Filtering - left or right

girv73

There's a goodly chunk of my commute where I'm passing one and two lane queues of stop-start traffic controlled by lights. I think you're supposed to filter down the right hand side (aren't you?), but I feel this leaves me in a vulnerable position on the right of the lane when the traffic starts up again so I normally head down the left. It's straight roads with no turn-offs or crossings, I only filter when the traffic is stationary and don't RLJ or pavement hop, so I think it's safe enough.

Is left wrong and right right? Your thoughts?

Greg T

I filter both sides depending on taffic conditions / space. On the same piece of road I'll go different ways on different days.

I have my spidey senses turned up to 11, my head is making like a dalek (looking around a lot) and I'm super aware of car doors opening, turn - offs, U-turners, if the traffic is going to start to move, relative speeds, kerb clearance, road conditions etc etc etc.

I think you've got to judge situations as they arise.

lost_in_thought

Agree with Greg here, not sure what the official line is but I tend to vary my approach according to traffic conditions.

However, given the choice I tend to stick to the left.

Is this a good or bad thing? I don't know...

always_tyred

Very situation dependent in my opinion. If someone says "you should always overtake on the right" I'd say that in theory yes, in practice its too simplistic. If there is obviously space on the inside, your presence on the outside might be unexpected. Indeed, if there's obvious space on the inside, quite often this means that there is something about the road layout that makes it inapprioriate to be on the outside (i.e. all the cars are trying to egde over to the outside.).

Left - How much space is there to the left, how many side roads are there to the left, is there anything to encourage cars to the left (for example to get inside a car turning right into a side road - and no, the fact that there is no room is irrelevant) are there any schools, shops or any other reason to suddenly pull up, is there a line of parked cars and will you be in the door zone.... etc, etc, etc.

Right - how wide is the road- can you tuck in if there is oncoming traffic, or would you have to relay on space between cars? How far are you from the lights? How is the traffic flow (is it s truly stationary line of traffic, or stop/start?) Any right turns? Any opportunities for people to jump out of traffic approaching right hand turns, any opportunity for people to jump out of traffic to turn 1 lane into 2 at the lights? Do motorbikes buzz past the outside as well?

If there are 2 lanes of stop start and I am going straight on, I confess that I'd be very cautious about being on the outside of both. That's a long way to blend back in.

Is the google maps resolution good enough to show us where you mean?

Gussio

Don't be afraid to wait in the traffic if filtering on both sides is dicey. Better to arrive "late" than never, etc...

always_tyred

Gussio wrote:

Don't be afraid to wait in the traffic if filtering on both sides is dicey. Better to arrive "late" than never, etc...

Well said. In reality, a temporary blockage will probably only last one cycle of the lights.

beseku

Gussio wrote:

Don't be afraid to wait in the traffic if filtering on both sides is dicey. Better to arrive "late" than never, etc...

I always, always do this - quite often on my commute, (specifically the horrid traffic to get on to Blackfriars Bridge) I'll sit behind a bus or car in the middle of the lane. It loses me a few minutes, but its much more obvious to every road user that I'm on the road and where I am going.

Make sure you keep enough distance between you and the traffic in front - I've almost been reversed on twice.

girv73

This is the route:
http://sportstracker.nokia.com/nts/work ... ?id=454981

And on Google Maps:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8& ... 106136026d

I thought there was more of an onus to filter on the right like motorcycles do, but I guess we have to do whatever we feel is safe.

There is usually plenty of room down the left and few left turns off that road that anyone can take. I won't try to squeeze down if there's not enough room to just ride freely anyway.

dondare

I filter on the left and overtake on the right. I probably filter at least 90% of tyhe time, but I do know what I'm doing and am aware of all the risks, unlike many of the other cyclists I see. Filtering is only safe if you are prepared for anything to happen and know what to do when it does.

Eat My Dust

9 out of 10 times if there's not enough room on the right I will just sit in the traffic.

