any estate agents on here?

flattythehurdler

We are thinking of upgrading our house to something that will fit two kids etc (ie moving). My wife has fallen in love with a very expensive one which is currently 15% less than the original asking price. The vendor (a property consortium) are refusing to lower the price even though we are not necessarily in a chain. Is it a bad idea to move now? Most people seem to think we should sit tight for now, and whilst we could theoretically make the repayments, it is an AWFUL lot of money. Neutral advice would be gratefully accepted.
PS I love where we live now.
PPS I am wracked with Catholic guilt about buying the expensive one.

richa

How much more expensive is it than your current property?

flattythehurdler

A lot. I don't want to wind anyone up with figures. It is not in the seven figure bracket I assure you, but is more than twice our current house. It is stressful enough to be upsetting, which, i realise is a stupid, middle class, selfish worry, but that is how it is. It is keeping me awake.

STEFANOS4784

Sell the lot, buy a flat, sit out the market slump, buy shiny new expensive house then you're quids in

flattythehurdler

This is a possibility as we have had a good offer on our house. Rent is the other option but the hassle factor would make this really something I would rather avoid with a toddler and a new baby (and a wife who won't). I should never have let her look at this place. She says that she wishes she hadn't seen it now. My brother, one of the most decent people alive has just lost his job and I am feeling gloomy.

Special K

Forget the "original asking price" and the supposed discount. These are red herrings and will be no consolation to you when the house is in negative equity and you are struggling with the mortgage payments.
Unless you are buying with no mortgage, the future may be not be comfortable and without regret, to say the least. Can you make the repayments if BoE rates go above 9%?

My experience tells me

1) Don't trust estate agents, they do not share your interests. :roll:
2) Don't trust other buyers/sellers (because the law does not protect you from the worst behaviour unless you are in Scotland)
3) Being impatient costs money. This includes "missing out" on the "dream house". We have missed out on a number of these mirage properties - and we are still married and happy.
4) Be ruthless and unequivocal on the deal you cut when you commit to a mortgage. Remember for every pound you spend on a mortgaged property will likely cost you £2.50 during the life of the loan.
5) Don't speculate on the unproven, and theoretical value of the pile of bricks you and your family live in.

Good luck.

RockyHopperShow

I don't envy you. I can't think of anything (except probably healthwise) as stressful as moving house. If it was me I'd be reading up on everything and then go down the auction route to bag a relative bargain. I put most of the blame for all the problems in the housemarket firmly at the door of unscrupulous, greedy and unregulated Estate Agents. Steer well clear and save their fees alone!
As Special K says, don't trust anyone but yourselves and most of all try to enjoy as much as you can of what may be a trying experience.

richa

What is the huge hassle factor of renting? Would you still view it as hassle if you were say £40-80k bvetter off as a result of renting for a year?

Some analysts predict a 10-15% fall still to come. So, say;

Old House @ £400k, New House @ £800k, Rental House (equivalent to a £600k)

3 options.
Stay
0% => evens
-10% => £40k down

Move & Rent
0% => evens
-10% => £40k up on staying. £80k up on buying.
NB Slight increase in monthly costs.

Buy
0% => evens
-10% => £80k down
NB Large increase in monthly costs.

I think, in the next 18months, a further fall is likely, flat market a possibility and a rise is unlikely. On this basis the rent option appears to make much sense.[/b]

Special K

RichA has a point you know.

Factor in the costs of running the maintenance on a house, and it starts to look very attractive, especially as he points out, you can often get a much better property for the rent vs. monthly mortgage. (which should also tell you something about house prices...)

We brought our firstborn home to a rented place. Whilst this was not the romantic ideal, the pressure was off us to worry about leaky roof, burst pipes two days before Christmas, broken washing machine, etc etc.

flattythehurdler

I actually really like the agents. The house is brand new ina conservation area, and as such, is unlikely to be available again. Some people though are talking a 40% fall from peak. Is this really likely does anyone know? The house is a good house on a good street in a good area fwiw. Where we are at the moment isn't but I know we'll never be happier than where we are now. There has never been a day that I haven't looked forward to going home, but we have no garden at all, and my wife wants one for the young ones. It sounds so bad when you see what's happening to other people , but we all have our own stresses I suppose. at the moment, I can't wait to get on the bike as I only have imminent death and scrotes to worry about.

richa

flattythehurdler wrote:

The house is brand new ina conservation area, and as such, is unlikely to be available again.
Some people though are talking a 40% fall from peak.
Is this really likely does anyone know? The house is a good house on a good street in a good area fwiw.

- This house might not be available. But if you had an extra, say, £80k you might be looking at even nicer properties?
- How would you feel if the market dropped just 20%? Say from £800k to £640k?
- Almost all properties are affected in a market drop, in the same way as almost all properties have increased in value of the last 15yrs.

Finally, if you are unsure about moving UP, I would not suggest now is a great time to be sticking your neck out (credit crunch, recession?).

The above points are financial arguments, there is a counter 'life' argument that you are buying a hope that will make you happy and if you can afford the monthly payments (regardless of whether it makes the best financial sense) then go for it.

