Winstanleys Customer Service

cookiemonster

I ordered a pair of DT Swiss 1450 Mon Chasserals from Winstanley several weeks ago, which were up on their website at £400 for the pair. The site did say that there were none in stock, but that they normally would be dispatched within 2-7 days, and after placing the order I received an email saying the same. A few days later another email arrived saying they'd be with me on 18 September. This was more than 7 days, but all well and good - its new bike build, I'd love to get going immediately, but I can hang on a couple of weeks.

18 September comes and goes with no wheels, so the next day I phone them up to ask for an update. I'm told that they'll send me an email, nothing happens, I call the next day, same response, still nothing. On the Monday I receive two emails, one for the front, one for the rear:

Item: DT Swiss 1450 Mon Chasseral Rear Wheel - Colour Options: White / Hub Option: Campagnolo / - we have contacted our suppliers again, and have been informed that it has been discontinued.

I was a little suprised to hear that Mon Chasserals have been discontinued, so I gave Madison, the main UK supplier a call, who said that a) yes they have the wheels in stock, b) there's no plans to discontinue them, and c) Winstanley does have an account with them.

I called up WInstanley and it transpires that they'd got some Mon Chasserals from the other DT Swiss distributor, Pace, at a cheap price, but that Pace had discontinued them. So it was only partially true to say that the product had been discontinued - the full truth is that the product was no longer available to Winstanley at the reduced price, though it was still available to them through their other supplier at an increased cost.

Knowing now that they did have the wheels available, I asked them to fulfill the orginal order, their reply was that they would only do so at the increased price of £550. I then asked if we could come to some agreement between the £400 order I had placed, and the £550 they now charged - cost, plus delivery, plus whatever they felt appropriate given they'd let me down. By this time I was talking to someone more senior who left me in no uncertainty that they really couldnt give a toss - there was no recognition that they'd let a customer down, and absolutely no sense that they had any obligation to fulfil an order beyond the legal t&c's which basically state that until your credit card is charged nothing has happened. My choice was no wheels, or pay the new price of £550; the fact that I had pressed "buy" at £400, that they'd sent me a delivery date, that I'd waited weeks for the wheels to arrive meant nothing.

Legally they have clearly done nothing wrong. However its left me very disappointed, and I've the inconvenience of finding some new wheels after waiting a few weeks with the bike build on hold, They had the opportunity to provide a decent service - there is no practical reason that they could not deliver the order at some agreed price between the £400 and the new £550.

My only recourse is to name and shame - hence this post - and to never darken their website again,

Very interested to hear peoples opinions - whether I'm over reacting and its acceptable behaviour for Winstanley to advertise one price and then only offer to fulfil an order at a substantially increase price, or whether this kind of behaviour is not acceptable.

Cheers

Jon

Gazzaputt

One word. Shocking.

Not surprised though have heard real bad things about Winstanleys on other forums

giant_man

yes their stuff on their site is definitely cheaper but I would always ring first to check whether they actually have the stuff in stock. I do agree though, not good!

robbarker

When they accepted your order a contract was formed which is binding on them. Point this out to them in writing and give them 14 days to supply the wheels at the original price. You cab take them to court for breach of contract if they don't.

cookiemonster

It turns out that their terms and conditions dont have the amazon style "your order represents an offer to buy from us, which we accept only at the point we charge your card and stick your stuff in the post" caveat (at least not that I can find from looking - happy to proved wrong if someone else can find it), so, according to trading standards, we have a contract given we agreed a price, they sent me confirmation and a delivery date.

It would have to go to court, etc, and I dont want the wheels enough to go to the hassle, but it seems their un-professionalism extends to their own knowledge of their terms and conditions.

Apart from that, with the exception of wiggle and chain reaction, I also always phone to check stock and price before I order. I still dont expect the price to change on me though...

pneumatic

Sorry to hear your story. Cut your losses and get your money back asap.

I had the same treatment from them this year (details in a thread about them on here somewhere).

IMHO they behave like dishonest, fraudulent chancers. The thing is, I don't see why they do it. How do they think they are going to get away with making promises they cannot keep? It just makes loads of hassle for them and for their customers and lots of bad press on the forums. It's a senseless business model.

ragtop

I ordered a frame from these guys and it was delivered before the date quoted. So no problems with them so far. Have had probs with most of the sites incl. Wiggle and Chainreaction but also good days when transactions go fine.

It is a massive gamble with online stores. Another reason for supporting your local bike shop. The prices may be marginally more expensive but you get to speak to someone and see the goods before you buy them. And they are generally very helpful and moroften than not my local shop only charges for maintenance that is necessary. My local store has replaced spokes and other parts and only charged cost opf materials.

APIII

I think they don't know what they are doing half the time. I bought a folding bike for my wife a couple of months back, which was last year's model at a much reduced price. Stangely, a more expensive version turned up a few days later. I checked and they had indeed billed me the price for the reduced model. I hadn't realised at the time that they had such a bad rep for making mistakes, but i seem to have benefitted on that occasion.

