Any tips for climbing?

Russell160

Thanks y'all for the advice, even the moderately amusing diversion into football related japery. To answer the points raised:
-I live in Colne and ride around Pendle HIll, a 'sportive' route available from local council.
-I take the point about weight loss. I have in fact lost nearly three stone in last two years and can now take on hlills that I would previously have flaked out on. It's made a big difference as expected. I just want to nail the last half stone and I'll be like a whippet.
-I'll take the advice and probably try and work some hill diversions into my commute just to build experience.

winkywonky

One of the best bits of advice I got was just to ride more. I go to Italy once a year and after doing relatively little climbing here (in comparison) I found that the improvement was huge. Saying that this coincides with my first year racing so there is that extra fitness benefit. I find technique differs climb to climb, some can be in saddle, out, big ring, etc.. I don't think you should set yourself too many rules as I'm sure you'l develop your own techniques. Let's face it climbing is hard for some of us no matter what we do.

ColinJ

Russell160 wrote:

I live in Colne and ride around Pendle HIll, a 'sportive' route available from local council.
-I take the point about weight loss. I have in fact lost nearly three stone in last two years and can now take on hlills that I would previously have flaked out on. It's made a big difference as expected. I just want to nail the last half stone and I'll be like a whippet.

Hi Russell.

I rode out your way yesterday - from Hebden Bridge to Trawden via Widdop and back via Laneshaw Bridge and Haworth. I found the hills a bit tough, but that is because I've put a lot of weight on over the past couple of years.

I have a nice low 'granny' gear available for the worst climbs and that is a big help. Going up 20%+ hills in a 30/28 gear is much easier than it was when I had to do them in 42/28.

If you ride hills often enough and use low enough gears, you'll eventually get up most of them okay. As you get slimmer and fitter, you'll be able to go quicker and use higher gears.

wiffachip

W5454 wrote:

If soccerball fans want to discuss that sport they should eff off to a soccerball forum. :twisted:

I mentioned football as a lighthearted comment after offering some genuine advice

you've contributed precisely nowt, so how about you do one to another forum with your pearls of wisdom

SCR Pedro

Hey there,

I agree 100% that practice is the best way to improve.

But does anyone else use mental imagery? I try to imagine myself from a spectators point of view. This encourages me to keep a smooth rythmn. Or if that doesn't work, you could imagine the voice of your favourite commentator shouting about how the peloton is about to take you back. Sometimes I get out of the saddle and go full gas as if I'm blowing the peloton wide open.

Of course this won't give you more power, but it can certainly give you a motivational kick up the ass.

Cheers
Pedro

celbianchi

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

Ride hills, lots of them. It brings on most areas of your cycling as well, not just your climbing. Practise climbs that allow you to cover all types of climbing, whether it's balls to the wall out of the saddle efforts or methodically climbing sat down.

Are you coming along to Carlton Bank again next Sunday for the Cleveland Hill Climb?
Not sure how I will go up it this year as I have the Otley 2 stage the day before, so 3 wicked races in 2 days is going to hurt.

One way to improve your hill climbing is to enter some races on them, it will focus the mind!
Obviously carrying as little weight as possible helps, but you don't have to be 9st soaking wet to get up them fast, I am 11st 6lbs and have a pretty good power to weight ratio which sees me doing ok in hillclimb races.

scapaslow

As CelBianchi says the key thing to climbing faster is your power to weight ratio. So the two most important things you can do if possible are to lose weight and increase your power.

There are lots of tips on training with power on the training forum. The main problem with this for most of us is the cost of a power meter. Without one, i reckon one way is to find the longest local climb that has a fairly constant gradient (but not too steep) and practice going up as fast as you can. If you are not hanging over the bars at the end gasping for breath then you need to go harder. Or ride hard into headwinds. Or both! After a few weeks you might begin to see your time up the hill improve.

I try to watch the speedometer and set a target minimum speed which i always try to keep above. Next time raise the bar slightly. A 1mph rise in speed over a hill can shave a lot of time off. I've reduced my best time on what was a 20min climb down to 18mins doing this in the last few weeks. Its hard work though. Especially when the gradient eases a little and you want to take a rest but you know you've got to raise the speed.

The thing is i've heard of people doing this climb in 13mins! Talk about feeling inadequate....

