Schleck investigated as Fuentes customer

magster200

micron wrote:

magster did you word that petition or just find it? Because it's totally unworkable. Still, I suppose it's part of this brave new world where we must all 'move on' because it suits certain riders to have the slate wiped clean :roll: :roll:

I actually wrote it. It's not supposed to be any kind of legally binding doc or anything. Just a show to the powers that be that some fans are tired of hearing about/digging up OP. Don't really care if it suits certain riders or not. Just sick of digging up the past. Doping regs are in place. If someone breaks the rules today then ban them forever. Teams are beginning to really buy into the ride clean/My Victory campaign. Tired Tired Tired of past history being reopened-rehashed-revisited. Yesterday is history.

http://www.usantidoping.org/MyVictory/

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/proc ... penalized/

slimreaper

Magster
Why 1 year? Why not 2 or 3?
Where do you stand on testing old samples of maybe 9 months old when a new test becomes available, if there are "suspicions" a rider is dodgy?
Andy

magster200

LangerDan wrote:

Interesting to see that the petition is linked to the modestly titled http://andyschleckbestbikeraceroftheuni ... gspot.com/ Why on earth would Schleck supporters want to put a time limit on investigations? :roll:

Cyclists should be subject to the same statute of limitations for sporting fraud as applies to others. No more, no less.

Interesting that you noticed that I deliberately placed the link to the blog on the petition. I don't want to be viewed under false pretenses. Yes I am a Schleck fan/supporter. Thus I clearly linked the blog to the petition. Why are you insinuating there is something sneaky or underhanded about that? If you choose not to sign the petition that is completely your prerogative, but please don't try to apply some kind of label to me. People in glass houses you know...

Last year when Valverde got pulled in before the World's it was the same crap. Yes I am a fan of him as well.

"Interestingly" I am also a huge supporter of Christian Vande Velde as well. As well as Team Garmin Chipotle p/b H30. Would you like to see my creds RE that affiliation? Tell me that team isn't doing it's share with regards to anti-doping.

How much money have you donated, LangerDan, to the US anti-doping agency? What have you done to support clean riding and to move cycling from out of the shadow it has been under for the last decade?

I'm tired, tired, tired of OP. If you want them to keep digging up the dead- knock yourself out man. You'll be doing a lot of digging. Let's see...Mercks, Paul Duboc, Henri, Francis and Charles Pelissier, Fausto Coppi, Jean Mallejac, Roger Riviere,
Charly Gaul, Knud Enemark Jensen, Gastone Nencini, Raymond Poulidor, Jacques Anquetil, Tom Simpson, Jaine Huelamo, Aad van den Hoek, and that's just through the 1970s.

Shall we erase these cyclists from the records because the UCI and some folks don't want to drop their holier than thou attitude? The world is changing. Dope Free races are becoming the norm. It's what the fans want. For years that was NOT the norm. So you're going to rehash and regurgitate OP until you get every last blood bag accounted for are you? Good Luck and good riddance.

Regards

magster200

slimreaper wrote:

Magster
Why 1 year? Why not 2 or 3?
Where do you stand on testing old samples of maybe 9 months old when a new test becomes available, if there are "suspicions" a rider is dodgy?
Andy

One year because if a rider demonstrates that he is "clean" for one year he/she should be given a clean slate. Doping was the MO for soooo long and the new anti-doping crusades are relatively new (in the force and repercussions they have for both cyclists and fans). Landis didn't get stripped of the maillot jeune that long ago my friend. Doping has become the hot topic in the last couple of years and most riders have realized this and have ceased and desisted.

What would be your choice of time frame? 4 years? 5? 10? 20? How many guys would we have in the pro peloton? Be realistic.

For goodness sakes. I am from the US and if you told me that Sir Lancelot or LeMonster were not doping I would laugh in your face.

