IOC Re-testing Beijing Samples

pat1cp

Just been announced, re-testing for CERA specifically.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jIO_ ... wD93M8P1G0

Kléber

This will get very interesting. A shame they can't check for HGH, especially in the six month build up in out of competition tests, as this would have altered a lot of swimming medals, but it's a promising start. Now we'll wait and see...

bipedal

blood samples for cyclists or everyone? I hope everyone...

iainf72

I do hope it's all.

Let's see how many of those "records" are still standing at the end of it.

stagehopper

Everyone from that statement - wonder what the medal table will look like in a couple of months?

Kléber

It's more than cycling, that is for sure.

I doubt they will do all samples but will do it on an intelligence basis, ie endurance sports and test the top-5 but that's just a guess.

claudb

I'm encouraged indeed. Maybe there is a desire to find ALL the cheats.

timoid.

Will they be testing blood or urine?

Remember Schumacher and Piepoli passed the urine tests.

iainf72

I'd suspect blood.

5000 samples in total.

pat1cp

Of the 5000 samples taken I think about 500 were blood samples. More here, all sports to be covered :-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympics/7658852.stm

DavMartinR

I wonder if there will be a call for a ban on other sports??? Not just dirty dirty cycling!!!!

Kléber

They use both urine and blood to catch Schumacher, urine apparently gives some indication, it's the first screening process, and then they start blood tests to nail them.

leguape

I've got real problem with this retroactive testing. Exactly where does it stop and who does it benefit? You're the guy who has been cheated out of a gold medal earning opportunities, are you going to put your career on hold to go through the hell of court proceedings just because the IOC/UCI/ASO and the testing authorities were too damned pre-occupied with milking their cash cow to get this stuff in order before the games?

Y'know what? It's two months after the games, when all the homecomings are done and every sponsorship deal has made guys able to stop worrying about the overdraft and get on with enjoying their moment of glory. The IOC/WADA/ASO/UCI/whoever tells me actually I got beaten by a guy who cheated is about as worthwhile as being told "sorry I didn't see you" after you've become a hood ornament.

It's absolutely pathetic and by cheering "another cheat caught" it diverts from the fact that those sporting bodies are doing the sqaure of naff all to deliver on their end of the deal.

slojo

By the time the Olympics began, Ricco's positive result had already scotched the idea that CERA was undetectable.
Surely most people using it would have stopped long before arriving in Beijing?

pat1cp

leguape wrote:

I've got real problem with this retroactive testing. Exactly where does it stop and who does it benefit? You're the guy who has been cheated out of a gold medal earning opportunities, are you going to put your career on hold to go through the hell of court proceedings just because the IOC/UCI/ASO and the testing authorities were too damned pre-occupied with milking their cash cow to get this stuff in order before the games?

Y'know what? It's two months after the games, when all the homecomings are done and every sponsorship deal has made guys able to stop worrying about the overdraft and get on with enjoying their moment of glory. The IOC/WADA/ASO/UCI/whoever tells me actually I got beaten by a guy who cheated is about as worthwhile as being told "sorry I didn't see you" after you've become a hood ornament.

It's absolutely pathetic and by cheering "another cheat caught" it diverts from the fact that those sporting bodies are doing the sqaure of naff all to deliver on their end of the deal.

But aren't they only re-testing because of the recent development of the CERA test ? I'm sure the IOC would have tested for it at the time had the test been available.

Cumulonimbus

slojo wrote:

By the time the Olympics began, Ricco's positive result had already scotched the idea that CERA was undetectable.
Surely most people using it would have stopped long before arriving in Beijing?

You'd have thought so. Then again Piepoli didnt test positive in the tour and Ricco only did once so maybe some might have thought they could get round things. When was the Ricco announcement? About the 20th July? Thats only a few weeks before hand so people using stuff on that day may still have been detectable in tests held just before the games.

stagehopper

Ricco's positive came through on July 17th which is the first time anyone was aware a test for CERA existed. Olympics ran August 6th to 24th - CERA is meant to last at least a month in the blood. There's a significant overlap there which could see some of those taking it prior to the Ricco announcement getting caught. And with many athletes in training camps spread to all four corners of the globe they may not even have been aware of Ricco's test immediatety.

andy_welch

This re-testing is the real game changer for me. We all know the cheats are always going to be one step ahead of the testers. But now they have to be sure, not just that their current method is undetectable, but that a test wont be developed for it in the next few years. That's a pretty big gamble.