STEFANOS4784

No-body can say for sure how much they will drop, but i get the feeling that the more people go on about massive drops the less inclined people are going to be to buy thus worstening the market further, probably best to keep an eye on what happens in the states as that seems to have a knock-on effect :idea: :? :shock:

Special K

I actually really like the agents.

And I hear that when he dined with the Queen many years ago, Mugabe was quite the charmer.

The house is brand new ina conservation area, and as such, is unlikely to be available again

Not necessarily true. Be patient and you'll get not just the ideal house in the ideal area, but the ideal conditions too. Sounds like the potential stress is eating you up: don't believe the hype.

There has never been a day that I haven't looked forward to going home, but we have no garden at all, and my wife wants one for the young ones.

For the amount of money you could save by waiting it out, or selling and then renting, the young ones could be limo driven to the park every day. This si silly I know, but there are ways of improving the quality of your life without being held over a barrel financially. Maybe the kids don't have a garden, but if you rent, maybe make a pact with the wife to take an extra holiday, or weekend trips or whatever floats the family boat.

I know life is too short to wait for everything to be in alignment. But then sacrificing your sense of security for the sake of more bricks and mortar sounds crazy to me, especially in the current climate. Insecurity for security? Who pays the price? Stressed out daddy?

Do yourself a favour and trust your instincts.

flattythehurdler

Thanks very much. I think you are right. Mugabe, well words fail me. Darlingest one won't be happy, but I'll be less stressed that's for sure.

Clever Pun

the 'slump' is entirely dependent on where you live

The only problem you'll have with moving is finding someone to buy your place Mortgages aren't as easy to get at present and consumer confidence is low

gabriel959

If they are not interested in dropping the price at least a further 10%-15% I wouldn't touch it, simple as that.

gavintc

The age old principle of investing is buy low, sell high. So, if you are planning to upgrade, now is the time to do it as the differential between your current house and the new house wlll be lower. Waiting for the market to turn will ensure you get more for your current house, but a 5% increase will make the gap bigger.

richa

gavintc wrote:

The age old principle of investing is buy low, sell high. So, if you are planning to upgrade, now is the time to do it as the differential between your current house and the new house wlll be lower. Waiting for the market to turn will ensure you get more for your current house, but a 5% increase will make the gap bigger.

Unless the market srtill has another 10-15% to drop...

Jez mon

As others have said, estate agents are a slightly dodgy bunch, you just have to remember that they are looking after their own interests and as the market is going through a downturn, they are going to be even more unscrupulous than usual!

Furthermore, you don't sound too enamoured by the current property, for sure, your wife does and you want to keep her happy! But at the end of the day, financial security and standard of living are more important than having a fancy house. Also, bear in mind that inflation is rising at a considerable rate (especially if you don't count the price flat screen TVs etc!).

Overall, I really wouldn't recommend moving house (especially moving up the ladder as far as you seem to be) unless you really needed to. But whatever decisions you make, I hope it all goes well for you and your family.

mathi

Stuff buying expensive houses , house prices rise and fall .
My advive is to buy land instead , Land prices just keep going up and up 8)

meenaghman

Hey Flatty beware of the increased maintenance costs on a bigger property
look at whats been done in terms of insulation / double glazing / boiler / rads (underfloor is more efficient) and also rem rates/council tax will be higher. These are items to factor into any cost, and they can be significant especially with young children as heating and washing machine on the go more. But you can use these to clobber a bit more off the price.
is there solar heating ? is there a water meter ? what sort of insulation ? how thick.. always quote "thats the bare minimum isn't it.. I hear you need double that as it settles over time. Ask about the block/brick construction. Is there sound insulation between wooden floors ? (big rooms/houses make more noise .. I know) Are there zones on the rads, have they thermostatic valves ? is it triple or double glazing ? What sort of lighting ? There's lots of things to consider if its a big house (over 4 beds).
Stick it out. You're in the driving seat.. Remember although the estate agent you're buying from is working to commission, his 2% of even 10000 wont make it worth his while losing a sale, so every penny you get off the asking price means you're quids in. The only other thing I would worry about is the chain and gazundering. It happened to us even in a good market.. last minute and our buyers lowered their offer by 10K.
I wish you all the luck if you do decide with the move..its not something I'd like to go through again, I'm heading out of my current pile feet first in a wooden box !

dbb

Do yourself a favour and trust your instincts.

this is the best advice in this whole thread

robbarker

any estate agents on here?

Try Beachy Head.

It seems to me the best thing to do at present is to take advantage of the new change to planning law and extetnd your 10 feet out the back and convert your loft.

If you're good with your hands and confident with muck, timber, blocks and tiles it will cost you about the same as moving and add a lot of value to your house once things start moving again.

Gotte

We were in the process of moving up from a £150000 to a £230000 house, but I did a lot of research, and much as a lot of it is guesswork and hunches, we decided to call it off and stay put. If this recession follows the same path as the last, which was not a particularly bad recession compared with how bad this one could be, should American finances unravell, houseprices won't recover to the level they are at now for about a decade. You stand a real good chance of being in negative eqity for a long time.
The future really does look pretty bad at the moment with unemployment rising, inflation much higher that the 2 percent allowed by the government, and with a real clampdown in lending. having interest rates go up could hurt. Losing your job could hurt even more.
Of course, the interesting one to watch at the moment is AIG. In my book if that goes down, we should all start praying.