Jazza1969

To add my tuppence worth to this debate - first of all I don't profess to be the fittest 38 year old, nor in any way a climbing champion. However, I do live in hilly West Lothian, get plenty of climbing practice as a result. Flat routes don't do much for me!

From my experience I would say:

1 Warm up - especially stretch the hamstrings. They do a lot of the work uphill, and if they tighten it's tough going.

2 Change down to a lower gear well in advance. Don't labour on in a big gear until it gets impossible. You lose your momentum and the cadence goes right down, and so does the speed. It's hard to get the cadence back up again half way up the hill, so try to keep it steady from the off and anticipate the increase in gradient.

3 Mashing a big gear for too long when you should be spinning uses up all your energy. It causes muscle fatigue. That might be ok if its a 10 mile run. If you however are on a run of more than 50 miles, the remainder of the run might be a real striggle if you overgear it on the climbs. If you get that "legs like jelly" feeling, it's hard to recover without stopping completely.

4 If the hill is so steep that you can't keep a steady rhythm in the saddle, get up even for a short while. Standing up transfers more power and can help get the momentum back up for when you sit down again. Also, it rests the quads and hamstrings which do a lot of the work when climbing in the saddle. It's worth just getting out the saddle now and again on a longer climb just to use different muscles. Standing up does use more energy but sitting down again and spinning actually feels like recovery afterwards! Remember to pull up as well as press down on the pedals when spinning. The difference that makes is quite marked.

5 Drink plenty water, and use energy bars and gels. They work. Again, don't wait until you're knackered. Take them steadily.

6 Don't worry about speed, just keep a steady cadence. Sometimes you feel you might be quicker walking. Take solace from the fact that many might well do eactly that - get off and walk! There's a sense of achievement to get to the top of a hard climb, knowing you cycled all the way there. Much like climbing a Munro!

7 As has been said, try squats in the gym for more downward strength especially in the calves, plus work on quads and hamstrings. Allow time to recover though. Training on a heavier bike or a single speed can have the same effect.

8 Check your gearing. Compact and triple chainsets are the way to go if you do a lot of climbing.

[Deleted User]

One thing Ive learned is not to let off a few yards from the top thinking you have made it and lose all your momentum. That really takes it out and knocks your confidence. If you spin a few yards more than needed it always feels better and then recover on the way down.

Also if its tough sometimes I look down towards my front wheel so I don get distracted with how long the hill is.

The Bullet

But does anyone else use mental imagery? I try to imagine myself from a spectators point of view. This encourages me to keep a smooth rythmn.

This is a great technique which i think really works. The day before, the morning before and the hour before a big climb i imagine myself sprinting over the top of it - this way i have already conditioned my brain to except this outcome.

Aim to go up a hill at a steady pace - say 85-90% effort - then explode out of the saddle at 100% effort and sprint over the top - this has helped me loads.[/code]

thedaffodilfish

Jazza1969 wrote:

However, I do live in hilly West Lothian, get plenty of climbing practice as a result..

Jazza, any routes or hills in particular you can recommend? I mostly go out East Lothian or maybe to S Queensferry, but would like train on a few different routes.

Garry H

thedaffodilfish wrote:

Jazza1969 wrote:

However, I do live in hilly West Lothian, get plenty of climbing practice as a result..

Jazza, any routes or hills in particular you can recommend? I mostly go out East Lothian or maybe to S Queensferry, but would like train on a few different routes.

Was going to ask exactly the same question! Do most of my cycling out towards the Borders, which are quite hilly, but they're not actually that steep, just long.

Saturn

I find it helps if I try to forget all about my feet and pedals and concentrate on my knees, thinking about bringing them over the top of the stroke. I think it just helps me pedal in circles but it seems to work for me when I remember to do it.

fuzzdog

It's important to keep your breathing under control. This sounds a bit strange but I kind of beat out a rhythm with my breathing. Like a drum beat made up of small ins and outs. It helps to keep it controlled and also takes your mind off the pain a bit. Works for me anyway.

Also keep a spare gear just in case you really need it. You'll be glad you did when the hill suddenly gets a bit steeper when you are really hurting.

It's all about rhythm

shockedsoshocked

celbianchi wrote:

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

Ride hills, lots of them. It brings on most areas of your cycling as well, not just your climbing. Practise climbs that allow you to cover all types of climbing, whether it's balls to the wall out of the saddle efforts or methodically climbing sat down.

