I'm not suprised by the vitriol

downfader

As some of you know I put up some videos on youtube of some naughty drivers (and other road users too come to think of it) and have had plenty of positive responses - mostly from other cyclists tbh.

Every now and again I delight in reading some of those less than polite reponses. It amazes me that something that is done to try and ecourage road safety, or show curiosities, seems to attract such vitriol. You'd think I'd just been caught boiling their baby.

This week one guy called me s "FREEK!" so I sent back a private message that the young gent should learn to spell if he's intending insult. Hehe, and today I got "Is that what you do drive around filming drivers you looser!"

So I just sent a PM with this to said nameless user (who has obviously set up a special account just to insult people):

You know, you could upload videos of your own before you start mouthing off and judging me instead of hiding behind the facade of your youtube account.

Atleast I am doing SOMETHING to try and encourage road safety. What have you done? Have you ever been hit by a car, or seen the damage that a driver's impatience or lack of concern has caused? I have experienced both.

My intention was never initially to film drivers. My intention was to make sure that if I was hit and I was unable to tell what had happened that the camera would take over and tell for me. I am not the only one, cyclists, motorcyclists and drivers are all coming into this frame of thought.

The camera also stops disputes as to who was to blame when insurance and the police are involved.

So before you go mouthing off please take a moment to consider WHY a person takes an action. Personally I dont see how it affects you.

downfader

Strangely they go silent or seem reticent to engage in logical debate. (BTW I should point out I was jesting with the spelling, christ knows I'm terrible at this myself )

chuckcork

I think mate that filming what is happening in the traffic around you can be described as a legitimate act of self-defence, given that in the event of any accident caused by a driver their lawyers will seek to minimise any blame on their clients part, and maximise any wrong-doings of your own, while ignoring any (if there were any) witness statements to the contrary, and seeking to minimise the damage their clients has caused, which is to say, minimise the penalty he/she has to suffer for their dangerous driving, because the consequences suffered by someone else seem to irrelevant when it comes to motoring offences.

Pauses for breath.

Personally between jobs at the moment, enjoying when I can quieter spins around East Cork on quieter, mostly single track roads, which really slows down the traffic. Get to enjoy some good hill climbs, smile at babies in prams out with their mothers, pretty girls walking their dogs, nice views around the coast of East Cork and so on.

Far from the commuting hell that is London traffic.

Bliss.

boybiker

I don't really know what response you expect from these people. Its a good job you weren't filming me last night as I jumped two sets of lights and rode on about 6 foot of pavement as I was late for my training run. Luckily I wasn't in my club gear so I didn't bring the wrath of the drivers on to the club.

Jez mon

Dude, it's YouTube, no one takes it seriously. I appriciate what you are trying to do, but unfortunately filming strangers doing naughty things and then putting it on t'internet just sounds wrong.

Stewie Griffin

Jez mon wrote:

Dude, it's YouTube, no one takes it seriously. I appriciate what you are trying to do, but unfortunately filming strangers doing naughty things and then putting it on t'internet just sounds wrong.

I have wanted to be able to tell some drivers to type their own registration number into youtube later that evening so that they could see themselves driving or behaving like tools.

downfader

Jez mon wrote:

Dude, it's YouTube, no one takes it seriously. I appriciate what you are trying to do, but unfortunately filming strangers doing naughty things and then putting it on t'internet just sounds wrong.

It aint wrong, it aint ilegal and aint immoral

Still a democracy here in the uk, so we have every right to document, educate and be educated. Until that changes I dont see why I should leave the camera at home.

Boybiker, consider your actions as a result of you being late, and the consider what you would think if you saw a driver do the same because he/she was pushed for time. Law is law and you should respect that.

Spent last night winding up trolls. Man did one REALLY bite The emails stopped at 10pm so I presume his mum told him to go to bed.

mcmullej

chuckcork wrote:

I think mate that filming what is happening in the traffic around you can be described as a legitimate act of self-defence, given that in the event of any accident caused by a driver their lawyers will seek to minimise any blame on their clients part, and maximise any wrong-doings of your own, while ignoring any (if there were any) witness statements to the contrary, and seeking to minimise the damage their clients has caused, which is to say, minimise the penalty he/she has to suffer for their dangerous driving, because the consequences suffered by someone else seem to irrelevant when it comes to motoring offences.