Regards

slimreaper

Magster
Chill out man. I was only asking why one year out of interest, and was wondering what the rationale was. I did not suggest that it should be any different.
You still have not clarified why it should be one year. I am not trying to be obstructive, I am genuinely interested.
Do you think that if you have a blanket one year "clean" period for all riders, there will be less of a deterrent in terms of riders hoping the "new" drug that they are being offered, and may not be detectable on current tests, is worth a try as testing labs are always one step behind the drug companies. If tests are looking further back, surely this will make some people think harder before taking PEDs. When a rider does not test positive, it is not necessarily the case that they are clean.
Also, while you say doping has become the hot topic of the last few years, and people have ceased to dope, it was a fairly hot topic 10 years ago - Festina - yet we have continued to get plenty of riders testing positive. While I agree, it is reasonable to think less riders are doping, and more are being caught, there are obviously those who will continue.
Andy

richard wants a baum

Hahahah, Magster so Schleck maybe better than Evans but his also dirter ( side note Maggie joined a forum based in Aus. thats really for ppl who watch one cycling race a year guess which one and baited the entire forum talking crap about Evans which had ppl frothing at the mouth. was fun to watch. Maggie used comparisons with Schleck to stir the Evans Loving Aussie Pot) Just kidding the fact is nothing actually come out other that some money and not alot of money was wired. Lets see what Schleck has to say for himself before we all start shout BURN HIM BURN HIM.

guv001

[/quote]
but please don't try to apply some kind of label to me. People in glass houses you know...
[/quote]

Just interested to know why I'm in a glass house, I haven't tried to support someone who is under suspicion.

You seems to have a bit of rage going on there. Everything is calm.....

Kléber

The petition's hilarious. Give everyone a clean pass from all their past worries is just a way to rewrite history, to pretend the past events didn't happen. Remember, doping is a crime in some countries, a mere petition to suspend criminal law for the convenience of naive sports fans is the stuff of teenage fanboys.

LangerDan

magster200 wrote:

Interesting that you noticed that I deliberately placed the link to the blog on the petition. I don't want to be viewed under false pretenses. Yes I am a Schleck fan/supporter. Thus I clearly linked the blog to the petition. Why are you insinuating there is something sneaky or underhanded about that? If you choose not to sign the petition that is completely your prerogative, but please don't try to apply some kind of label to me. People in glass houses you know...

The protracted investigation into OP was no more or no less valid last week before the Italian police came knocking on hotel doors in Varese. Is it solely because one of your preferred riders has been targetted that you started the petition?

magster200 wrote:

How much money have you donated, LangerDan, to the US anti-doping agency? What have you done to support clean riding and to move cycling from out of the shadow it has been under for the last decade?

Why would I want to do that? I'm not in the US, I don't ride under the jurisdiction of USADA. In any case, as a Spanish gynaecologist I'm making too much money from the darker side of cycling.


I'll sign such a petition when, in return, every valv.piti, amigo di birillo (and birillo himself), hamilton, ullrich and anyone else promises to make a full statement about what they did, what doctors, managers, soigneurs and officials were complicit in this and how they evaded detection for so long. No punishments, no suspensions but no more "I only attemped doping" cr@p either.
BTW, certain current team managers can start with the glasnost too.

Its a fundamental component of most belief systems that in order to obtain forgiveness, you must make a full confession of your sins. If professional cycling wishes to have yet another fresh start, they can start by being a little more forthcoming about their past.

Jez mon

I'm tired of hearing about Operation Puerto as well. IF Frank and Andy have been clean for the last two years then they have put some amazing performances together and have been shinning examples that you can succeed without dope and IF that is the case then banning would be a huge loss.

