Brand Loyalty

biondino

Meh. I already know that the Campag apologists are all pretentious style-over-substance wannabes, I'm sure I'm not going to be surprised

Littigator

Hear hear...who wants Italian 'style' when what you need is reliable content!

Dura Ace gets me hard every time....grrrrrrr

what? :shock:

pst88

I don't really have a brand loyalty, as you'd notice from the mish-mash of various parts on my bike/person if you saw me. I happily wear my Campagnolo retro jersey whilst riding a bike equipped with a mix of Shimano, SRAM and Tektro etc. I just buy whatever I fancy at the time, no brand loyality in mind.

Surf-Matt

I used to be very brand loyal - Car had to be VW, clothes had to be Rip Curl/Billabing (before they went mainstream), phone had to be Nokia, etc, etc.

Then I had to sell a nice VW (Golf R32) and tested some lesser models (car had to be sold because it became a huge thief magnet) - they were terrible! So tried some Fords and Vauxhalls as well as others - the Fords and Vauxhalls were head and shoulders above the Audis, Hondas and VWs I tried! Handled much better, went faster, better made, etc. Ended up with a mk5 Astra Estate 150bhp diesel - faster than the Audi/VW competition, better made, fresher looking, better specced, much better handling and over £4k cheaper!!

So since then, I've tended to try everything before I buy, often with pleasant suprises (one being SE phones seem MUCH better than Nokia!).

So although I like Specialized bikes, I'll happily look at everything else when buying stuff. You end up with better stuff for less money more often than not.

il_principe

biondino wrote:

LOADS of Condors in central London - probably only outnumbered by Specialized and (ugh) Ridgeback. Very very few top end ones, though.

I have really disliked Campag the few times I've ridden bikes with it. Nasty, uncomfortable hoods, cheap-feeling levers, odd button placement, prehistoric gear-changing, with the indexing completely buggered (not necessarily campag's fault but the sheer scale of the problem was noticeable.

My Dura-Ace shifters and derailleur, on the other hand, are as smooth as a pint of Guinness. Mmm.

Nope - can't let you get away with this one! I suspect you just didn't know how to use Campag kit. Unlike Shimano - Campag allows you to "dump" gears -ie drop more than one at a time, this is regulated by how far you push the button and takes some getting used to especially if you have only ever used Shimano's system.

biondino

I dunno, if I for some reason want to go up 4 gears at a time (why would I?) I can press the lever 4 times in a second. That'll do me. I can already go down by 3 (I think?) sprockets at a time.

Littigator

Exactly, and it also means you never over or under shift by taking a dump too far

Besides, who the Hell wants to associate with bike parts that take a dump...how uncivilised

il_principe

biondino wrote:

I dunno, if I for some reason want to go up 4 gears at a time (why would I?) I can press the lever 4 times in a second. That'll do me. I can already go down by 3 (I think?) sprockets at a time.

Useful when sprinting I find.

Clever Pun

Littigator wrote:

Hear hear...who wants Italian 'style' when what you need is reliable content!

Dura Ace gets me hard every time....grrrrrrr

what? :shock:

Volvo vs Ferrari?

jedster

Volvo vs Ferrari?

more like Toyota vs Alfa!

What does that make SRAM - Audi?

alfablue

aahh, Alfa

UnworthyPapaLazaru

I may have to re-evaluate my opinion of Specialized (dont hate them, just dont love them). Was in the bike shop today and the 2009 Spesh Allez 18 in black is a lovely looking bike!

NorwegianBlue

Blind brand loyalty is a very bad thing.

I know it's not about bikes, but the analogy holds true. I used to work with a guy who maintained that Ford made the best cars in the world, bar none. He was on his twelfth Ford when I met him and had never owned anything else, the only other brand he has driven was an Opel hire car on holiday.

I finally convinced him to take a Toyota Corolla for a test drive - we had a choice of Ford or Toyota as company cars. He came back very confused. He had a MkIV Escort at the time and came back very confused. He'd spent thirty odd years since he was a child (his father only owned Fords too) believing Ford to be the pinacle of automotive engineering and he'd just driven something that made his pride and joy feel like an agricultural machine.

It's the same with bikes I have friend who has only ridden Trek since he started riding ten years ago and maintains they are the finest bikes in the world. Every new bike (I think he's on his fifth) is better than the last, and it would be since it cost more. So as far as he's concerned Trek are the best. If your last bike was the best bike in the world and your new one is better then it stands to reason that the new one must be the best in the world. I've nothing against Trek, damn fine bikes, but I simply couldn't see myself displaying that kind of brand loyalty.