Pauses for breath.

Personally between jobs at the moment, enjoying when I can quieter spins around East Cork on quieter, mostly single track roads, which really slows down the traffic. Get to enjoy some good hill climbs, smile at babies in prams out with their mothers, pretty girls walking their dogs, nice views around the coast of East Cork and so on.

Far from the commuting hell that is London traffic.

Bliss.

That's it. That's it. I'm decided. Thank for the push in the right direction, Chuck.

The 15 year old rusty Diamond Back in my shed is getting some serious TLC over the next few months. Then I'm going to chuck (hehe) it in the back of the car when we go to Cork in the Spring.

I was never really into cycling when I lived in Cork but I miseed not having a bike when we go to visit family.

Ah yes; next summer - Kinsale here I come. Some nice hills around Mallow! Yes!

(sorry for derailing thread..... carry on).

gtvlusso

I would not film at all - think it is silly and irrelevent, just gets peoples backs up and makes cyclists look like smug, know it all, twats - but thats just my opinion. Other thing is that allot of cyclists are terrible road users - kids/teenagers, people without lights/helmet, people who don't shoulder check when manouvering or changing lane, ride on pavements RLJ, people with no confidence, fitness or pace on a bike etc etc etc...so don' get too precious about it.

I have cycled to work, raced and competed in tri events for 10 years + and ridden and raced motorbikes for at least 16 years - so, I suspect I have a valid opinion. I have had more incidents with other cyclists than any other vehicle (2 in the last 2 days!) - simply down to people not looking where they are going or what is around them (hopping off pavements onto the road)

But then, I have relativley quiet roads to commute on and have never really had many incidents with other vehicles, usual tea, fag, coffee being thrown at me or a bit of abuse/someone not looking and cutting me up....but i can handle that...... Aside a punch up with a van driver (I won as he was fat, slow and tried to run me over!)

Again, it is down to the filmers opinion of someone acting like a spanner - but that person may have no concept of your road requirements as a cyclist as they have never cycled....and you may be very wrong about the incident or the drivers thoughts/why they reacted and look like a tool yourself. How would you feel about being filmed by all other road users and them commenting on why you piss them off?! And don't say "you would learn from it" like Bentmikey - because that is simply a lie!!! It would get you back up.

chuckcork

mcmullej wrote:

That's it. That's it. I'm decided. Thank for the push in the right direction, Chuck.

The 15 year old rusty Diamond Back in my shed is getting some serious TLC over the next few months. Then I'm going to chuck (hehe) it in the back of the car when we go to Cork in the Spring.

I was never really into cycling when I lived in Cork but I miseed not having a bike when we go to visit family.

Ah yes; next summer - Kinsale here I come. Some nice hills around Mallow! Yes!

(sorry for derailing thread..... carry on).

No-one owns a thread (except maybe for the love story thread in Cake Stop)

I'll be moving back to the nightmare, sorry, London, in a month or so, but I'm leaving one of my bikes behind to ride when I'm back at Xmas etc. It will stay in our house here for the next year just begging to be ridden (can't rent the house out due to taxation complications) and after that I hope I can leave it with the in-laws.

If nothing else they might agree as it would get me out of their house for a few hours a day. They could drop heavy hints for me to go out and play in the traffic...

downfader

gtvlusso wrote:

I would not film at all - think it is silly and irrelevent, just gets peoples backs up and makes cyclists look like smug, know it all, twats - but thats just my opinion. Other thing is that allot of cyclists are terrible road users - kids/teenagers, people without lights/helmet, people who don't shoulder check when manouvering or changing lane, ride on pavements RLJ, people with no confidence, fitness or pace on a bike etc etc etc...so don' get too precious about it.

I have cycled to work, raced and competed in tri events for 10 years + and ridden and raced motorbikes for at least 16 years - so, I suspect I have a valid opinion. I have had more incidents with other cyclists than any other vehicle (2 in the last 2 days!) - simply down to people not looking where they are going or what is around them (hopping off pavements onto the road)

But then, I have relativley quiet roads to commute on and have never really had many incidents with other vehicles, usual tea, fag, coffee being thrown at me or a bit of abuse/someone not looking and cutting me up....but i can handle that...... Aside a punch up with a van driver (I won as he was fat, slow and tried to run me over!)

