Java certification - more money?

vermooten
vermooten Posts: 2,697
edited September 2008 in The bottom bracket
Hi,

Way off cycling here, but I know that a lot of cyclists are IT and software peeps so here goes:

We have an in-house team of Java developers of about 12 people. We are thinking of asking them to take Java certifcation exams to increase their knowledge and to provide confidence to top management that they are the real deal. One obstacle of course is that it takes time and energy to study - I know this cos I did the programmer exam myself in 2002. So I want to show the developers what the benefits of doing the exam(s) might be.

One of them is obviously an expectation of a raised salary - presumably if you have these exams you can command a higher salary....? but is this actually true? I can't find any evidence of this - can anyone point to evidence of this?

Cheers,
Andy
You just have to ride like you never have to breathe again.

Manchester Wheelers

Comments

  • I'm not convinced being certified (?) is a good way to earning more money in IT.

    Being an MCSE theoretically makes you a Microsoft know-it-all but the amount of MCSE's I come across who don't know what a MAC address is or how to work out IP addresses from binary astounds me and proves having the letters doesn't mean you have the knowledge.
  • vermooten
    vermooten Posts: 2,697
    The adverts certainly show that MCSE gives you a £10-£15k increase in salary. I guess idiots can pass exams too. Ultimately you have to be interested in your job to be good at it.
    You just have to ride like you never have to breathe again.

    Manchester Wheelers
  • The big problem with the MCSE is that you can braindump pretty much all the exams. Some of the other MS exams are harder to do this for so those ualifications carry more respect IME. I worked in IT training and have seen the MCSE bootcamps where guys go in Monday morning knowing very little about IT in general (like MAC addresses) then 2 weeks late come out as MSCEs for Windows 2000. They're just shown how to pass the exams and basic networking.

    As a result of this MCSEs don't earn anything like they used to before this sort of thing went on. Experience easily counts as much if no more IMO.

    Don't know about the Java qualifications, if qualifications put your management at ease it probably says more about them than the quality of your developers.
  • im a mcse, i cant see people passing it without a genuine interest, especially in those bootcamps. as for putting management at ease, its tangible evidence that you know what your doing. i would never trust someone who cant prove theyre worth.
  • cee
    cee Posts: 4,553
    I don't think you can compare the java cert with the mcse.

    mcse is a systems engineer....very broad and as folks have said, can be passed with braindumps and learngin the exam content.

    look at some of the new Microsoft Certified Solutions Developer/Architect cert and they are more comparable.

    I also agree that these quals do not necessarily mean more cash. they may make a difference to get you to interview, but after that, experience, personal fit etc will make the difference. OK, I work for a MS Gold Partner, and 90% of us are at least MCSD/MCSE qualified, and generally we gain further cert and qual at least once every 6 months. I would not expect to get a raise based on that, as I have learned the skills whilst on the job. That for me is the return.

    When I move to my next post, I may use the cert to try to push my salary up, or if I decide to go contracting, It might give me an advantage over other candidates. But literally addng £££ to a salary. I don't think it does.

    However.....I know folks with java cert who are good and those who are not. they both have the same cert though. equally, I know mcse who are good and bad....again, both with same cert.

    As for proving worth, my experience and portfolio of work is worth far more than a slip of paper that says I passed a vocational qualification, which I can sit as many times as I like.

    Managment should know pretty quickly after employing someone whether or not they are the real deal. If I have been in a job for more than a year....I would not be bothered about proving myself to managment with an exam. I do it every day in my work.
    Whenever I see an adult on a bicycle, I believe in the future of the human race.

    H.G. Wells.
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    I used to work for a consultancy house who provided techies for small jobs and projects.

    The other problem you may have about convincing your seniors that training/assessment is needed is that once they have more qualifications they are more employable, so the guys may also start to look elsewhere...... the grass being greener and all that (even if the pay may not be).
  • JGS
    JGS Posts: 180
    If you are increasing their knowledge then they would be able to turn around and put a case to the business that they have improved themselves and therefore should command a higher salary.

    In reality though these exams are usually just a way of making sure you can get a foot in the door for interviews. They do represent a genuine achievement for a Java developer, but I wouldn't worry too much about them wanting more. If they already have the skill and potential to command a higher salary, a certificate isn't going to make much of a difference.

    I know from personal experience being MCAD, MCTS and MCA certified that it does help to have these certificates, but I do know people with similar qualifications to me who still suprise me that they can even tie their shoes in the morning.

    The worst case scenario for you is that your bosses demand the qualifications, your team become certified and more confident, you pay a bit extra for more effcient staff (assuming they learn something from the process). If anyone complains about having to pay them extra then you can just blame the management for demanding they all got certified in the first place?