RLJers (ding ding Round 1)

Littigator

So here's the opinion of one cyclist on the subject.

http://www.bikeradar.com/blogs/article/ ... ping-18163

and whilst I agree with his frustration at those that partake in this pompous practice...I'm not entirely sure I'd follow him as far as this...

"Sadly, most cyclists are quite narcissistic, somehow believing the world evolves [sic] around them."

There is no WAY I'm narcissistic...I simply look fantastic in lycra. I mean who wouldn't with thighs and glutes as good as mine. Quite frankly, I'm surprised drivers don't stop and just let me through at red lights, gazing in wonderment at my smooth sculpted calfs sigh

Aaaaaaanyway, back on topic, whether you think it's safe or not it gives cyclists generally a really bad name, that and pavement jumping have got to be the number 1 moans about cyclists so, if for no other reason, let's quit it to give moaners, bigots and whingers less ammunition.

Most RLJers as SCR posters will agree, are the slow ones that you just have to overtake (again) 200 yards down the road anyway...Muppets!

dafruk

Littigator wrote:

Most RLJers as SCR posters will agree, are the slow ones that you just have to overtake (again) 200 yards down the road anyway...Muppets!

Agreed, they jump lights, you rip them a new one on the road, hit another set of lights and they push past and jump again only for you to rip them another new one on the road again. Had a pair of guys doing this to me yesterday, one of them clicked after 3 sets of lights and sat behind me and waited (admittedly only cos he was trying to catch my wheel, as if) t'other one kept on jumping and getting made to look silly.

BUICK

For the most part I think that to RLJ is a bit of unnecessary risk-taking when it's dangerous enough on the roads - but then, I'm guessing that most cyclists that do it know there is potential risk so will look carefully before scooting through? On some rare occasions I have RLJ'd because it genuinely seemed like the safest option. For example: about a week ago, I approached a difficult intersection at which a cycle lane abandons you on the inside left of two other lanes of traffic on a bend, and to go where I need to go I have to get into the right hand lane just around the bend before another set of lights. In rush hour this intersection is pretty lethal. Cars tend to race between the two sets of lights in the hope of getting through. On one day in particular I had a guy in a van to my immediate right toe the nose of his van in in such a way that when he accelerated away from the line he would intersect my path on the bike (and there are railings to the left so nowhere to go) - I tried to get his attention because it seemed like he was ignoring that I was there but he resolutely stared straight ahead - so, knowing the system there, I waited until I knew that the through traffic was being stopped and checked the way was clear, checked the other way in case of suicidal pedestrians, then launched into an almighty sprint a second ahead of the lights changing to green, to get ahead of the traffic and avoid being cut off or even knocked off. This manouevre was carried out safely and without incident - until the said van driver pulled along side at the next lights and told me off for jumping the red! We all see drivers charge headlong through a light that's already gone red using the logic that if they go fast enough then they're 'committed' and it's better to go through - and that's what makes RLJing potentially dangerous for cyclists I think - the fact that cars do it too.

cjcp

Littigator wrote:

So here's the opinion of one cyclist on the subject.

http://www.bikeradar.com/blogs/article/ ... ping-18163

and whilst I agree with his frustration at those that partake in this pompous practice...I'm not entirely sure I'd follow him as far as this...

"Sadly, most cyclists are quite narcissistic, somehow believing the world evolves [sic] around them."

There is no WAY I'm narcissistic...I simply look fantastic in lycra. I mean who wouldn't with thighs and glutes as good as mine. Quite frankly, I'm surprised drivers don't stop and just let me through at red lights, gazing in wonderment at my smooth sculpted calfs sigh

Aaaaaaanyway, back on topic, whether you think it's safe or not it gives cyclists generally a really bad name, that and pavement jumping have got to be the number 1 moans about cyclists so, if for no other reason, let's quit it to give moaners, bigots and whingers less ammunition.

Most RLJers as SCR posters will agree, are the slow ones that you just have to overtake (again) 200 yards down the road anyway...Muppets!

Littigator - your poll options don't take into account our conversation on the way home the other night when I said they should have their bikes crushed and you said something along the lines of a big hand from the heavens coming down and walloping them into the river.

dondare

First offence - pay a fine. Second offence - lose the bike.

Equivalent penalty for motorists who jump lights. And speed. And use the mobile phone. &c. &c.

Mystery Shopper

http://www.bikeradar.com/blogs/article/ ... ping-18163

Too many kittens in the world anyway.

lost_in_thought

I think it's not 100% cut and dried, black and white yes or no...

*ducks*

Littigator

Yep BUICK, I agree that in some circumstances, like you outline, it might be the safest option. My rant was really aimed at the serial jumpers who are simply a pain in the ass, as CJCP mentioned, they should either have their bikes crushed or the hand of God fall from the sky and swat them into the river

WHUPAH!

AAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

splosh

lost_in_thought

Yeah, the pootlers who pootle along pretty much regardless of the world around them... ah bless their little hearts... I get them on the uxbridge road. They're often men who cycle in a bizarre bow-legged manner. Anyone else see that? But yes, every time I stop for a light, count to ten and there they are pootling through it.

If I'm at a big scary intersection, for example at the western end of the Barbican tunnel or the Holborn circus or shebu roundabout, I will try to get ahead of the angry truck drivers by going to the point where legally I've jumped the light but practically I'm not interrupting the flow of traffic. My theory is that if I'm there then the people waiting behind me have seen me.

I was met at that not-strictly-legal point by a bike bobby t'other day and thought 'ah bums, a fine for me', but unexpectedly he told me that what I was doing was a good plan!

Hand of god for me? Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaghsplash?