Again, it is down to the filmers opinion of someone acting like a spanner - but that person may have no concept of your road requirements as a cyclist as they have never cycled....and you may be very wrong about the incident or the drivers thoughts/why they reacted and look like a tool yourself. How would you feel about being filmed by all other road users and them commenting on why you wee-wee them off?! And don't say "you would learn from it" like Bentmikey - because that is simply a lie!!! It would get you back up.

I have no problem with people filming me cycling. I've even written in to the local paper when they complain about cyclists and said they should get their cameras out and collate evidence. They are even ok with putting it on youtube as some of us have done.

If I do something illegal I deserve to be punished for it if caught. Even if thats just a telling off as seems to happen here.

All of the offences you mention could apply to any other vehicle, and I have seen as much with cars, busses and motorbikes as I have with cyclists. None of us are saints and I accept that.

I have cycled since a kid. I took up commuting and riding for fun when 17 and kept it up until 24, had about 2-3 years off and then was back into it again. I'm now 31. I dont think the length of time really plays a factor in all of this - the point is something is failing in society in some cities.

My camera is first and foremost my voice should mine be unable to speak.

andy_wrx

There is a school of thought that thinks that having a camera running will change behaviour - and I don't mean the behaviour of other road users, I mean the cyclist carrying it.

With it, someone prone that way in the first place could become even more bloodyminded, will seek confrontations.

Someone who is already damn sure that they're in the right and that other people are in the wrong now has 'evidence' and can run off with it to police (parents, teacher...)

downfader

andy_wrx wrote:

There is a school of thought that thinks that having a camera running will change behaviour - and I don't mean the behaviour of other road users, I mean the cyclist carrying it.

With it, someone prone that way in the first place could become even more bloodyminded, will seek confrontations.

Someone who is already damn sure that they're in the right and that other people are in the wrong now has 'evidence' and can run off with it to police (parents, teacher...)

Have seen a few youtubers who do appear to behave exactly as you say. One guy from the states actually chases after driving instructors and berates them (not hard to find his vids if they're still there). Another is a motorcyclist who suffers from roadrage (he has "mojo" in his username iirc)

Personally I'm not a confrontational kind of bloke, though its easier to come across like that online. My opinion is that if you carry a camera then behave

toshmund

Agree with Gtvlusso. Becoming to be a band of people on here who seem to be styling themselves to the verge of political activism. Cycling - leisure activity/mode of transport, not a means of passing over your superiority over someone else. Characters making themselves the self appointed "Guardian Angel's" and posting comments about "I passed someone without any lights"/"Oooh this driver cut me up!" Society is not that much worse than it has been before. Media is just better at collecting every little nugget. Along with all the budding Rupert Murdoch's on You.tube...Modern life is stressful, some people are muppets - they don't all do it on purpose.

Just know I will get runover on the way to work tonight now!

P.S. Filming someone without their permission, and then showing it on a public service must contravene "the privacy laws" in some respect.

downfader

Toshmund wrote:

P.S. Filming someone without their permission, and then showing it on a public service must contravene "the privacy laws" in some respect.

Er no, lets not encourage that little myth again in the UK. Here in the uk there is no right to privacy in a public place. The only places where it is illegal to take pictures and video are military and government sites and buildings.

Private premises may impose restrictions, but having known a few journalists even then theres a legal minefield of going to court to actually put a stop to photographic use. The worst they can do is ask you to leave, if they feel kids or vulnerable people are involved they can call the police, but otherwise only the courts can put a stop to it.

grayo59

Downfader - while you're on about his spelling tell him that with regard to his second comment it's "loser not looser".

downfader

grayo59 wrote:

Downfader - while you're on about his spelling tell him that with regard to his second comment it's "loser not looser".

LOL! Perhaps he thought I was a' jiving. Hangin loose.

Havent a clue what I just said

don_don

There is a school of thought that thinks that having a camera running will change behaviour - and I don't mean the behaviour of other road users, I mean the cyclist carrying it.

I'm pretty well decided on buying an actioncam, for many of the reasons above. Some time ago I was cut-up (I believe deliberately) by a driver in Cheltenham at a set of lights. I nearly didn't stop in time and ended up leaning against his driver's door. I got the expected "What the f*ck are you doing?" so replied "You nearly had me off there you tw*t", smacked his windscreen and cycled on.