I was goiing to start a thread about my commute this morning, but this thread will do for my story.....

..... I was coming down Harrow road this morning, approaching a stationary line of traffic, lots of room on both the right and left hand side. The last vehicle was a bus. As I came up behind, it slowing down from 20ish MPH, I started to position myself to filter down the right, when I see the bus doors open and 2 little kids step off the bus. This was not at a bus stop and the bus must have been a good 5 feet from the kerb. I have no doubt if I had chosen to undertake the line of traffic I would have hit the 2 kids. It would not have been a pretty sight!

I have no doubt if I had made the undertake choice and hit the children they would have been seriously injured. I also have no doubt that it would have been reported as a reckless cyclist incident.

Coriander

While I tend to go down the left hand side (obviously only after assessing the risks of doing so), when I was knocked off last year it was because I was riding at usual speed down the left hand side of a stationary or very slow moving line of traffic - a car turned left to get out of the queue. I have been told by the police and by my lawyer that I shouldn't have been doing that and so will be considered partially contributory to the incident.

But it is a tricky one, because I often feel very exposed on the right hand side, particularly if the speed of the lane of traffic picks up significantly.

always_tyred

Yoiks.

Most of the early part of the ride seems to be single lane, with cross hatchings in the centre of the road, filled with misc filter lanes. With the caveat that you clearly have to be cautious about the drivers using the filter lanes, I'd be going down the outside (I think).

Then you get to the part that goes 2 then 3 lanes. There, I would NOT be going around the outside. I have a couple of stretches like this on my commute and on previous commutes. this is definitely in the realms of taking the primary in the lane you need and picking your way through very carefully a car at a time.

Alternatively, set off half an hour earlier!! (This is what I have every intention of doing every morning but it does not seem to happen).

I take it there's no bike routes in closer to the river then?

Eat My Dust

Coriander wrote:

But it is a tricky one, because I often feel very exposed on the right hand side, particularly if the speed of the lane of traffic picks up significantly.

It's all about timing and confidence. There's not many drivers that won't let you pull back into the flow of traffic. I don't really give them a choice, I just move back in. If I think that they might not let me in, I'll signal as well. Then it's their choice if they want to run into the back of me. To date nobody has taken this course of action!

lol, I'll probably get ripped apart for this post!

lost_in_thought

Coriander wrote:

While I tend to go down the left hand side (obviously only after assessing the risks of doing so), when I was knocked off last year it was because I was riding at usual speed down the left hand side of a stationary or very slow moving line of traffic - a car turned left to get out of the queue. I have been told by the police and by my lawyer that I shouldn't have been doing that and so will be considered partially contributory to the incident.

But it is a tricky one, because I often feel very exposed on the right hand side, particularly if the speed of the lane of traffic picks up significantly.

Hey Cori, I'm surprised by the police/lawyer's line of thought there - I always thought it was perfectly OK and legal to filter down the inside of traffic? :shock:

Greg T

lost_in_thought wrote:

Hey Cori, I'm surprised by the police/lawyer's line of thought there - I always thought it was perfectly OK and legal to filter down the inside of traffic? :shock:

The fact that the car was turning left into a side road is key, a bike filtering on the left that hits a car turning left effectively hits it from behind. Hitting from behind is "always" the fault of the hitter......

I await the correct answer rather than my third hand Policeman told me once version.

Rapidly edited to add before the bazookas of indignation get going..... yes if you are overtaken and then left hooked this is different......

Coriander

lost_in_thought wrote:

Coriander wrote:

While I tend to go down the left hand side (obviously only after assessing the risks of doing so), when I was knocked off last year it was because I was riding at usual speed down the left hand side of a stationary or very slow moving line of traffic - a car turned left to get out of the queue. I have been told by the police and by my lawyer that I shouldn't have been doing that and so will be considered partially contributory to the incident.

But it is a tricky one, because I often feel very exposed on the right hand side, particularly if the speed of the lane of traffic picks up significantly.

