Dyson damned by Nimbys

NervexProf

Read this: http://timesonline.typepad.com/schoolga ... n-tel.html

What is it with the UK and engineers?

The man wants to help youngsters innovate, explore and make things FFS!

Is Dyson being wronged here?

Crapaud

From the article, I'd say he was wronged, but I'd be curious to know what the Environment Agency's objections were and the grounds for Baroness Andrews wanting a public enquiry. Without that info it's difficult to make a judgement.

always_tyred

Yes, what was he trying to build?

If the riverside in bath were to be blighted by a giant version of the Dyson ball with a mural of his face on it, then it wouldn't be a good thing.

There's hardly a city in the UK that hasn't had its skyline mullered by cheap, ugly public buildings, many of them associated with education.

I'd be interested to see the plans, and get a feel for what is around it.

N4PALM

I think he was planning on adding a modernised (not offensive) building onto an existing old building. The complaint was that the new part of the building wouldnt go well with the old part and the other old buildings nearby.

I could be wrong on that but I really CBA to check my facts.

el_presidente

Piloti in Private Eye has been very vocal about this, I think. Basically they wanted to take a listed building that was quite significant to Bath's heritage and tack some glass & stell eyesore onto the side. Piloti is not what you'd call a balanced comentator but it did sound somewhat out of keeping.

ris

i'm sure that from dyson's point of view it might seem that banes council did everything they could to stop the development. the site was even sold to bath spa uni while the dyson scheme was in development, only for the uni to withdraw leaving the way open (allegedly the uni withdrew because of the flood plain).

the heritage lobby in bath is vocal and pretty organised. at times it feels like the only possible future for bath is to fence it off and enforce period costume on those living and working there.

toontra

Let's not forget that planners did their very best to ruin Bath in the 60's, pulling down many Georgian terraces to make way for truly monstrous buildings - the Hilton in Walcot Street is a prime example. I for one would rather things swung the other way.

I actually worked in the said S&P building in the 70's as an accounts clerk! It was my first job, and as boring as it sounds, so I have no particular empathy with the building, but surely there is some better to sympathetically recycle it's use. Having said that, the planning department in Bath are notoriously shambolic, often taking years (literally) to decide on anything larger than a loft conversion

As for Dyson, I knew him when he started his ball wheelbarrow business in an industrial estate in Corsham in the 80's. I disliked his wheelbarrows then, I've disliked his vacuum cleaners ever since (BTW I've never seen them used commercially, which tells you something about their efficiency), and his latest "idea" is to combine the ball wheelbarrow with the vacuum cleaner. Truly a 2-trick wonder.

N4PALM

toontra wrote:

Let's not forget that planners did their very best to ruin Bath in the 60's, pulling down many Georgian terraces to make way for truly monstrous buildings - the Hilton in Walcot Street is a prime example. I for one would rather things swung the other way.

I actually worked in the said S&P building in the 70's as an accounts clerk! It was my first job, and as boring as it sounds, so I have no particular empathy with the building, but surely there is some better to sympathetically recycle it's use. Having said that, the planning department in Bath are notoriously shambolic, often taking years (literally) to decide on anything larger than a loft conversion

As for Dyson, I knew him when he started his ball wheelbarrow business in an industrial estate in Corsham in the 80's. I disliked his wheelbarrows then, I've disliked his vacuum cleaners ever since (BTW I've never seen them used commercially, which tells you something about their efficiency), and his latest "idea" is to combine the ball wheelbarrow with the vacuum cleaner. Truly a 2-trick wonder.

Thats a bit harsh. I think Dyson deserves a bit more credit than that. OK from what I hear the Dyson vac itself isnt exactly flawless but it did revolutionise the vacuum cleaner. The school he wanted to build was a noble plan for which he deserves more respect. I saw the artists impression of the building it wasnt offensive. Our country needs more engineers not just computer geeks and wanabe celeb's. I cba to debate the matter, just say that trashing Dyson like that is a bit harsh.

toontra

Maybe. I would just point out that both of Dyson's high-profile designs to date are classic cases of form over function, witnessed by the fact that people who use wheelbarrows and vacuum cleaners for a living (gardeners and cleaners) don't use Dyson products. That speaks volumes about their effectiveness.

IMO his success makes him a good salesman, not a good designer/inventor. I see more broken and abandoned Dyson vacuums littering the streets of London than any other make - or maybe its just their hideous colours make them more conspicuous.

Jez mon

His hand dryers work well. But i think most of his products are designed rather than engineered! However, this is not a particularly bad thing in his case. He has been tremendously successful because his products stand out in the marketplace.

beverick

This was on the Radio last week. The local authority don't like the style of the new building which they say is out of character with the building on which it's based, also it is not in any of the authority's recognised regeneration areas.

The Environment agency have objected to the scheme as it's in an area of "significant" flood risk (however they quantify significant) and they don't feel that the proposals for the site are adequate.

Dyson sees things differently:
http://www.dysonschool.com/

Bob

NervexProf

Thanks for all the comments; interesting to read those from folk near the proposed development.

This qoute from a Public Exhibition summed things up for me:

'The design of the building is not in keeping with the tradition of Bath, bearing in mind the new Southgate development. It is too high and will completely obliterate the views of the south facing hills from the Wells Road – it will change the face of Bath. My property will devalue by 10-20% as I will lose my view of the south facing hills and the Royal Crescent which is a good major selling point. Is Dyson going to compensate me for this value?'

With the 'service based' economy in decline, you would think that the good burgers of Bath would grab the opportunity to instil an interest in engineering in the younger generation!