Are you coming along to Carlton Bank again next Sunday for the Cleveland Hill Climb?
Not sure how I will go up it this year as I have the Otley 2 stage the day before, so 3 wicked races in 2 days is going to hurt.

One way to improve your hill climbing is to enter some races on them, it will focus the mind!
Obviously carrying as little weight as possible helps, but you don't have to be 9st soaking wet to get up them fast, I am 11st 6lbs and have a pretty good power to weight ratio which sees me doing ok in hillclimb races.

Hi Cel, I should be there this year too. Not competing as I intended due to a pretty poor summers riding. I haven't been up Carlton Bank in a good few weeks You are the chap who had that lovely BMC machine right?

Jazza1969

Garry H wrote:

thedaffodilfish wrote:

Jazza1969 wrote:

However, I do live in hilly West Lothian, get plenty of climbing practice as a result..

Jazza, any routes or hills in particular you can recommend? I mostly go out East Lothian or maybe to S Queensferry, but would like train on a few different routes.

Was going to ask exactly the same question! Do most of my cycling out towards the Borders, which are quite hilly, but they're not actually that steep, just long.

Any direction from Linlithgow involves hilly riding! There was a route featured in CyclingPlus (I think April this year) which includes some of the best of the "Bathgate Alps", notably the climb up to Cairnpapple and the Knock (pretty serious from both the Bathgate and Linlithgow sides, and from Torphichen for that matter), up from Dechmont back towards Linlithgow, and the really quite evil Kingscavil between Linlithgow and Threemiletown. There's plenty more between these. I also include the wee road past Abercorn Church at the side of Hopetoun House as part of my run - its deceptively steep in both directions. Also the narrow road past West Lothian Golf Club via the Bonsyde hotel north of Linlithgow is worth adding.

Can you recommend any East Lothian / Borders routes?

nosmo-king

I agrre totally with you Jazza, although on some of the tough hills here in North Wales I don't stand up at all!
I tend to look at the tarmac immediately in front of the front wheel and just look up at certain points or time intervals. This depends on how busy the traffic is of course.
I ride a custom built 25 year old Harry Hall tourer and the triple chainset has meant that in all that time I have never had to get off and walk!

celbianchi

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

celbianchi wrote:

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

Ride hills, lots of them. It brings on most areas of your cycling as well, not just your climbing. Practise climbs that allow you to cover all types of climbing, whether it's balls to the wall out of the saddle efforts or methodically climbing sat down.

Are you coming along to Carlton Bank again next Sunday for the Cleveland Hill Climb?
Not sure how I will go up it this year as I have the Otley 2 stage the day before, so 3 wicked races in 2 days is going to hurt.

One way to improve your hill climbing is to enter some races on them, it will focus the mind!
Obviously carrying as little weight as possible helps, but you don't have to be 9st soaking wet to get up them fast, I am 11st 6lbs and have a pretty good power to weight ratio which sees me doing ok in hillclimb races.

Hi Cel, I should be there this year too. Not competing as I intended due to a pretty poor summers riding. I haven't been up Carlton Bank in a good few weeks You are the chap who had that lovely BMC machine right?

Yes, that's me. My partner is riding it this year as well, she came down for a look at it yesterday and agrees with me that it is one of the hardest hills around. It's a proper brute. Dunno what I was thinking entering Otley as well the day before. Hmmm...

Doobz

Climbing Tip 1
Relax your shoulders. It's common to tense torso muscles under the strain of climbing. But when you pull your shoulders to your ears and hunch your back, breathing is restricted and energy is wasted. It's also harder to maintain a straight line when riding with rigid shoulders.

Climbing Tip 2
Flex your elbows. Keeping elbows bent helps reduce tensing up, and lessens upper-body stiffness. Of course, you need to pull on the handlebar to be in synch with leg thrusts, but you can do it without locked elbows and rigid arms. This is another key to holding a smooth, straight line whilst climbing.

Climbing Tip 3
Shift up when standing up. Going from seated to standing causes cadence to drop. This in turn reduces speed - unless you shift to the next higher gear (smaller rear cog) on the pedal stroke before you leave the saddle. Conversely, shift to the next larger cog just as you sit back down. The lower gear will help you increase cadence to keep your speed.

Climbing Tip 4
Be smooth. Make every move easily and economically. Don't fight the bike or your body. Think "fluid." This is particularly important in the transitions from sitting to standing and back - even more so when riding in a group where jerky movements endanger other riders.

