrong to wait in one, obviously!)

biondino

zanes wrote:

Sounds like they were waiting at the same traffic lights? Not sure how the yellow cross hatching would have affected this? (although it's still wrong to wait in one, obviously!)

Actually it's not wrong to wait in one - waiting to turn right is one time when it's acceptable to wait in the cross-hatching - as long as you will be able to turn right before the lights go red.

facemunk

taking up space and massively reducing visibility... it bugs me. It's scares me at times too.

snooks

I used to live around the corner (well round a few corners) but I know the junction well

Do you know which way both parties involved were going?

snooks

biondino wrote:

zanes wrote:

Sounds like they were waiting at the same traffic lights? Not sure how the yellow cross hatching would have affected this? (although it's still wrong to wait in one, obviously!)

Actually it's not wrong to wait in one - waiting to turn right is one time when it's acceptable to wait in the cross-hatching - as long as you will be able to turn right before the lights go red.

I think the official line is that you should only enter a box junction if your exit is clear...

Although with that junction I've entered the box junction when my exit was clear....only for there to be a stream of left turning traffic (from morden) opposite and a car further down turning right onto the road (towards St Georges) stopping that stream of traffic, so while I entered and my exit was clear, by the time I get to turn, it's not, and I'm left hanging out to dry in the middle of a junction

Junction here:
http://www.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Blackshaw+Rd,+Wandsworth,+London+SW17,+United+Kingdom&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=13.992538,38.583984&ie=UTF8&lr=lang_en&cd=1&geocode=FRa3EAMdsUL9_w&ll=51.423552,-0.172651&spn=0.00045,0.001177&t=h&z=20

il_principe

Well either way it's very very sad. Another death involving an HGV in London...

biondino

snooks wrote:

biondino wrote:

zanes wrote:

Sounds like they were waiting at the same traffic lights? Not sure how the yellow cross hatching would have affected this? (although it's still wrong to wait in one, obviously!)

Actually it's not wrong to wait in one - waiting to turn right is one time when it's acceptable to wait in the cross-hatching - as long as you will be able to turn right before the lights go red.

I think the official line is that you should only enter a box junction if your exit is clear...

Although with that junction I've entered the box junction when my exit was clear....only for there to be a stream of left turning traffic (from morden) opposite and a car further down turning right onto the road (towards St Georges) stopping that stream of traffic, so while I entered and my exit was clear, by the time I get to turn, it's not, and I'm left hanging out to dry in the middle of a junction

Junction here:
http://www.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Blackshaw+Rd,+Wandsworth,+London+SW17,+United+Kingdom&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=13.992538,38.583984&ie=UTF8&lr=lang_en&cd=1&geocode=FRa3EAMdsUL9_w&ll=51.423552,-0.172651&spn=0.00045,0.001177&t=h&z=20

Just to clarify:

Highway Code wrote:

174 Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see 'Road markings'). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.

moonio

This is all just getting ridiculous, I need to reply to the email sent by TFL, I posted it here a shortwile back.
If anyone wants to add comments then feel free and I'll send it as an open/collective email

snooks

moonio wrote:

This is all just getting ridiculous, I need to reply to the email sent by TFL, I posted it here a shortwile back.
If anyone wants to add comments then feel free and I'll send it as an open/collective email

This is the letter I got back.....

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Thank you for your recent email regarding the dangers of HGV’s. I appreciate the time you have taken to contact us.

Transport for London (TfL) shares your concerns about cyclist safety. On the general issue of cyclists, HGVs and safety, TfL is in active discussions with the Mayor. TfL is working with partners to improve engineering, enforcement and education to make things safer for cyclists. This includes work with HGV operators and the police to highlight the problems and look for solutions.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to contact us. If I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me again.

Yours sincerely

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

But I don't know what they are actually doing

always_tyred

snooks wrote:

moonio wrote:

This is all just getting ridiculous, I need to reply to the email sent by TFL, I posted it here a shortwile back.
If anyone wants to add comments then feel free and I'll send it as an open/collective email

This is the letter I got back.....

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Thank you for your recent email regarding the dangers of HGV’s. I appreciate the time you have taken to contact us.

Transport for London (TfL) shares your concerns about cyclist safety. On the general issue of cyclists, HGVs and safety, TfL is in active discussions with the Mayor. TfL is working with partners to improve engineering, enforcement and education to make things safer for cyclists. This includes work with HGV operators and the police to highlight the problems and look for solutions.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to contact us. If I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me again.

Yours sincerely

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

But I don't know what they are actually doing

Well, whatever, they have created a standard letter - that's the same text, bar the pot hole statistics, that Moonio posted.

boybiker

I don't know what it is about London traffic but there does seem to be something very odd going on.I like to think I can handle myself pretty well in traffic but I would defo think twice before riding in London at the moment.We have traffic lights and electricity and everything outside London perhaps its just down to the traffic density.

moonio

I think its mainly down to the number of HGV's, traffic lights, lack of safety training and road awareness etc etc, I'm sure this has been covered on another thread.

Its not enough for the Mayors office to just send an email saying they are aware of the problem....
They need to actually take some action too!!

always_tyred

moonio wrote:

I think its mainly down to the number of HGV's, traffic lights, lack of safety training and road awareness etc etc, I'm sure this has been covered on another thread.

Its not enough for the Mayors office to just send an email saying they are aware of the problem....
They need to actually take some action too!!

Yeah, but you've just described pretty much any city. There must be additional factors in play in London. It does seem that there is a disproportionate rate of such incidents in London at the moment.

biondino

I'm not sure what you're expecting, Moonio - an invitation to the Mayor's Cycling Thinktank weekly meeting?

il_principe

moonio wrote:

Its not enough for the Mayors office to just send an email saying they are aware of the problem....
They need to actually take some action too!!

Especially if it's just a stock letter...

dondare

"The death comes in the wake of the Evening Standard's Safer Cycling campaign, which has called for trucks to be fitted with extra safety mirrors to prevent accidents, and more cycle-friendly streets."


Anyone aware that the ES was running a campaign?

dondare

boybiker wrote:

I don't know what it is about London traffic but there does seem to be something very odd going on.I like to think I can handle myself pretty well in traffic but I would defo think twice before riding in London at the moment.We have traffic lights and electricity and everything outside London perhaps its just down to the traffic density.

London is a very old city with a street plan that dates back to the days when nothing was bigger or faster than a coach and four. It's all too cramped and crowded for HGVs to navigate safely.

always_tyred

dondare wrote:

boybiker wrote:

I don't know what it is about London traffic but there does seem to be something very odd going on.I like to think I can handle myself pretty well in traffic but I would defo think twice before riding in London at the moment.We have traffic lights and electricity and everything outside London perhaps its just down to the traffic density.

London is a very old city with a street plan that dates back to the days when nothing was bigger or faster than a coach and four. It's all too cramped and crowded for HGVs to navigate safely.

How is that different from anywhere else though? (other than obvious exceptions like Glasgow city centre, MK, Telford, etc)