cleats

sad Bastad

Having taken advice from this forum 6 months or so ago I invested in a Condor Fratello for my 23 mile round trip commute.
I decided to take the plunge and have clipless pedals and, as I'd read that Time allowed more float, which might be of benefit to my dodgy knee, I asked Condor to fit that make.
I've fallen off a number of times, most recently when I've had to stop unexpectedly. I've revisited the rather poorly translated instructions (a non-English speaking Taiwanese with a dictionary as far as I can tell) and to unclip it states to rotate the foot outwards.
Does it mean the toe or the heel? I've been rotating my toe out and my heel in which seems to take an inordinate amount of effort. Going the other way sems a rather awkward and unnatural movement - but I've got the horrible feeling that this is what I should be doing! Please help!

While I'm writing, I should say that I'm very happy with my Condor apart from one aspect. I'm 5'8" and the bike has a 52cm frame. When I turn the wheel it fouls my feet if they are at quarter to three. In fact this has contributed to one of my aforementioned "offs". Why has the bike got this strange geometry?

Thanks for your advice.

Big Red S

Either works - the act of the cleat rotating releases the binding mechanism.

I've developed an odd habit of rotating my left heel out and my right heel in...

Wrath Rob

I rotate both heels away from the frame. I've got some Time pedals and I've never had any issues with them, though I would say you have to rotate your feet more than I did with my SPDs

Big Red S

Wrath Rob wrote:

you have to rotate your feet more than I did with my SPDs

Yeah, that's a natural consequence of more float. In fact, it's the definition, really...

biondino

Heels away from the frame. It very quickly becomes natural. It always reminds me of coming to a halt when skiing.

Also, on a lot of bikes, especially smaller ones, your foot comes into contact with the front wheel when you're turning it sharply. Especially if you have big feet If you think about it, it's a function of the geometry of a bike - they're designed to minimise it but since wheels don't shrink, as the frame gets smaller the pedals get closer to the front wheel.

However, it shouldn't be a big issue because you should never make such a big turn when going at any sort of speed (you'll fall off, for one), and at low speed, you can avoid it fairly easily.

sc999cs

Rotating the heel out is a better technique to develop (IMO) because your toes stay in contact with the pedal more and you can adjust your foot position very slightly so that you're still using the pedals but not clipped in. This is useful for approaching junctions or if you have to slow down for pedestrians or lights etc.

biondino

Bear in mind unclipping should be very easy, foolproof and, after a while, utterly automatic. If it isn't, you're doing it wrong, most likely.

Bugly

"While I'm writing, I should say that I'm very happy with my Condor apart from one aspect. I'm 5'8" and the bike has a 52cm frame. When I turn the wheel it fouls my feet if they are at quarter to three. In fact this has contributed to one of my aforementioned "offs". Why has the bike got this strange geometry? "

Not a strange geometry at all this is very common on small bikes with a racing geometry. 700c wheels + steep head angle + short frame = toe to wheel overlap.

redddraggon

I rotate my feet inwards, and it's fine - however I don't have the rotation to twist my feet outwards anyway.

always_tyred

Heel out, definitely, unequivocally. Out out out. In is wrong. Heel out is the way to do it, as per instructions. Same with all pedal designs.

Hope that's clear.

In runs the risk of fouling the chain rings or the crank arm. Pedals release both ways in order that you do not remain attached to the bike as it flies through the air.

If you are struggling, back off the spring tension in the pedals.

(All of the foregoing not applying to anyone who is a student from north Wales who has good biomechanical reasons for not unclipping outwards)

ris

i started using spd-sl's (similar to time cleats) having used spd's for a while.

the main difference i have noticed is the force needed to get the cleat out of the pedal, and how the angle of the foot can help. i find that if i point my toes downward a bit then the cleat seems to release a bit easier, but i'm sure that everyone has different ways of getting their feet out.

i can't imagine turning the heels inward as i'm not sure i could generate enough rotation, outward seems more natural to me.

as others have already said, toe overlap is pretty normal with compact geometry frames, i get it on my 56cm allez (allegedly a large frame according to the sticker).