Climbing Tip 5
Stay seated for greater efficiency. If your gearing is correct, you should be able to remain in the saddle for all but the steepest sections. That's good because for most riders, standing causes a heart rate increase of about 5-10 bpm. On long climbs, however, it's helpful to splurge a little energy and stand occasionally for a few seconds even if the grade doesn't demand it. Doing so relieves saddle pressure and stretches the legs and lower back.

Climbing Tip 6
Lighten your grip. Squeezing the bar isn't necessary but ‘white knuckle fever’ can happen during the stress of climbing. Sit up and rest your hands wide on the bar top. Just be sure to keep at least one thumb wrapped under the bar to prevent both hands from being jarred loose by an unexpected bump. Before standing, move your hands to the brake lever hoods.

S2driveruk

excellent, thanks for that - will be trying to put that into practice and the other advice on this thread in the coming months.

shockedsoshocked

celbianchi wrote:

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

celbianchi wrote:

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

Ride hills, lots of them. It brings on most areas of your cycling as well, not just your climbing. Practise climbs that allow you to cover all types of climbing, whether it's balls to the wall out of the saddle efforts or methodically climbing sat down.

Are you coming along to Carlton Bank again next Sunday for the Cleveland Hill Climb?
Not sure how I will go up it this year as I have the Otley 2 stage the day before, so 3 wicked races in 2 days is going to hurt.

One way to improve your hill climbing is to enter some races on them, it will focus the mind!
Obviously carrying as little weight as possible helps, but you don't have to be 9st soaking wet to get up them fast, I am 11st 6lbs and have a pretty good power to weight ratio which sees me doing ok in hillclimb races.

Hi Cel, I should be there this year too. Not competing as I intended due to a pretty poor summers riding. I haven't been up Carlton Bank in a good few weeks You are the chap who had that lovely BMC machine right?

Yes, that's me. My partner is riding it this year as well, she came down for a look at it yesterday and agrees with me that it is one of the hardest hills around. It's a proper brute. Dunno what I was thinking entering Otley as well the day before. Hmmm...

Yup it's a toughie alright. Most blokes I cycle with have only been up it a handful of times and most have been riding 10years +

whyamihere

Doobz wrote:

Climbing Tip 5
Stay seated for greater efficiency. If your gearing is correct, you should be able to remain in the saddle for all but the steepest sections. That's good because for most riders, standing causes a heart rate increase of about 5-10 bpm. On long climbs, however, it's helpful to splurge a little energy and stand occasionally for a few seconds even if the grade doesn't demand it. Doing so relieves saddle pressure and stretches the legs and lower back.

Standing occasionally is an excellent point. My rides have virtually no flat sections, so I spend a lot of time climbing, but rarely steep stuff. I make a point of standing up for a few seconds every 10 minutes or so, otherwise because I'm bent over so far climbing my back starts to cramp up.

pdrolo

in a serious sense - a lot of it is about weight. when I am on a club run - you see the field sort - the little skinny guys go to the front, while the big guys slip to the back.
I ve been commutting since about april - only 12 mile round trip - its quite a busy route traffic wise, so I ain't pushing it - but I have lost about 5-6 pound in weight - this has has made quite a difference to my climbing on my weekend rides.

others tips - unzip you jersey as you approach a climb - I prefer seated climbing on long climbs - take it at your own pace - and try to avoid blowing up..

all that said - Im still a pretty crap climber !

celbianchi

The final piece I would add to this would be the mental side of things.

Teach yourself to look forward to climbs, don't fear them. Even in our club, where everyone races some still fear hills.
In my opinion a lot of it is about having a willingness to suffer. Hills hurt for sure, but think of it this way, if you train so you can go up them quicker, it does not hurt any less, just hurts for less time (I think either robert Millar or Greg Lemond made this type of comment)

Russell160

Thanks everyone for the fantastic tips: I've been putting them into practice on two climbs on my Yorkshire commute, for those who know it: from Colne Road Cowling up to Cowling Pinnacles and the return climb: out of Sutton village up to Cowling Pinnacles. I've made it up going, but the return climb I've ended up stopping. I think this is because the first has some flattish recovery sections, but the second is just relentless. But I will keep trying and I know I'll get there soon. Realistically, a triple is gonna help a lot and I'm thinking about treating myself to one of the new Giant Defys. Plus good old fashioned weight loss. PLease feel free to add any more tips. ..now where's the Slim Fast...