Hey Cori, I'm surprised by the police/lawyer's line of thought there - I always thought it was perfectly OK and legal to filter down the inside of traffic? :shock:

Apparently it was undertaking! I was a bit surprised, because I thought that was where we were supposed to cycle.

lost_in_thought

Greg T wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Hey Cori, I'm surprised by the police/lawyer's line of thought there - I always thought it was perfectly OK and legal to filter down the inside of traffic? :shock:

The fact that the car was turning left into a side road is key, a bike filtering on the left that hits a car turning left effectively hits it from behind. Hitting from behind is "always" the fault of the hitter......

I await the correct answer rather than my third hand Policeman told me once version.

Rapidly edited to add before the bazookas of indignation get going..... yes if you are overtaken and then left hooked this is different......

Ahhhhh so if you hit the left-turning car it's your fault, seems fair, but what if you don't see it coming and it hits you from side on?

Would you still be in trouble for being there?

Not trying to be @rsey, but can't think of a better way to phrase the question...

Mikelyons

I'm another who will filter left/right depending on local conditions.

I always unclip at least one foot so I can dab my feet on ground if necessary & prepared
for stopping.
I prefer to filter on right as I think I'm more visible to anyone looking ahead (& who may be shortly overtaking me) or anyone looking in their driver-side mirror.

This also keeps me away from potholes/drains/broken glass on LHS which can be difficult to see in advance when you're in traffic.

As others have said, it's best to be cautious & filter back into the lane rather push on to the front of the lane of traffic.

Mike

lost_in_thought

Coriander wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Coriander wrote:

While I tend to go down the left hand side (obviously only after assessing the risks of doing so), when I was knocked off last year it was because I was riding at usual speed down the left hand side of a stationary or very slow moving line of traffic - a car turned left to get out of the queue. I have been told by the police and by my lawyer that I shouldn't have been doing that and so will be considered partially contributory to the incident.

But it is a tricky one, because I often feel very exposed on the right hand side, particularly if the speed of the lane of traffic picks up significantly.

Hey Cori, I'm surprised by the police/lawyer's line of thought there - I always thought it was perfectly OK and legal to filter down the inside of traffic? :shock:

Apparently it was undertaking! I was a bit surprised, because I thought that was where we were supposed to cycle.

That seems pretty damn sketchy to me... maybe get a second opinion??

moray_gub

girv73 wrote:

There's a goodly chunk of my commute where I'm passing one and two lane queues of stop-start traffic controlled by lights. I think you're supposed to filter down the right hand side (aren't you?), but I feel this leaves me in a vulnerable position on the right of the lane when the traffic starts up again so I normally head down the left. It's straight roads with no turn-offs or crossings, I only filter when the traffic is stationary and don't RLJ or pavement hop, so I think it's safe enough.

Is left wrong and right right? Your thoughts?

Like most folks have said depends on the situation but i usually go to the left though if there are large lorries and buses i tend to just wait in the line of traffic .

cheers
MG

Greg T

lost_in_thought wrote:

but what if you don't see it coming and it hits you from side on?

Do you mean you are alongside the car at the junction and it goes left into you?

I'd say you need to be very aware of the possibility of sudden left turning at jucntions.... if you are filtering on the left - don't trust them.

I don't go through a left junction on the inside of anyone if I can at all help it. Stationary traffic with a good view of stationary traffic ahead then proceed but be alive to the possibility the just ahead there may well be a gap and right turning traffic from the opposite side of teh road may well be appearing going straight across.

This is a classic danger and one that I feel very chuffed with myself for spotting, usually as teh Golf slips across where my front wheel would have been....

lost_in_thought

Greg T wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

but what if you don't see it coming and it hits you from side on?

Do you mean you are alongside the car at the junction and it goes left into you?

That's the one, yep.

I am also very careful indeed about this, spidey senses tingling and all, but I've had a lot of near misses where cars not indicating or showing any signs of turning suddenly decide to.

