Save the London Bendy Bus (Country Types Look Away now)

spen666

Now travel group wants to save the bendy bus
Dick Murray, Transport Editor
06.10.08 A campaign to save the bendy bus was launched today.

London TravelWatch said there are many advantages in keeping them and they have proved popular on busy routes.

It puts the capital's watchdog in direct conflict with Mayor Boris Johnson who made a manifesto pledge to scrap the bendy bus.

Janet Cooke, chief executive of London TravelWatch, said scrapping the buses on some of the capital's busiest routes and replacing them with conventional vehicles could cost an extra £13 million a year.

Ms Cooke wants Transport for London to conduct extra research among passengers on the routes before taking them off the streets.

Bendy buses have had a troubled history since being introduced by Ken Livingstone. Some earlier models caught fire and they have been condemned as "intimidating" and "inappropriate" for London.

They have also been beset with fare-dodging passengers using the rear section, away from the driver, to get on an off.

Ms Cooke said: "We believe the use of articulated buses on routes with a high volume of passengers has overwhelming advantages."

She said they were more accessible, could manoeuvre in tight spaces and passengers could get on and off quicker.

"They are particularly suitable for use on routes which serve mainline railway termini, where numerous passengers arrive at stops in short spaces of time. We see no reason to scrap these buses."

The watchdog said the bendy buses performed well and are popular on a number of routes. It highlighted route 521 (between Waterloo and London Bridge via Holborn;) 507 (Waterloo and Victoria via Westminster) and 38 ( Victoria and Clapton Pond via the West End and Islington).

Ms Cooke said; "The cost of using conventional buses on these routes may by significantly higher than using bendy buses.

"We have estimated, and TfL has not disputed the figure, that additional costs on these three routes alone could be in the region of £12-13 million per annum."

TravelWatch also raised concerns about the potential impact of the extra buses needed to replace the bendy models on congested streets and at stops.

"The 38, for example, serves an area of Islington and Hackney not served by the Tube and when double deckers were used previously passengers often couldn't board the first bus, a situation we believe rarely occurs now," continued Ms Cooke.

"Feedback we have received suggests that many people favour the retention of bendy buses on these routes.

"We would like TfL to undertake - and publish - some research into the preferences of people who actually use these routes before any changes take place."

The Mayor, in his manifesto, said bendy buses "were never suited to London's roads and the facts show they have twice as many accidents as normal buses".

He added: "In addition, open boarding means they have become known as 'free buses'. They lose almost three times as much fare revenue as other buses."

Evening Standard

lost_in_thought

Personally, I'm not keen on bendy buses, well actually, I'm not keen on their drivers who seem to forget that they are driving two buses when overtaking a cyclist.

Big Red S

I do think the "Warning this bus is 14 metres long" stickers on the back of the bendy buses should be stuck somewhere the driver can see them.

Wrath Rob

Commented.

I particularly liked the suggestion to put more conductors on the bus to stop fare dodgers. Erm, wasn't one of the points of these buses to reduce staff costs by eliminating conductors?

They were a stupid solution to the public transport problem. And yes, I am feeling grumpy today

lost_in_thought

Big Red S wrote:

I do think the "Warning this bus is 14 metres long" stickers on the back of the bendy buses should be stuck somewhere the driver can see them.

toontra

London TravelWatch are a farcical organisation, at least from my dealings with them, sitting on their arses, pontificating, usually getting it wrong and basically just doing enough to justify their funding. This latest nonsense doesn't surprise me one bit.

The Mayor is the one elected to deal with issues like transport, and (like him or not) one of his most popular major election issues was to scrap the bendy bus. Let him get on with it.

biondino

"We would like TfL to undertake - and publish - some research into the preferences of people who actually use these routes before any changes take place."

And WE would like London TravelWatch to remember that it's not just bus drivers and bus commuters who are affected by the buses they travel on! So if you don't mind we'd like our views - drivers, cyclists, pedestrians alike, to be heard, thanks.

always_tyred

They have these things in north america where the roads are wide and straight and once the driver has mastered a 90 degree turn between two straight roads, they have the whole thing sussed.

They were a menace to cycling there, in their most benign environment, and I was astonished that they were brought over here. Stupid stupid stupid.

cjcp

Big Red S wrote:

I do think the "Warning this bus is 14 metres long" stickers on the back of the bendy buses should be stuck somewhere the driver can see them.

I thought it was 18m?

Either way, they're a menace. A vehicle which is that long has no place in city laid out like London. Which half-wit came up with the idea?

Clever Pun

Always Tyred wrote:

They have these things in north america where the roads are wide and straight and once the driver has mastered a 90 degree turn between two straight roads, they have the whole thing sussed.

