Which of these two wheels would you buy?
Jamey
Posts: 2,152
Like a true consumer, I'm already contemplating a new rear wheel before I've even received the old one back from being fixed.
The question is whether to splash out on a handbuilt or opt for the same rim but on a pre-built, off-the-shelf thingy... So which of these two wheels would you buy for your one and only bike that gets used for commuting, weekend rides and everything else?
Wheel 1 (£90): Off-the-shelf M:Wheel jobby with Deore hub and Mavic A719 rim.
Wheel 2 (£230): Handbuilt by Wheelsmith.co.uk, hope pro3 hub and Mavic A719 rim.
I realise, of course, that the right thing to do is wait until the old wheel returns from being rebuilt by Specialized, give it a few weeks and see how it goes but that answer is no fun and doesn't involve buying anything new for the bike
The question is whether to splash out on a handbuilt or opt for the same rim but on a pre-built, off-the-shelf thingy... So which of these two wheels would you buy for your one and only bike that gets used for commuting, weekend rides and everything else?
Wheel 1 (£90): Off-the-shelf M:Wheel jobby with Deore hub and Mavic A719 rim.
Wheel 2 (£230): Handbuilt by Wheelsmith.co.uk, hope pro3 hub and Mavic A719 rim.
I realise, of course, that the right thing to do is wait until the old wheel returns from being rebuilt by Specialized, give it a few weeks and see how it goes but that answer is no fun and doesn't involve buying anything new for the bike
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If your a snob like me, theres no real contest. Handbuilt all the way. If your poor like me, you go with what you can afford....
FCN 3 or 4 on road depending on clothingjedster wrote:Just off to contemplate my own mortality and inevitable descent into decrepedness.
FCN 8 off road because I'm too old to go racing around.0 -
Oh, I should have mentioned that I'm a massive fat bloke with two heavy panniers who has been having a lot of trouble with his current rear wheel and just wants something immensely strong and reliable that will last for ages and not go out of true very often.0
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Jamey wrote:Like a true consumer, I'm already contemplating a new rear wheel before I've even received the old one back from being fixed.
The question is whether to splash out on a handbuilt or opt for the same rim but on a pre-built, off-the-shelf thingy... So which of these two wheels would you buy for your one and only bike that gets used for commuting, weekend rides and everything else?
Wheel 1 (£90): Off-the-shelf M:Wheel jobby with Deore hub and Mavic A719 rim.
Wheel 2 (£230): Handbuilt by Wheelsmith.co.uk, hope pro3 hub and Mavic A719 rim.
I realise, of course, that the right thing to do is wait until the old wheel returns from being rebuilt by Specialized, give it a few weeks and see how it goes but that answer is no fun and doesn't involve buying anything new for the bike
Answering a question with a question, what about 719s on XT with DB DT-Swiss spokes from Merlin for £76?
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Underscore wrote:Answering a question with a question, what about 719s on XT with DB DT-Swiss spokes from Merlin for £76?
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Hmmm... Even with the pro3 hub Merlin are still cheaper... But does their guy build wheels as well as Wheelsmith?
Also, two possibly stupid questions...
1) Merlin's rim options have XM719 instead of A719... What's the difference?
2) Someone told me black spokes were weaker than silver ones. Is that true?0 -
Jamey wrote:Underscore wrote:Answering a question with a question, what about 719s on XT with DB DT-Swiss spokes from Merlin for £76?
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Hmmm... Even with the pro3 hub Merlin are still cheaper... But does their guy build wheels as well as Wheelsmith?
Also, two possibly stupid questions...
1) Merlin's rim options have XM719 instead of A719... What's the difference?
2) Someone told me black spokes were weaker than silver ones. Is that true?
Oops. Didn't notice the 'A' - I think that means they are 700c instead of 26" - so no point trying Merlin.
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Jamey wrote:Underscore wrote:Answering a question with a question, what about 2) Someone told me black spokes were weaker than silver ones. Is that true?
Marginally/theoretically.
Black spokes are the same diameter as silver spokes. The spoke's natural colour is silver, so some of the width of the black spoke is neccesarily colouring.
In the real world, it doesn't make any difference. The build and maintenance is far more important.0 -
Cheers S
Only two votes on the poll? I guess you're all riding home about this time... taunting me with your bikes that work flawlessly every day... Sob.0 -
I have zero idea about the quality of the wheels you mention, so not much point me commenting! Personally I think hand-built is a bit snake-oily but then I've never used them 0
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Jamey,
If you have some handbuilt wheels made by a respectible builder he can build anything you want. So why choose a specific combination?
If you are heavy and having wheel problems i would recommend talking to a wheelbuilder about a wheel with 36 spokes rather than something lightweight. I have built wheels for people weighing over 300 pounds using road bike components and they have had no problems.
Machine built wheels are usually not as reliable but you can spend your money and find out. I guess you can chalk it up to the cost of learning.