So far I've been lucky/fast enough, but if I did get collected one day I thought I'd be in the right and the car driver would be in the wrong...

Am I right?

Gussio

Mikelyons wrote:

I always unclip at least one foot so I can dab my feet on ground if necessary & prepared for stopping.

This reminds me of a time when I tried to see how many consecutive commutes I could manage without unclipping. Managed seven. Became rabid about seeking out street furniture and cars to lean on at junctions (am rubbish at trackstanding). Gave it up as a bad lot when I was starting to take too many chances trying to keep the dream alive!

always_tyred

Gussio wrote:

Mikelyons wrote:

I always unclip at least one foot so I can dab my feet on ground if necessary & prepared for stopping.

This reminds me of a time when I tried to see how many consecutive commutes I could manage without unclipping. Managed seven. Became rabid about seeking out street furniture and cars to lean on at junctions (am rubbish at trackstanding). Gave it up as a bad lot when I was starting to take too many chances trying to keep the dream alive!

You could get a trike, or stabilizers.

Coriander

I'm with you, L-i-T, it's all very confusing.

After my accident I had six weeks at home while my fractures repaired, so I did some research to try and find out what the law is on where cyclists should be placed. And I couldn't find anything that went beyond advisory.

As children we are taught to ride on the inside, but what does the law say, does anyone know?

The obvious thing at junctions is to take primary, but if we've filtered up the inside or outside to reach the front then that isn't possible. And riding primary the whole route is not feasible if you go at my speed.

girv73

Always Tyred wrote:

You could get a trike, or stabilizers.

What's the FCN modifier for stabilisers?

girv73

Always Tyred wrote:

Yoiks.

Yep. Also, go back along the A2 Shore Road to where it meets the M2 motorway. I need to take the right hand lane at that junction, but its hard to get across and the left lane leads only to motorway...

Always Tyred wrote:

Most of the early part of the ride seems to be single lane, with cross hatchings in the centre of the road, filled with misc filter lanes. With the caveat that you clearly have to be cautious about the drivers using the filter lanes, I'd be going down the outside (I think).

I guess I could do that, but I need the leftmost lane when it gets to the 2 lane section at Great Georges Street, and it'd be tough to cross there as you get a lot of traffic joining into both lanes at that junction (it's essentially a direct feed from the motorway). There's usually enough room down the left, but maybe I'll give the outside a try and see how it goes. I'll probably p**s of a motorbike or two :evil:

Always Tyred wrote:

Then you get to the part that goes 2 then 3 lanes. There, I would NOT be going around the outside. I have a couple of stretches like this on my commute and on previous commutes. this is definitely in the realms of taking the primary in the lane you need and picking your way through very carefully a car at a time.

Yeah definitely, it would be scary on the outside there. It's also right past a police station so I don't want to be doing anything too mad I stay left and pick my way through carefully as you suggest. I just didn't know if this was what I was "supposed" to be doing.

Always Tyred wrote:

Alternatively, set off half an hour earlier!! (This is what I have every intention of doing every morning but it does not seem to happen).

I'm up at 6.30 as it is to get on the road at 7.30, no way can I do 6.00 and I doubt Mrs. G would be pleased.

Always Tyred wrote:

I take it there's no bike routes in closer to the river then?

There's NCN93 which goes right along the lough shore and is quite pleasant if you can avoid the dog poo, glass and dog poo. But I've to cross a busy, motorway-feeding roundabout to join it and it ends in a chemical-smelly industrial estate, complete with cargo trucks coming from the commercial docks, and requires crossing 5 lanes of just-off-the-motorway rush hour traffic (top planning marks there, Sustrans). It's a pretty direct line into the city, but I tried it once and scared the bejebus out of me.