Kieran_Burns

The way I figured it was that you rotate your heel outwards to get off the bike, so this is the logical way to unclip yourself.

Also, as said above - you keep your feet more ON the pedal for longer if you use this method.

sad Bastad

Many thanks.
Will have to try to practise rotating my heel outwards, although it doesn't come naturally to me.

Just one last point - my Time pedals don't seem to have the 3 positions for spring stiffness outlined in the instructions. I guess this feature is only ony the top of the range model. Is there any other way to adjust the tension?

ris

which model are they? with the shimano models i have (for both the spd and the spd-sl) there is a small allen key hole for turning to set the tension and a red marker which shows what setting it is on.

ansbaradigeidfran

Always Tyred wrote:

(All of the foregoing not applying to anyone who is a student from north Wales who has good biomechanical reasons for not unclipping outwards)

Who, me?

The only reason I can think of a lack of cleats. Is that biomechanical? :P

linsen

I only ever unclip one at a time. Left first, that way I always remeber to lean left and have (so far) avoided that embarassing "lean one way, having unclipped the other way" thing. My husband has done that enough for the both of us, so I learned the easy way!

Jen J

linsen wrote:

I only ever unclip one at a time. Left first, that way I always remeber to lean left and have (so far) avoided that embarassing "lean one way, having unclipped the other way" thing. My husband has done that enough for the both of us, so I learned the easy way!

That was me yesterday. Unclip left. Lean right. Hmmmm....

linsen

You know what they say though - "pride somes before a fall". I give it a week before it happens to me! (but at least a month before I admit it!)

the_hundredth_idiot

Toe overlap is definitely a problem - but not sure if it is worse on a Fratello than other bikes. During slow speed emergency evasion this morning (unexpected manoevure from a white van), I caught my toes on on the front wheel. I stayed on okay but 20 yards down the road I heard a squeaking sound and turns out my front mudguard needed a bit of "encouragement" to move away from the tyre. I'll sort it out properly at the weekend.

edhornby

I commute with SPDs and I've not had many wobble incidents - one thing to try is to clip out well in advance (about 30secs) of stopping and ride along with your instep on the pedal so that it's ready to put down - so you're not worrying about unclipping at the same time as you stop at the junction

incidentally, I notice that when I pull up hard on the pedals it sometimes makes a click, is this normal?

biondino

Really 30 seconds in advance? Certainly on a London commute you'd never be in your pedals? Surely 5 seconds is enough. Personally I'm very happy to unclip as I come to a halt as it's good for it to become second nature, and will help in the event of an emergency stop.

Not sure the pedal should be clicking, no. Are the cleats secured properly, and is the part of the shoe they're secured to still rigid and unbroken? And are you sure it's the pedals rather than, say, the bottom bracket?

alien

I went through SPD, SPD-SL and have settled on Speedplay Frogs as my pedal of choice.

they are very floaty but very easy to get in/out - there is no spring tension to fight and this is very very nice indeed for getting out fast.

I'm now debating putting the frogs on my road bike! or whether I should try something else in the Speedplay range.

andrewjoseph

You may find it easier to unclip at the bottom of the pedal stroke, you then use your whole leg to unclip (rotating from ball and socket hip joint).

trying to unclip at the top or middle of the stroke means you are trying to twist from the knee, not a good idea.

I usually unclip my right foot first, as I'm slowing for the obstacle, half a rotation later I may unclip my left depending on conditions, I then put the pedals at 3 and 9 o'clock and stand up, almost ready to dismount, slow to a stop and try to track stand for as long as I can, I then put right foot down after I've come to a complete stop.

el_presidente

biondino wrote:

Really 30 seconds in advance? Certainly on a London commute you'd never be in your pedals? Surely 5 seconds is enough. Personally I'm very happy to unclip as I come to a halt as it's good for it to become second nature, and will help in the event of an emergency stop.

My usual procedure is:

stop > attempt wobbly trackstand for 20 seconds > give up, unclip, foot down > ligts go green 2 seconds later