Cheers,

Andy

DavMartinR

Wouldn't it be great if Eric the eel became the world record holder for the 50 metre crawl??

Kléber

Sadly they can't test for growth hormone abuse, otherwise the swimming medal table would look very different.

slojo

Growth hormone promotes bone density.
Perhaps swimmers could be tested using a ducking stool.

leguape

slojo wrote:

By the time the Olympics began, Ricco's positive result had already scotched the idea that CERA was undetectable.
Surely most people using it would have stopped long before arriving in Beijing?

It's just one long puff for the IOC to say "look at what were are doing to keep sport clean". You'd need to be a mug to dope in competition because you simply don't need to in order to carry the benefits.

Perhaps if they had a clue they'd go back through the 6 months of out-of-competition testing that includes the period where they launched various russians, pretty much anyone who was greek, hungarian, a weightlifter or both and countless others who disappeared off radar. It's a Vic Conte says, you go away and abuse where you know they won't come knocking for OOC testing like the west indies or the african rift valley.

Kléber

leguape wrote:

It's a Vic Conte says, you go away and abuse where you know they won't come knocking for OOC testing like the west indies or the african rift valley.

Or simply cross London to the wrong athletics stadium in case the authorities knock on your door.

musto_skiff

I wonder if any GBR athletes will get nailed? :?

The cloud of this reaches far & wide ...

stagehopper

Kléber wrote:

leguape wrote:

It's a Vic Conte says, you go away and abuse where you know they won't come knocking for OOC testing like the west indies or the african rift valley.

Or simply cross London to the wrong athletics stadium in case the authorities knock on your door.

Didn't prove very successful that ...

LangerDan

I wouldn't expect many positives from the Beijing tests due to awareness of the CERA tests from mid-July, which is a "worst case scenario" for cycling. Timewise, Joe Public will see a glut of cycling CERA positives, but little, if any, from the other sports and our protestations about how cycling tests more than anyone else will appear hollow. It also allows a distance to be maintained between the nice, clean Olympics and that horrid drug-haven that is the TdF.

If I was suspicious sort of guy, I'd imagine that both ASO and the UCI have been royally stitched-up by the big boys of the IOC.

skavanagh.bikeradar

It depends on the level of arrogance and insulation from getting caught that other sports have with regard to testing. I'd like to think that if done properly it will catch a few out. The danger of course is that they are all cyclists.............but as you say after July you'd think not. Right?

It'd be great if they found out a load of other athletes though, I'd love it, absolutely love it.

stagehopper

Well we know Puerto extended well beyond cycling - didn't cyclists only account for 25% of the "clients"?

andy_wrx

LangerDan wrote:

I wouldn't expect many positives from the Beijing tests due to awareness of the CERA tests from mid-July, which is a "worst case scenario" for cycling. Timewise, Joe Public will see a glut of cycling CERA positives, but little, if any, from the other sports and our protestations about how cycling tests more than anyone else will appear hollow. It also allows a distance to be maintained between the nice, clean Olympics and that horrid drug-haven that is the TdF.

If I was suspicious sort of guy, I'd imagine that both ASO and the UCI have been royally stitched-up by the big boys of the IOC.

I did propose a conspiracy theory at the time of the Tour when the original tests were catching Ricco, etc, saying how convenient the timing was.

The Tour ran under ASO and French Cycling, not UCI and dope testing was done by AFLD
AFLD is the French part of WADA isn't it ?
And WADA is an Olympic organisation, belongs to the IOC, not to UCI

Ricco had a (very !) good Giro and yet no test was available then so he got away with it.
The new test comes out at the Tour, catches him

But it's a month before the Olympics.
It thus sends a warning message to any dopers in other sports that there's now a test.
It's too short notice for them to stop doping, but they know they're going to get caught if they turn up in Beijing.

So they pull out with 'ligament injury' or whatever.
They don't go to Beijing, there are no positive tests, look how wonderful and clean the Olympics are !

Kléber

I'd like to see some teams from the UEFA Euro cup tested. Some players were running around the field like machines, some Spanish and Russians in particular. I'm not alleging things, just want to be sure they did it fairly.

skavanagh.bikeradar

Doping controls in football??!! Are you mad! Too much money and vested interest to bother with that sort of thing. It's the cyclists that are dirty dontchaknow.