If you went to the park bike course they should have covered at least a little bit about Wheel theory.
If you are interested in bicycle mechanics and wheel building there are a couple book that can help.
The art of wheelbuilding by Gerd Schraner and The bicycle wheel by Jobst Brandt.0 -
1960ride wrote:If you have some handbuilt wheels made by a respectible builder he can build anything you want. So why choose a specific combination?.
I did go to a wheelbuilder. I gave him a full description of what I was after and he recommended Hope pro3 hubs with a Mavic A719 rim and ACI duplex spokes. He also said it would be "better to go 4x each side" but I've no idea what that means... Anyone?
The course I did wasn't the Park one and it didn't cover wheelbuilding.0 -
1960ride wrote:Machine built wheels are usually not as reliable
Nah, not these days, machine built wheels are more consistent - so if they are good design they'll be reliable, if they are a rubbish they'll all break,
Just make sure you get the well designed ones........0 -
redddraggon wrote:Just make sure you get the well designed ones........
Recommend me some then... Need to be able to take a 32mm tyre... 700c.0 -
Oh, and that M:Wheel thing (with the XT hub) - is that compatible with 9-speed cassettes? Only I ended up with one on my old bike and that was an 8-speed... Do they both use the same width/positioning for the cassette?0
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8 spd and 9spd cassettes are the same width as far as i am aware. The cogs and chain are narrower on 9spd to fit.0
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I've just been informed the Deore XT hub is likely to be a 135mm axle and therefore that wheel is for a hybrid rather than my Tricross which apparently requires 130mm axles.
Does that sound right to you guys?0 -
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If it helps, these were his (the chap at Wheelsmith) exact words and he was answering a question about the M:Wheel off-the-shelf thing I mentioned in the opening post:
"The Deore hub is 135mm spacing so unless they have changed the axle to a
road-bike spacing (130mm between the dropouts) then its for a hybrid bike I would say."0 -
Right then, my final decision was to go for a hand built wheel but with an Ultegra 6600 hub instead of the pro3 to cut down the cost.
Derek at Wheelsmith.co.uk is building it for me and I should have it next week.
Full spec:
Rim: Mavic A719, black, 700c
Hub: Shimano Ultegra 6600, 36-hole
Spokes: ACI Duplex in a cross-4 (4x) pattern.
Total cost = £100 delivered.
Will let you know my thoughts when it arrives and I've had a few rides on it.0 -
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The main difference will be that any shimano hub uses cup and cone bearings, whereas Hope uses cartridge bearings. I've gone through several XT hubs, but have an old set of Hope sport hubs that are at least 5 years old and still going strong with no need for new bearings, or any maintenance come to that
Plus you'll be supporting a british co. with a reputation for great customer service. pain is temporary, the glory of beating your mates to the top of the hill lasts forever.....................
Revised FCN - 20 -
+1 for Hope Pro3 hubs.Rich158 wrote:The main difference will be that any shimano hub uses cup and cone bearings, whereas Hope uses cartridge bearings. I've gone through several XT hubs, but have an old set of Hope sport hubs that are at least 5 years old and still going strong with no need for new bearings, or any maintenance come to that Plus you'll be supporting a British co. with a reputation for great customer service.0 -
Guys, it's now far too late, though I've noted your points about cartridge bearings for the future.0
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Your wrong about the Hope hubs, the flange is far too narrow for a strong 700c low-profile rim to be build strong enough. They are basically a mtb disc hub with the disc mount machined off by the looks of it. Some reports of the shells splitting open too. I wouldn't touch them unless its a deep section rim you are using.
The don't make 'em like they used to ye-naa.0 -
Jamey wrote:I've just been informed the Deore XT hub is likely to be a 135mm axle and therefore that wheel is for a hybrid rather than my Tricross which apparently requires 130mm axles.
Does that sound right to you guys?
I've been using a 9 speed hub on a 7 speed frame for about 8 years. I believe that the axle widths are different (125mm vs. 130mm? anyone?) and its not a problem for the frame. The chain line was never absolutely perfect, but then it never was on my handbuilt road bike either..
5 mm flex (2.5mm each side) in your rear triangle is not going to be a problem, and neither will indexing, you just might get a bit of chain rub at the front when you are crossing gears.0 -
Yes, but pulling out the stays on a 130 alloy road frame to take a 135mm MTB hub might cause a bit of a problem. In fact I would suggest you avoid that. The Ultegra hub is fine for the purpose intended above.0
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How does this follow from "Yes,"?leloby wrote:but pulling out the stays on a 130 alloy road frame to take a 135mm MTB hub might cause a bit of a problem. In fact I would suggest you avoid that. The Ultegra hub is fine for the purpose intended above.
Are you Arsene Wenger? I always wondered what you did to keep fit. You definitely need a new midfielder, by the way.0 -
Yes, I always put 110% into my answers. This is a great forum don't you think?0
