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£2500 for a basic Trek Madone

grantusgrantus Posts: 690
edited October 2008 in Campaign
Why does it cost so much?

Why can a brand new Yamaha motorcycle be had for the same amount as a push bicycle?

Why can Wiggle sell Focus full Carbon bikes with Ultegra spec. for £1000 or Planet X with dura-ace bits for the same whereas the trek with Ultegra is £2500?

Not necessarliy picking on Trek - just I saw the new Madone online the other day and thought how can the price tag be justified? Surely that price cannot be reflective of the price of the components that make up that machine?

Would be interested in opinions on this

Posts

  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    why does a computer that consists of raw materials costing pennies cost £500+?

    It is because he components are "value added" items ie they have a demand for them and a "value added" element to them
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  • grantusgrantus Posts: 690
    However with computers the price of hardware has consistently fallen over the last ten years as the quality of the components has increased
  • Let see.

    Won the tour in 2007. Hand made of the finest grades of Carbon fibre. Is still the best value for money of any bike ridden by Pro's (not all on the 6 series)

    Seems cheap when Cheapest Pinarello Prince is about 4K

    Ps the other Frames ARE NOT as good
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    Let see.

    Won the tour in 2007. Hand made of the finest grades of Carbon fibre. Is still the best value for money of any bike ridden by Pro's (not all on the 6 series)

    Seems cheap when Cheapest Pinarello Prince is about 4K

    Ps the other Frames ARE NOT as good

    how do you comeup with that? Is the Trek cheaper than all the other Pro bikes?
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

    Twittering @spen_666
  • Price a new cervelo P4 or ask the price of the 12lb storck in my lbs and then tell me the trek is expensive.
  • Check out Marcel wust's review ow the Madone 5.2 on this site..he rave's about it. You get what you pay for
    Sometimes you have to lose yourself
    before you can find anything.
  • Something's worth what somebody will pay for it.
    I personally find Harry Enfield's "I saw you coming" shop as a perfect example of that!
    So, to answer the question "Why does it cost so much"?
    I'd answer "Because that's what enough people will pay to buy one".
    Give it a year, then see it in the ads back of Procycling for "£1,000 off"! :D
    Mind you, it's so last year when that happens. :wink:
    Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.
  • Something's worth what somebody will pay for it.
    I personally find Harry Enfield's "I saw you coming" shop as a perfect example of that!
    So, to answer the question "Why does it cost so much"?
    I'd answer "Because that's what enough people will pay to buy one".
    Give it a year, then see it in the ads back of Procycling for "£1,000 off"! :D
    Mind you, it's so last year when that happens. :wink:

    I think you're right but I've just bought one and its GREAT! I don't know what the mark-up is on the 5.2 but if you were a bike shop then the £5000 madone 6.9 would cost you £3000. Sounds a lot I suppose but my LBS employs 3 people, is a fairly big shop in town with probably very high rates and doen't make massive profits. The web sites can do it cheaper because of overheads but as the chap at my LBS says, "if you buy online then the shop will fold". I pay a bit more and use my local shop. Ok I' probably daft but hey ho!

    BTW I'm saving up for a 6.9 for next year, from my LBS :roll:
  • spen666 wrote:
    Let see.

    Won the tour in 2007. Hand made of the finest grades of Carbon fibre. Is still the best value for money of any bike ridden by Pro's (not all on the 6 series)

    Seems cheap when Cheapest Pinarello Prince is about 4K

    Ps the other Frames ARE NOT as good

    how do you comeup with that? Is the Trek cheaper than all the other Pro bikes?

    Prince £3K FRAME
    C50 £3K Frame
    Time VXRS £3K Frame

    Madone 5 Series £1400 Frameset

    That's how
  • Are Trek doing the 5.2 in a Frameset only this year?
  • that's a bogus comparison re. the 5 series Madone vs. Prince. The equivalent to the Prince is the 6.9 ... top of line very light bike used by the top pros. Don't think any of Astana are riding anything other than 6 series now?

    So the Trek is bloody expensive too. Best value pro bike? nonsense. What about Canyon for one?

    I do really like them though. they have a workmanlike quality to them which appeals to me. would never buy one because of the non-replaceable hanger.

    to the OP ... it's worth it because people will pay it. The actual difference between it and the planet-x is very little other than the branding
  • nypdnypd Posts: 188
    Not seen how .much Treks are selling for right now, but wasnt the rrp for the new 08 5.2 Madone with 10spd Ultegra SL £2300.
  • that's a bogus comparison re. the 5 series Madone vs. Prince. The equivalent to the Prince is the 6.9 ... top of line very light bike used by the top pros. Don't think any of Astana are riding anything other than 6 series now?

    So the Trek is bloody expensive too. Best value pro bike? nonsense. What about Canyon for one?

    I do really like them though. they have a workmanlike quality to them which appeals to me. would never buy one because of the non-replaceable hanger.

    to the OP ... it's worth it because people will pay it. The actual difference between it and the planet-x is very little other than the branding

    My argument was the 5.2 won the tour in 2007
  • nypdnypd Posts: 188
    that's a bogus comparison re. the 5 series Madone vs. Prince. The equivalent to the Prince is the 6.9 ... top of line very light bike used by the top pros. Don't think any of Astana are riding anything other than 6 series now?

