When will we hear of these CSC positives ?

moray_gub

A week or so back a good few posters round these parts were forecasting a rake of positives for these this team, you know the guff.......Spartacus,Stuey,Jens etc etc ...........so i was just wondering when the announcements will be ?


cheers
MG

timoid.

You've got me. CSC must be clean.

Bo Hamburger was acquited of all doping charges in 02

Jalabert, Holm, Skibby, Rassmussen, Hamilton, Jakshe, Basso never tested positive while at CSC

Bartoli is not Sansone

Schleck was only getting training plans from Fuentes and RIis was not present at the meeting

deal

All this proves is they were not on Cera, lets not forget there was something in the blood profiles that looked an awful lot like doping, i will wait until this autologous blood transfusion test is used before im willing to call them clean.

stagehopper

deal wrote:

All this proves is they were not on Cera, lets not forget there was something in the blood profiles that looked an awful lot like doping, i will wait until this autologous blood transfusion test is used before im willing to call them clean.

But we don't know if there was something in the CSC blood profiles. On the contrary as it seems there weren't any CSC riders on the CERA re-test list, it suggests the blood profiles were within acceptable standards and thus gave no indication of doping.

richard wants a baum

Did we ever get a offical list of the riders being retested? or was it just one of those internet rumour things that is immediately taken as gosspel

deal

Cancellera was tested 8 times times at the tour.

teagar

Certainly means they thought something was up if they targetted him that much. He didn't win anything after all.

jimmythecuckoo

richard wants a baum wrote:

Did we ever get a offical list of the riders being retested? or was it just one of those internet rumour things that is immediately taken as gospel

You mean sometimes internet rumours aren't true?

Kléber

teagar wrote:

Certainly means they thought something was up if they targetted him that much. He didn't win anything after all.

Cancellara will now be awared the win for Stage 20, the final TT as that was won by Schumacher.

moray_gub

Timoid. wrote:

You've got me. CSC must be clean.

Bo Hamburger was acquited of all doping charges in 02

Jalabert, Holm, Skibby, Rassmussen, Hamilton, Jakshe, Basso never tested positive while at CSC

Bartoli is not Sansone

Schleck was only getting training plans from Fuentes and RIis was not present at the meeting

So no new positives then ?

cheers
Mg

moray_gub

richard wants a baum wrote:

Did we ever get a offical list of the riders being retested? or was it just one of those internet rumour things that is immediately taken as gosspel

Internet rumour and gossip in here based mostly on their ability to pull on the early hills and then drop off.................something tour domestiques having being doing for the best part of 100 years.

cheers
MG

iainf72

Moray Gub wrote:

Internet rumour and gossip in here based mostly on their ability to pull on the early hills and then drop off.................something tour domestiques having being doing for the best part of 100 years.

Wrong. rumours, in a couple of cases, were based on the AFLD TARGET testing certain people based on their pre-race blood tests and based on information reported in the press. The AFLD retested suspicious samples as a part of this round of testing.

Would being tested 8 times not suggest they found a sample suspicious?

dave_1

will WADA bring forward Ashenden's carb monoxide test that Lemond mentioned? Surely would close a big loophole before the drug enhanced put hundreds on the dole next year?

moray_gub

iainf72 wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

Internet rumour and gossip in here based mostly on their ability to pull on the early hills and then drop off.................something tour domestiques having being doing for the best part of 100 years.

Wrong. rumours, in a couple of cases, were based on the AFLD TARGET testing certain people based on their pre-race blood tests and based on information reported in the press. The AFLD retested suspicious samples as a part of this round of testing.

Would being tested 8 times not suggest they found a sample suspicious?

I am refering to why they were rumours flying around here at TDF time, mostly based on what i said earlier, the testing frequency arguement came later.

cheers
MG

iainf72

Moray Gub wrote:

I am refering to why they were rumours flying around here at TDF time, mostly based on what i said earlier, the testing frequency arguement came later.

There was some reporting during the Tour about how many times Frank and Chinny were tested.

I do agree that condemning someone for pulling on the front on the mountains is a bit flawed. However, a "clean" team being the best team in the world has got to raise even your eyebrows.

calvjones

Wot Iain said. I think it was the fact that they weren't just pulling on the early hills, but on all the hills apart from the last one. All of them. Cancellara, for example, seemed to last longer into the mountain stages at the Tour than Kloeden did at the Vuelta. Which is surely worth a bit of a :shock: , no?

I really can't be @rsed reopeniong what became quite a nastly argument on the basis CSC are clean because they don't take CERA.



However... you could argue that if they had a systematic blood doping programme, CERA would be surplus to requirements


[lights blue touch paper etc. etc. and so on]

calvjones

Wot Iain said. I think it was the fact that they weren't just pulling on the early hills, but on all the hills apart from the last one. All of them. Cancellara, for example, seemed to last longer into the mountain stages at the Tour than Kloeden did at the Vuelta. Which is surely worth a bit of a :shock: , no?