However, I would love to see some other sports have some dirt dug up from OP

magster200

richard wants a baum wrote:

Hahahah, Magster so Schleck maybe better than Evans but his also dirter ( side note Maggie joined a forum based in Aus. thats really for ppl who watch one cycling race a year guess which one and baited the entire forum talking crap about Evans which had ppl frothing at the mouth. was fun to watch. Maggie used comparisons with Schleck to stir the Evans Loving Aussie Pot) Just kidding the fact is nothing actually come out other that some money and not alot of money was wired. Lets see what Schleck has to say for himself before we all start shout BURN HIM BURN HIM.

Yes Mr. McQuaid- You are correct in all that you say and do. Are you actually associated with UCI or just a self-appointed toady? To save you some time in your "inquisition" I also smoked pot once upon a time.

BTW- who're your favorite riders? Or do you hate all of them equally? I save my needling for Cuddles.

magster200

guv001 wrote:

but please don't try to apply some kind of label to me. People in glass houses you know...
[/quote]

Just interested to know why I'm in a glass house, I haven't tried to support someone who is under suspicion.

You seems to have a bit of rage going on there. Everything is calm.....[/quote]

No Rage- it's all good.

celbianchi

damage36 wrote:

******* hell.
If Schleck is found guilty, and anything was linked Andy, Cancellera and Voigt the same, I'll give up cycling. Its a who's who of my favourite cyclists.

Why would more pro's (if any of them have of course) cheating make you want to give up cycling.

It is annoying when yet another big name is exposed as a cheat, but them getting caught does not make me want to give up racing as an amateur.

drenkrom

leguape wrote:

So that's Jen Voigt, a man of whom Jorg Jaksche said that if he's doping then we all might as well give us?

I remember very vividly (I read it again last week) that Jaksche had words about Voigt that were more to the effect of "He can say what he likes about others, but I for one know what was going on at CSC, so it may come back to bite him someday".

How can someone talk of clearing his slate because he's stayed off the radar for two years? There is a recorded transaction from his own bank account to one linked to Fuentes' practices, ferchrissake! This will be impossible to deny (the bank records do not lie unless you know how to make them lie) and very difficult to justify. They never had such solid dirt on any of the other riders who took the hit for Puerto, remember. Appart from Ulllrich, but that was not acted legally on by the German authorities. Frank is in some deeeeeeeep doo-doo.

richard wants a baum

magster200

Yes Mr. McQuaid- You are correct in all that you say and do. Are you actually associated with UCI or just a self-appointed toady? To save you some time in your "inquisition" I also smoked pot once upon a time.

BTW- who're your favorite riders? Or do you hate all of them equally? I save my needling for Cuddles.

Firstly sorry whats the McQuaid thing about? didnt follow that at all. Secondly i dont really have a favourite rider i just really like watching the racing, having said that im from adelaide australia and i do follow Stuey Ogrady. A rider testing positive really doesnt upset me and i certainly dont want to stop riding because of it, never understood that. Why does something someone else does effect your enjoyment of a sport?

Question, how do you prove your clean when its hard enough proving riders doped?

idaviesmoore

Kléber wrote:

The petition's hilarious. Give everyone a clean pass from all their past worries is just a way to rewrite history, to pretend the past events didn't happen. .

I think if you ignore it, it'll probably go away

(That's the petition, I mean, not the past)

LangerDan

drenkrom wrote:

leguape wrote:

So that's Jen Voigt, a man of whom Jorg Jaksche said that if he's doping then we all might as well give us?

I remember very vividly (I read it again last week) that Jaksche had words about Voigt that were more to the effect of "He can say what he likes about others, but I for one know what was going on at CSC, so it may come back to bite him someday".

The quote was on p83 of Issue 109:

On Jens Voight a former CSC team mate. When the Festina scandal broke during the 1998 Tour, Jaksche alleges he had a discussion with the then-GAN rider who said a team-mate had suggested "burying all the stuff along the Tour race route"

"I don't want to talk about other riders, but Jens Voight is the exception. I never had any problems with him and always thought he was an honest soul. But I was at CSC, and I, for my part, know what happened there. And I know what happened, back in the days when EPO wasn't detectable yet"