I didn't realise he had jumped out of his car after me until I felt a hand at the back of my neck further on down the road. He must have just missed getting hold of me, the lights had turned green and he ran back to his car, with me shouting and screaming insults in a condition of some upset and anxiety.

He threw a coin at me further on down the road but missed. I was too shocked to think to take his reg. number and put it down to experience.

Now, if I'd had a camera, I'd have got his number plate, face and actions on 'film'. I think I would also have moderated my language, knowing that it might end up in court.

For me that's the only reason to have one - evidence and 'self-policing' as it were.

always_tyred

Its only a matter of time before new cars get them installed and insurance companies ask if you've got one.

We are filmed when we go shopping and when we drive in many places anyway, so its all rapidly becoming a non-issue.

For me, the ideal camera would have an overflow buffer of about 5 minutes, and be about the size of a knog frog. It takes me too long to prepare for battle as it is, without having yet another gadget to farht around with.

But for the avoidance of dount, downfader, there's nothing in the least bit odd about venting your spleen by posting vids on youtube. Its probably better than doing it at the time (which I never do, obviously) or letting loose a stream of consiousness on an internet forum (which I also never do).

We await with interest footage of your recent forcible enounter with a car, which completely backs up your reasoning.

gtvlusso

All good arguments - it is personal preference, but I would prefer not to carry a camera (I carry enoough already!). And I really don't think it helps cyclist in general, it just makes us look like we are out to get people and that we are superior in some way and have a right to tell people how to drive....and that simply enfuriates an element of society....Hope you understand my point of view. Really don't care about what the law says about it or how it would help in an accident/rage incident.....the incident may even occur because you are carrying a camera!!
As a motorcyclist (when I was a bit youger and reckless!) I used to wheely through speed cameras at ridiculous speeds - because they cannot see your number plate! And Deliberately speed up for forward facing cameras and speed detector vans - no front number plate on a bike!! The whole speeding thing and camera craze enfuriated me as a rider and a motorist who did high mileages....I felt violated, like I could not just drive somewhere without another worry or something else to have to consider on our already overburdenend, conjested and sometimes confusingly laid out roads - I don't drive nowadays and rarely use the motorbike because I feel like any mistake or "bit of fun" will be pounced upon by a camera (police of personal) or someone who disagrees with what I have done or the way I did something on the road (like knee down on a round-a-bout - perfectly good way of fast cornering on a motorbike, yet some people perceive it to be dangerous - they don't ride motorbikes or understand the dynamic of getting a 1000cc sports bike round a corner and the fact you have less grip and braking force than a car!!).....Can't we just let go a bit and just get on with the job in hand......pedalling like crazy until we sweat like 3rd world slave children??!

always_tyred

gtvlusso wrote:

All good arguments - it is personal preference, but I would prefer not to carry a camera (I carry enoough already!). And I really don't think it helps cyclist in general, it just makes us look like we are out to get people and that we are superior in some way and have a right to tell people how to drive....and that simply enfuriates an element of society....Hope you understand my point of view. Really don't care about what the law says about it or how it would help in an accident/rage incident.....the incident may even occur because you are carrying a camera!!
As a motorcyclist (when I was a bit youger and reckless!) I used to wheely through speed cameras at ridiculous speeds - because they cannot see your number plate! And Deliberately speed up for forward facing cameras and speed detector vans - no front number plate on a bike!! The whole speeding thing and camera craze enfuriated me as a rider and a motorist who did high mileages....I felt violated, like I could not just drive somewhere without another worry or something else to have to consider on our already overburdenend, conjested and sometimes confusingly laid out roads - I don't drive nowadays and rarely use the motorbike because I feel like any mistake or "bit of fun" will be pounced upon by a camera (police of personal) or someone who disagrees with what I have done or the way I did something on the road (like knee down on a round-a-bout - perfectly good way of fast cornering on a motorbike, yet some people perceive it to be dangerous - they don't ride motorbikes or understand the dynamic of getting a 1000cc sports bike round a corner and the fact you have less grip and braking force than a car!!).....Can't we just let go a bit and just get on with the job in hand......pedalling like crazy until we sweat like 3rd world slave children??!

I totally understand, and just now there is a risk of getting people's back up for sure. I'm just saying, it will be the norm before you can say "it was his fault, your honour".

gtvlusso

very True!

gtvlusso

very True!