You buy with your heart as well as your head, but even your gut instinct (to mix metaphors for a moment) must be swayed sometimes by a magazine review. Having said that my mate saw a group test where the Trek didn't come out on top and he dismissed the whole thing as utter crap, even though he'd never ridden any of the bikes in the test, or indeed any road bikes at all (he's an MTBer).

UnworthyPapaLazaru

As well as the brand loyalty angle, and yes blindly following a brand is not good, I was kind of thinking of brand association. As I said Cannondale = quality for me. I know the company has changed hands a few times recently and has had some turmoil and board room level but the association I have is hard to shake. I suppose with Spesh, i know they are great bikes because I had one, but as I see so many of them I guess I just think 'mass produced' and all the connotations associated with that. But that Allez I saw today could change all that...

NorwegianBlue

There is another factor.

Bikes tend to be designed in a particular size, and then compromized - sorry, modified - to make other sizes. The designer will tend to have the bikes made up in his or her size and test and tweak them until they are perfect for them. The production engineers will then take the original bike and tweek the dimensions to make other sizes while trying to keep the same dynamics. However, try as they might the different sizes must ride differently. As such bikes will tend to work best in the size they were designed. A bike originally designed around, say, a 56cm effective top tube will handle better in that size than a 52cm or 60cm size, but a bike originally designed in a 60cm will handle best in that size.

Therefore, if the head designer of a particular brand is a similar size to you you may well think their bikes are perfect. On the other hand a brand you're not so happy with may have a head designed who differs from you significantly in size.

So you may find brand A perfect while your taller mate may think they ride poorly
when compared to brand B. And you'd both be right.

In this case brand loyalty makes some sense, however it still shouldn't preclude trying other brands. Nor will it hold true for all that brand's bikes, some may have been designed by other people. And things can change markedly when designers move from one brand to another.

dafruk

NorwegianBlue wrote:

Therefore, if the head designer of a particular brand is a similar size to you you may well think their bikes are perfect. On the other hand a brand you're not so happy with may have a head designed who differs from you significantly in size.
.

Does anyone know any bike designers who are around 5'9-10" with 31" legs?

Clever Pun

NB well said, it even works with clothes one companies Large is anothers XXXL. A lot of it comes down to what fits you

I'd quite like a rock racing top but since it's designed for pigeon chested tiny people I'll never even bother trying them on (that's before trying to justify price

UnworthyPapaLazaru

Clever Pun wrote:

NB well said, it even works with clothes one companies Large is anothers XXXL. A lot of it comes down to what fits you

I'd quite like a rock racing top but since it's designed for pigeon chested tiny people I'll never even bother trying them on (that's before trying to justify price

They are stupidly expensive, but it sounds like it might fit me....!

biondino

Clever Pun wrote:

I'd quite like a rock racing top

Clever Pun, if you like I'll buy a t-shirt from M&S and draw a skull, a dagger and "I Take Performance-Enhancing Drugs" on it - yours for a fiver

It occurred to me I have been brand loyal to Nokia for a decade. I had a Motorola phone for work some years ago and it was hands down THE shabbiest, worst-performing bit of kit I've ever owned. I also used to hate my exes series of Ericssons. I have a blackberry now but that's for emails only. Having said all that, I suspect next time I might have to branch out - though my hope is that in 18 months iPhones will work perfectly, have bigger storage, and be cheaper, in which case I'm probably sorted!

UnworthyPapaLazaru

I'll have one and can you put '& recreational' on it too?

:shock:

Clever Pun

biondino wrote:

Clever Pun wrote:

I'd quite like a rock racing top

Clever Pun, if you like I'll buy a t-shirt from M&S and draw a skull, a dagger and "I Take Performance-Enhancing Drugs" on it - yours for a fiver

It occurred to me I have been brand loyal to Nokia for a decade. I had a Motorola phone for work some years ago and it was hands down THE shabbiest, worst-performing bit of kit I've ever owned. I also used to hate my exes series of Ericssons. I have a blackberry now but that's for emails only. Having said all that, I suspect next time I might have to branch out - though my hope is that in 18 months iPhones will work perfectly, have bigger storage, and be cheaper, in which case I'm probably sorted!

shouldn't that be "I've taken"

plus there's no way on earth I'd wear anything from marks and spencers...

I'm a guy who went out and bought expensive kecks and socks to avoid cr@ppy presents as I made it clear I'd only wear those brands so unless it's approved I'd put them straight in the bin... it's worked to.

biondino

I was thinking of asking for Rapha vouchers for Xmas, actually, but even with vouchers I just can't get over how much they charge.

Clever Pun

biondino wrote:

I was thinking of asking for Rapha vouchers for Xmas, actually, but even with vouchers I just can't get over how much they charge.

true... just look at how much you persoanlly have spent...

maybe condor vouchers instead? or actual rapha website ones...

maybe just ask for a bidon then?