    So the Trek is bloody expensive too. Best value pro bike? nonsense. What about Canyon for one?

    I do really like them though. they have a workmanlike quality to them which appeals to me. would never buy one because of the non-replaceable hanger.

    to the OP ... it's worth it because people will pay it. The actual difference between it and the planet-x is very little other than the branding

    My argument was the 5.2 won the tour in 2007

    Was it really a 5.2 http://cyclingnews.com/photos/2007/tour ... 0720/fs003

    or just a 5.2 frameset. I think Trek did do the 5.5SL frame in the black & yellow paint job.

    I know for the cost of a off the peg ready to go 5.2 you aint getting Bontrager Hed Aeolus wheels and Dura-Ace groupset.

    So you cant really say the 5.2 won the 07 TDF. Thats if it even was a 5.2 frame.
  • Big Red SBig Red S Posts: 26,890
    Surely that price cannot be reflective of the price of the components that make up that machine?
    Presumably, when you have an electrician or plumber in, you expect to only pay them for the raw materials you're left with, not their time and expertise in using them?
  • Big Red S wrote:
    Surely that price cannot be reflective of the price of the components that make up that machine?

    Surely the same could be said for pretty much anything that's available, couldn't it?

    Rolls-Royce, Porsche, Armani, Louis Vitton, Jimmy Choo, Tag, Sony, Apple....the list is endless. Most things are worth as much as the people who that particular product is aimed at will pay.
    Nobody forces anyone to buy anything (apart from my wife forcing me to buy a camouflage collar for one of my dogs :oops: ). If you don't agree with the price then buy a Carerra :)
    'How can an opinion be bullsh1t?' High Fidelity
  • Big Red SBig Red S Posts: 26,890
    Yup.

    my point was that whenever you buy a product, the large bulk of the price is often not paying for the materials, but for the people and processes involved in making those raw materials into a product that's in a shop.
  • Big Red S wrote:
    Yup.

    my point was that whenever you buy a product, the large bulk of the price is often not paying for the materials, but for the people and processes involved in making those raw materials into a product that's in a shop.

    Yeah, sorry Big Red, I edited your name onto my response rather than OPers. Sorry :oops:
    'How can an opinion be bullsh1t?' High Fidelity
  • Big Red SBig Red S Posts: 26,890
    I did wonder, but figured I may as well reply anyway...
  • pliptrotpliptrot Posts: 582
    Someone here mentioned profit - you can be sure Trek make a handsome profit on this bike. Someone also mentioned that this bike "won the... Tour..", well that costs, and you're paying (if you buy one of these).

    The price bears little relation to the cost - it's about what you're prepared and able to pay. Everyone and every company tries it on like that, and it's considered good business practice, apparently.
  • jojo90jojo90 Posts: 178
    I doubt the difference between the Trek and the Focus is worth the cash. I do understand the difference between frames however I also understand the concept of brand premium :)
  • NlEDERMEYERNlEDERMEYER Posts: 1,343
    nypd wrote:
    Not seen how .much Treks are selling for right now, but wasnt the rrp for the new 08 5.2 Madone with 10spd Ultegra SL £2300.


    They've been put up across the board - basically the price point has moved up one level (5.2 is now £2,600, which was price for 5.5 in 2008). However you could argue that the groupsets etc have improved, so you are getting like for like. Also bear in mind how feeble the pound is at the moment.

    The dealer margin on Treks is excellent - reckon on that £2,500 bike costing them £1,450 plus VAT. Compared to the likes of Pinarello and Colnago, where the margin is 15% or less, they are very good business. You would probably be able to negotiate a discount except for the fact they can usually sell all the bikes they can get their hands on.
    Bulbous also tapered
  • Niedermeyer estimates a mark up of 15% for a Colnago or Pinarello. I think he,s way off the mark. An LBS mechanic I know got a Colnago retailing at £2600 ish for £980 . Strongly suspect the mark up on most top endish bikes is between 2.5 to 3 times the buy in price.

    The TREK at £2500 probably cost the shop about £850 to £1000. But lets not forget our friend VAT , on this TREK the customer will pay about £375 effectively for nothing.

    Unless you need to be the first in the gang with a new model in his hand wait for the end of season sales, after all what do you gain being impatient ?
  • nypdnypd Posts: 188
    Wow they must have upped their prices since i last popped down to my Trek dealer. I always thought Trek increased the price from £2000 for the 5200 to £2100 for the original Madone the one with the 'shark fin' shaped seat tube & 10spd Ultegra then to £2300 for the new Madone, maybe the 2.3k was before they started fitting Ultegra SL. £2.5k for the 5.2 does seem to be a bit top end for me, but i guess Trek are selling them at that price.

    Glad i purchased my original Madone with 10spd Ultegra in the sale at £1300.

    A good friend of mine had his own cycle shop and was the Orbea dealer for Sheffield. I remember him showing me the mark up on the top of the range carbon Orca with 10spd Campag Record, cant remember the exact amount off hand but it was up in the 1,000's. I think 2k + would be a good ball park amount.
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