They were a menace to cycling there, in their most benign environment, and I was astonished that they were brought over here. Stupid stupid stupid.

I saw one at the weekend in either Bath or Bristol... it's not just london

they're also used all over europe

If the divers were properly trained they shouldn't be a problem

always_tyred

It is possible for them to be operated safely, however they are more difficult to operate safely than a shorter vehicle. Shorter vehicles are already demonstrably difficult to operate safely, so why raise the bar? Our bridges are predominantly compatible with double deckers now, so why impose a solution that was introduced in places where double deckers wheren't an option?

You know, the other reason for avoiding the introduction of these things is that they take up twice the space in traffic and add to congesion.

Its just bonkers. They are solving a problem that has already been solved.

Big Red S

Always Tyred wrote:

You know, the other reason for avoiding the introduction of these things is that they take up twice the space in traffic and add to congesion.

But because they have more entry and exit points they need to stop for shorter periods of time, so have less of an effect on the speed of the traffic.

spen666

cjcp wrote:

Big Red S wrote:

I do think the "Warning this bus is 14 metres long" stickers on the back of the bendy buses should be stuck somewhere the driver can see them.

I thought it was 18m?

...

That's the problem, the drivers forget the last 4 meters of the bus

Greg T

Going round Parliament Sq (four lanes of fighting traffic, one way, Ben Hur death race type affair, near Parliament for you Capital Dodgers) with a bendy bus in the next lane is a lesson in defensive riding and "Action man - Eagel Eyes". Why choose a lane when you can bridge over three or four - I hate bendy buses, actually I'm not keen on buses in general - unless it's proper blowing and I can hide behind one (yes Dad - drafting is very dangerous - don't do it Kids)

Mr_Cellophane

"Feedback we have received suggests that many people favour the retention of bendy buses on these routes.

That will be feedback from the passengers who don't bother to pay.

Ms Cooke said; "The cost of using conventional buses on these routes may be significantly higher than using bendy buses.

Good non-committal word "may"

Mr_Cellophane

cjcp wrote:

Big Red S wrote:

I do think the "Warning this bus is 14 metres long" stickers on the back of the bendy buses should be stuck somewhere the driver can see them.

I thought it was 18m?

Yep 18m, they also go in a 4 axle 20m version.

Littigator

I like the way that really all she highlights is the cost saving, because let's be honest cost is far more important than other road users safety...isn't it?

prj45

toontra wrote:

The Mayor is the one elected to deal with issues like transport, and (like him or not) one of his most popular major election issues was to scrap the bendy bus. Let him get on with it.

If they scrap bendy buses that's going to mean many more vehicles on the road, certainly at peak times.

I'd rather have one bendy than two double deckers or three single deckers needed to replace it to keep capacity the same.

prj45

Always Tyred wrote:

You know, the other reason for avoiding the introduction of these things is that they take up twice the space in traffic and add to congesion.

No they decrease congestion, it's one bendy or three single deckers on one of the routes apparently to retain the capacity, three single deckers take up a LOT more road space than one bendy.

linsen

We used to have bendy buses in Southampton but they have phased them out again now. Be interesting to know why. As I never used them I never found out. Buses are a complete waste of time in So'ton compared to a bike

itboffin

If they get rid of all the bendy buses where will all the tramps and wino's go when they need to pee?

The Chingford Skinhead

Big Red S wrote:

I do think the "Warning this bus is 14 metres long" stickers on the back of the bendy buses should be stuck somewhere the driver can see them.

I don't know if there is a spot prize for post of the week but I'd like to nominate the above

redvee

Clever Pun wrote:

I saw one at the weekend in either Bath or Bristol...

That'll be Bath, bright Orange and surprisingly called Orange buses. I think they run from the bus station, along the A4 to the Globe roundabout/Corston to the university for the students.

grayo59

Clever Pun wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

...

If the divers were properly trained they shouldn't be a problem

Yup! They could go along the riverbed out of cyclists' way!

STEFANOS4784

Clever Pun wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

They have these things in north america where the roads are wide and straight and once the driver has mastered a 90 degree turn between two straight roads, they have the whole thing sussed.

They were a menace to cycling there, in their most benign environment, and I was astonished that they were brought over here. Stupid stupid stupid.

I saw one at the weekend in either Bath or Bristol... it's not just london

they're also used all over europe

If the divers were properly trained they shouldn't be a problem

Yep, they're called the bright orange, or big orange, or some-thing in Bath, they're used to take students from the centre to the uni, never had any run-ins with them luckily as they do look quite sketchy if on a bike.