I really can't be @rsed reopeniong what became quite a nastly argument on the basis CSC are clean because they don't take CERA.



However... you could argue that if they had a systematic blood doping programme, CERA would be surplus to requirements


[lights blue touch paper etc. etc. and so on]

CyclingBantam

Although Cancellara was lasting longer on the mountains I seem to remember he ws only making it to the last col then dying before hauling himself in minutes down. To me for a pretty good rider like he is that does not see too surprising.

It clearly looked to hit him a bit judging by the way he was convincingly beaten in the TT (Admittedly by a super charged Schumacer)

dennisn

How is it determined who gets tested and why? Is there a specific rule that says the first
three finishers in a stage go for testing, or something along those lines? Or is it some sort of lotto or drawing numbers out of a hat type of thing? Does some person or group
select who gets tested at any given time? Do pretty much all riders get tested equally
during the tour or is it mostly top finishers? It would seem that if only the riders that are up in the standings get tested that "water carriers" and such could be just as guilty as
the "stars" yet not be subjected to intense testing because they always fall off the back near the end of a stage. All things considered it would seem that they do a tremendous
amount of work too. Perhaps as much, maybe more than the "stars" and if the "stars"
are on something, well, just keeping up with water deliveries would probably require
a bit of "help". Am I making any sense?

Dennis Noward

derby

dennisn wrote:

Am I making any sense? Dennis Noward

This is a trick question, right?

dave_1

Did columbia or CSC have any +s this season, or astant or Garmin? ..maybe just maybe some credit where credit is due? That said, does anyone think the 1980s-1990s riders now management should quielty leave the sport ...how fit are they to hold management positions based on their past? I'd rather some amateur come in and run the team than EPO users of the 90s

dennisn

derby wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Am I making any sense? Dennis Noward

This is a trick question, right?

You're right. It is a trick question. Who in their right mind thinks I make any sense?
The other questions are legit though. I do not know how it all works. :? :?

Dennis Noward

andyp

Dennis - I'm not sure of the exact rules of the top of my head but generally in a UCI approved stage race the top 3 finishers on each stage, the race leader and 3 random riders are required to provide samples to the testers.

I'm not sure what procedures the Tour de France used this summer given it was held outside of the UCI's rules but I'd expect it to be something similar.

Bronzie

Interesting quote from the Anne Gripper interview in Cycling Weekly:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/Ann ... 69872.html

Cycling Weekly wrote:

CW: Frank Schleck is alleged to have made a payment to Dr Eufamiano Fuentes but has been racing while his former team-mate Ivan Basso has been suspended. It doesn't get any easier to draw a line in the sand. If Schleck is found to have made a payment to Fuentes or broken the anti-doping rules in any way, will he be sanctioned?

AG: The supposed bank transfer happened in March 2006, which ties in with the time frame that bank payments were being made to Fuentes.

If he [Schleck] is found guilty of an anti-doping rule violation, of course he will be sanctioned. If he is found to have been doing what others were doing, then he will be sanctioned, but we won't know until we have more information. But it is worth considering that Schleck has been part of the [Rasmus] Damsgaard programme since the start of 2007 and he's been part of the biological passport system this year. When you put those two bodies of results together it's highly probable that he has not been doing anything untoward, but that doesn't mean he would escape sanction for a past offence.

ddraver

Dave_1 wrote:

Did columbia or CSC have any +s this season, or astant or Garmin? ..maybe just maybe some credit where credit is due? That said, does anyone think the 1980s-1990s riders now management should quielty leave the sport ...how fit are they to hold management positions based on their past? I'd rather some amateur come in and run the team than EPO users of the 90s

I think thats fair - I don't want to sound rosey eyed either - CSC were using their domestiques the way cyclists have always done, that fab was tested 8 times and not found positive, coupled with the fact that he did nt ride out of the ordinary (for him) has to be taken as a good sign - likewise columbia never really competed in the hills, whashisface only competed on short sharp climbs followed by sprints rather, and then hid in the peleton the next day

This behavoir is approaching normality.....not going to comment on Astant though as i dind nt watch enough

timoid.

He was tested 8 times because of his unusual blood profile.

Also when was the last time he climbed so well? I think he rode a little bit out of the ordinary. He reminded me of the surprise I felt watching Mazzolini in the Giro in 07.

I like Cancellara, he's one of the most exciting riders in the bunch, but I don't for a minute think he's clean or that most of the top riders are clean for that matter.

andy_wrx

ddraver wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

CSC were using their domestiques the way cyclists have always done

Yes, but such is CSC's strength that they can run riders like Cancellara, Voigt and at least one of the Schlecks as domestigues...

Cut out those other teams who were after single-stage glory and how many other strong teams were there ?