As to Dyson being a salesman jibe, well I think engineers need to sell their expertise, their innovative flair.

Hoping that Dyson finds a way through this red tape wrapped debate before it is too late.

spen666

NervexProf wrote:

Thanks for all the comments; interesting to read those from folk near the proposed development.

This qoute from a Public Exhibition summed things up for me:

'The design of the building is not in keeping with the tradition of Bath, bearing in mind the new Southgate development. It is too high and will completely obliterate the views of the south facing hills from the Wells Road – it will change the face of Bath. My property will devalue by 10-20% as I will lose my view of the south facing hills and the Royal Crescent which is a good major selling point. Is Dyson going to compensate me for this value?'

With the 'service based' economy in decline, you would think that the good burgers of Bath would grab the opportunity to instil an interest in engineering in the younger generation!

As to Dyson being a salesman jibe, well I think engineers need to sell their expertise, their innovative flair.

Hoping that Dyson finds a way through this red tape wrapped debate before it is too late.

Reading your attitude to this, you sound like the sort of person who supported the proposed demolition of St Pancras station in the (I think) 1960s in the name of progress.

Just because someone wants to build something new, does not necessarily mean it is progress

NervexProf

Spen my unlearned friend! - I have no connection with St Pancras, though applaud its restoration.

You clearly failed to read this: http://www.dysonschool.com/downloads/heritage_faq.pdf

My moan, if you recall, was that the opportunity for youngsters to explore and develop a career in engineering and design was being inhibited, if not stalled by NIMBYS and red tape.

spen666

NervexProf wrote:

Spen my unlearned friend! - I have no connection with St Pancras, though applaud its restoration.

You clearly failed to read this: http://www.dysonschool.com/downloads/heritage_faq.pdf

My moan, if you recall, was that the opportunity for youngsters to explore and develop a career in engineering and design was being inhibited, if not stalled by NIMBYS and red tape.

I fully understand your point, but you appear to object to people considering that not all development isnecessarily progress.

You are quoting a self serving article as proof of the contents therin it seems. Dyson would say that wouldn't they? It does mean it is right

I fully support the right of people to object to new developments on the basis of aesthetic considerations

N4PALM

spen666 wrote:

NervexProf wrote:

Spen my unlearned friend! - I have no connection with St Pancras, though applaud its restoration.

You clearly failed to read this: http://www.dysonschool.com/downloads/heritage_faq.pdf

My moan, if you recall, was that the opportunity for youngsters to explore and develop a career in engineering and design was being inhibited, if not stalled by NIMBYS and red tape.

I fully understand your point, but you appear to object to people considering that not all development isnecessarily progress.

You are quoting a self serving article as proof of the contents therin it seems. Dyson would say that wouldn't they? It does mean it is right

I fully support the right of people to object to new developments on the basis of aesthetic considerations

Thats true. The local residents should have a say. Even if they are wrong, they should have a say. Personally I'd feel pride in having that sort of place right next door. But I guess Bath has enough history and culture and whatnot to feel pride and superiority over.

If it was a big blue building with giant yellow letters spelling IKEA all over it im sure it would have been built already. Theres not one place where one of those buildings has been errected where is hasnt been an eyesore.

singlespeedexplosif

I don't think Dyson can complain about NIMBYs. After all, he didn't want his own manufacturing plant in his back yard...;)

Stewie Griffin

singlespeedexplosif wrote:

I don't think Dyson can complain about NIMBYs. After all, he didn't want his own manufacturing plant in his back yard...;)

He didnt even want it in his own country

"It's a real shame that we've been forced to shelve the Dyson School project in Bath" No laying off 600 staff is a real shame.

spen666

N4PALM wrote:

....
...
If it was a big blue building with giant yellow letters spelling IKEA all over it im sure it would have been built already. Theres not one place where one of those buildings has been errected where is hasnt been an eyesore.

Lakeside at Thurrock? It was such an eyesore that an IKEA had to be an improvement, similarily @ Edmonton



steps back quietly whilst local are revolting [probably why areas are such eyesores though]
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

ris

it might be worth noting that on some recent developments in bath the objections have been in the majority from people outside bath. this is what happens when a well organised lobby group (quite often heritage based in bath) gets going - it involves a lot of people for whom the scheme does not directly affect.

speaking personally, the dyson scheme is far less of an eyesore than the southgate development. this paper thin neoclassical nonsense is going to be the welcome to the people who visit bath and to me states the aspiration for the place - as unchallenging as possible.

the saddest thing of all for me is that if the flood plain issue is a genuine bar to develoment then this bit of listed fabric is likely to go to the dogs eventually. then you get the worst of both worlds - no saved heritage and no engineering academy.

david2

Why does Bath need this school anyway. Not like its a deprived area suffering from manufacturing's decline is it?

Would make more sense to set it up in Bristol or Swindon.

I used to work at S & P in the 1980s, was there when it was shut down. I had to get on my bike and find work elsewhere (making condom machines in rural Gloucestershire).

When I return to Bath now it never really shows signs of suffering from the loss of its manufacturing heritage.

Special K

david2 wrote:

Why does Bath need this school anyway. Not like its a deprived area suffering from manufacturing's decline is it?

Would make more sense to set it up in Bristol or Swindon.

I used to work at S & P in the 1980s, was there when it was shut down. I had to get on my bike and find work elsewhere (making condom machines in rural Gloucestershire).

When I return to Bath now it never really shows signs of suffering from the loss of its manufacturing heritage.

A good point well made.

Either way though, some kids were going to get some opportunities, and now will have to look elsewhere for inspiration and practical support and instruction. And we know how good youngsters are at doing this for themselves...