Slow Downcp

Not used this place before, but may be worth a ring at £450 a pair?:

http://www.cycleworld.co.uk/category/82/Road_700C

hopper1

Well, I haven't used Whinstanley's so far.
I've read quite a bit about them, here and other forums, a little good, but a lot of bad posts.
So, I'll support the 'Name & Shame', and I wont even consider looking at their website in future.
There are plenty of other outlets giving a much better service.

robbarker

Behaviour like this from online retailers is not only taking the mickey out of consumers, it's also contributing to the death of local bike shops.

Advertising stuff you don't have in stock, but will order in from a wholesaler and post on at a significant markup is not helping us as customers, or the industry as a whole.

Please don't let them get away with it. If you push this one, they will give in.

campagone

Last year I ordered a Giant XTC mountain bike off them and it didn't turn up. They told me over the phone that the bike I ordered was out of stock (it was in stock on the website) and to get another one would take several weeks so I canceled the order.
But get this, they sent me an email which I don't think I was meant to receive, one of those internal ones between shop and warehouse which said they did have the bike but had sent it to someone else who had ordered a lesser model Giant, I'd like to have been a fly on the the wall when they found that one out.

Burton

Speak as you find they were spot on when I bought my Felt B2 from them last year. I did collect it mind you as it was about 5 mins from the ex birds house!

giant_man

There's a frame I fancy on their web site and it's 100 quid less than anywhere else. Do I chance it or walk away and get it elsewhere more expensive?

pneumatic

giant mancp wrote:

There's a frame I fancy on their web site and it's 100 quid less than anywhere else. Do I chance it or walk away and get it elsewhere more expensive?

go over there (Wigan) and ask to see it. Only then should you hand over any money.

BTW, they used the "we've sold it to someone else" story on me. Irony was, I was asking them to return to me a part that I had just sent them back because it was the wrong model and which they had promised to replace with the correct one.

My mental image of their warehouse is a big leaky shed full of crates and crates unsorted 8rses and elbows and a lot of confused looking operatives standing around lying to people on mobile phones.

NickFoz

Spent some time researching a budget hybrid bike as a Christmas present for a 12-year old. Their website showed a 2007 model at a discount. We called to check details and ordered it with various other bits. They called us back later to check delivery address etc and we happily waited for delivery, impressed with their service so far. When we called a few days later to check it had been despatched, it turned out it wasn’t available after all and apart from a refund we weren’t at all happy with the alternatives offered which would have broken the already tight budget. At one stage we were verbally offered a 2008 model at the same price but then they changed their mind - all very upsetting for mother and boy.

In the end we asked Trading Standards for their advice. Very easy get through, very helpful but reaistically there's not much to be done - but the ref number for that call will be added to their records. I recommend anyone with serious issues does the same so that the relevant authorities can keep an eye on the volume of complaints such as this.

We can all live with honest mistakes but consistently failing customers is another thing. Glad I found this thread so I could add my 2p worth.

Justpush

robbarker wrote:

When they accepted your order a contract was formed which is binding on them. Point this out to them in writing and give them 14 days to supply the wheels at the original price. You cab take them to court for breach of contract if they don't.

Not so at all Rob.
They have not accepted the order. This is their get out on the T&Cs.
However, specifications are subject to change without notice by the suppliers and as such we cannot be held responsible for any real or perceived discrepancies of products from their descriptions.
AND
Winstanleys disclaims damages of any kind, compensatory, direct, indirect or consequential damages, loss of data, income or profit, loss of or damage to property and claims of third parties implied or otherwise relating to use of this site. Price and availability information is subject to change without notice. Any rights not expressly granted herein are reserved.

I agree with cookie their customer service is bad, they should have at least offered a discount.

klystron

Just having some problems with Winstanleys - so decided to see if anyone else had had problems with them - wish I'd looked here before :shock:

I ordered an XT disc calliper which is clearly pictured on their site with an IS mount and with a description that includes the bullet point "International Standard Mount". To me this means it is an IS mount which is what I wanted. Needless to say what arrived was a POST mount.

I managed to get through on the phone to their customer service (a plus point!) but was then told that I had misinterpreted the web site. The person I spoke to was adamant that I should have known it was a POST mount. It is very difficult to have a reasoned argument with someone who uses such strange logic. I asked if perhaps they could send me an IS adaptor but was told that my only option was to return the calliper for a refund. However they then said they would refund the return postage as well - rather strange if the fault was mine. Also strange that the cost of the return postage is more or less the same as the cost of an adaptor - so why not just send me an adaptor?

The truth is that if they had just admitted that there was a mistake on the web site and sent me an adaptor, I would have thought they were good company. You never really know how good an on-line retailer is until something goes wrong. I think Wiggle, Chain Reaction and Merlin are good - but I've never had any problem with them, so they've never been put to the test.

A couple of other points I noticed -
In their T&Cs if you order a number of items and they discover they don't have them all in stock, they will send what they do have and charge for the full order. So you pay upfront for stuff that hasn't been supplied.
I asked to speak with the manager and was told he was busy but would call me back - which he didn't. I also asked for his name and was told that I could only have his first name because I wasn't allowed his second name under the Data Protection Act. Don't know if that's true - but not what I would expect from a business who claim to have a commitment to "Offering a friendly and professional service at all times"