This is my new route after moving house on Friday past. I can go back to my old route (didn't move far!) which joins at the Clifton Street lights and bypasses most of the 2/3 lane madness and stationary traffic, but it means a big hill climb at the start of the route. Small price to pay maybe.

biondino

Eat My Dust wrote:

..... I was coming down Harrow road this morning, approaching a stationary line of traffic, lots of room on both the right and left hand side. The last vehicle was a bus. As I came up behind, it slowing down from 20ish MPH, I started to position myself to filter down the right, when I see the bus doors open and 2 little kids step off the bus. This was not at a bus stop and the bus must have been a good 5 feet from the kerb. I have no doubt if I had chosen to undertake the line of traffic I would have hit the 2 kids. It would not have been a pretty sight!

I have no doubt if I had made the undertake choice and hit the children they would have been seriously injured. I also have no doubt that it would have been reported as a reckless cyclist incident.

In this case I think you'd have been at least partly to blame as it's clearly not safe (ever, unless you have a whole specific filtering lane to yourself) to filter down the left side of traffic at 20mph. With very few exceptions, I filter on the left but at a speed where I'll either be able to stop in the event of an emergency or at the very least any accident I do have will be minimised for me and whoever I hit.

If I filter on the right, then I could very easily find myself stranded between two fast-moving streams of traffic which don't expect me to be there. I'm twice as vulnerable, I don't have the kerb/pavement as an emergency out, and I've doubled the number of options drivers could take so I'm that much more uncertain about what to do. When this does happen, I cycle quickly and assertively in a dead straight line and look to filter back into primary position as soon as possible. But I don't like it at all.

biondino

If I am filtering down the left and traffic is moving, and there's a left turn ahead, I will never ride parallel to a car but always hang back (or accelerate) so that as I pass the left turn, I am effectively between cars so if they do turn I am able to stop or take evasive action. Bear in mind that if you are alongside a car that suddenly decides it wants to turn left you're going to get hit if they don't a) look in their left-side mirror and b) do so with enough time to pull out of the turn when they hit you.

Feltup

My commute in to work is down two sections of dual carriageway with a large roundabout between them. I sit hard left at first and then as the traffic slows at the back of the queue for the roundabout I move out to the centre of the first lane and check behind to see what is coming up. If there are no motorbikes then I will filter down the middle of the two lanes keeping a good watch out for gaps which might let someone swing across and fill and take me out in the process. The middle of the two lanes feels safer as cars can weave unintentionally across there lane and give you no where to go on the left. In the middle if a car comes across the one next to it tends to move away and leave some breathing space.

I will stay in the middle (with occasional checks behind to see if I am blocking any motorbikes) until just before the roundabout when I will either take the middle or the left of the first lane. Sometimes this will be 3 cars from the roundabout othertimes 10 cars depending on the flow of traffic.

Now and again the flow of traffic approaching the roundabout speeds up above my cycling speed but by keeping a watch for this you have enough time to pick the car you are going to tuck in behind and filter left. The car behind can then repass you without you hindering them.

If I get a bit of a run into the roundabout I can usually keep pace with most left lane vehicles and enter the next section of bypass at 30+ MPH. Speed here is definitely my friend as it gives the cars a bit more time to sort themselves out and get around me.

In town I will take the side that looks best and switch regularly between the two if necessary and safe.

I chose to sit behind an Aston Martin Vantage the other day.

Eat My Dust

biondino wrote:

In this case I think you'd have been at least partly to blame as it's clearly not safe (ever, unless you have a whole specific filtering lane to yourself) to filter down the left side of traffic at 20mph. With very few exceptions, I filter on the left but at a speed where I'll either be able to stop in the event of an emergency or at the very least any accident I do have will be minimised for me and whoever I hit.

I agree that undertaking at 20 mph wouldn't be very clever. However 20 mph on the right hand side is a fairly safe speed. The point about the bus was 2 fold. Firstly even at 10 mph, you wouldn't actually see the people exiting the bus until the very last minute, so you'd probably still hit them. The 2nd part is (someone can correct me if I'm wrong) but I'm pretty sure it's illegal for bus drivers to let passengers exit anywhere apart from a bus stop.