Parkey

There's definately a huge distinction between the two categories of RLJ cyclists. RLJ-A and RLJ-B.

Category A) The oblivious to the world type. Centre of their own universe. Roll straight through regardless.

Category Cross the line or pre-empt the lights, but don't cross the junction until it's their lane's turn - sort of.

I personally don't cross the line when the light is red, because that's the rule. I don't see any need to either. Why is there this imperative to get right to the front at every set of lights? If it's a short queue I take primary and wait my turn with all the other traffic. If it's a long queue I filter up and wait between the 1st and 2nd vehicles. If there's a bus or lorry in a difficult position, wait behind.

_Brun_

lost_in_thought wrote:

I think it's not 100% cut and dried, black and white yes or no...

From a safety point of view that's exactly my argument (yes I know the law is rather less ambiguous, but it is on a lot of things that people turn a blind eye to). Attempting to cross Euston Road under a red would be often be suicidal, but turning left into a clear one way street involves almost no risk whatsoever.

Jumping red lights is only dangerous if you're careless or stupid.

(That'll be me under the 134 bus that suddenly appeared out of thin air, as they are prone to doing)

Kushtrim

Personally I don't see what all the fuss is about. I can't imagine that anybody would break a red light if they are going to end up right in the middle of traffic or run somebody over. Most cyclist who "RLJ", including me, do it when there is no danger of running somebody over, crashing in to a car or being run over themselves. I really don't see the point of waiting at a red light when there is no traffic or pedestrians crossing your path.

I don't this it's a cocky thing to do, it's just something you do to keep moving and not stop every 2 minutes for no reason at red lights (in central London especially).

Littigator

Kushtrim wrote:

Personally I don't see what all the fuss is about. I can't imagine that anybody would break a red light if they are going to end up right in the middle of traffic or run somebody over. Most cyclist who "RLJ", including me, do it when there is no danger of running somebody over, crashing in to a car or being run over themselves. I really don't see the point of waiting at a red light when there is no traffic or pedestrians crossing your path.

I don't this it's a cocky thing to do, it's just something you do to keep moving and not stop every 2 minutes for no reason at red lights (in central London especially).

So on your logic, is it acceptable for say...scooters to do it? How about motorbikes? Perhaps cars...so long as the junction is clear than a red light is only an advisory stop is it?

Sorry, but if we want to be treated equally as road users and not abused by everyone else on the roads then we have to stick to the rules.

As I said, notwithstanding the safety issue cyclists get some seriously negative press and RLJing is one of the top moans. I don't give a monkeys if you want to risk your safety but it really winds me up that cyclists get so much grief and by jumping red lights you are giving me and all other cyslists bad press and adding fuel to the Daily Mail moaning muppets

Coriander

Littigator wrote:

Kushtrim wrote:

Personally I don't see what all the fuss is about. I can't imagine that anybody would break a red light if they are going to end up right in the middle of traffic or run somebody over. Most cyclist who "RLJ", including me, do it when there is no danger of running somebody over, crashing in to a car or being run over themselves. I really don't see the point of waiting at a red light when there is no traffic or pedestrians crossing your path.

I don't this it's a cocky thing to do, it's just something you do to keep moving and not stop every 2 minutes for no reason at red lights (in central London especially).

So on your logic, is it acceptable for say...scooters to do it? How about motorbikes? Perhaps cars...so long as the junction is clear than a red light is only an advisory stop is it?

Sorry, but if we want to be treated equally as road users and not abused by everyone else on the roads then we have to stick to the rules.

As I said, notwithstanding the safety issue cyclists get some seriously negative press and RLJing is one of the top moans. I don't give a monkeys if you want to risk your safety but it really winds me up that cyclists get so much grief and by jumping red lights you are giving me and all other cyslists bad press and adding fuel to the Daily Mail moaning muppets

I completely agree with you Litts. I feel quite strongly about this because I do believe there is an indirect risk to me from other's RLJing: as car drivers get angrier with, and have even less respect for, cyclists because of RLJing, their driving will reflect this and that can only be dangerous for us.

Kushtrim

I would say that it's not safe for motorcyclist or moped riders to do the same because they have a much greater chance of hurting someone. They are faster and much heavier then a bike and I would argue that their stopping distance and control is less than that of a cyclist.

Its one thing to add fuel to the Daily Mail readers it's another to agree with their argument hook, line and sinker.

il_principe

Kushtrim wrote:

Personally I don't see what all the fuss is about. I can't imagine that anybody would break a red light if they are going to end up right in the middle of traffic or run somebody over. Most cyclist who "RLJ", including me, do it when there is no danger of running somebody over, crashing in to a car or being run over themselves. I really don't see the point of waiting at a red light when there is no traffic or pedestrians crossing your path.

I don't this it's a cocky thing to do, it's just something you do to keep moving and not stop every 2 minutes for no reason at red lights (in central London especially).

I'm sorry but how do you know that there is no danger? Never heard of SMIDSY?

What's wrong with having to stop every now and again, the world won't end if your journey takes a few mins longer, and it's still quicker than pretty much any other alternative in London. You risk yourself, others and the reputation of cyclists in general for the sake of saving a few paltry minutes...

saveswalking

Kushtrim wrote:

I would say that it's not safe for motorcyclist or moped riders to do the same because they have a much greater chance of hurting someone. They are faster and much heavier then a bike and I would argue that their stopping distance and control is less than that of a cyclist.

Its one thing to add fuel to the Daily Mail readers it's another to agree with their argument hook, line and sinker.[/quote]

^^^+1

RLJ when safe to do so - just like crossing the road

sw

boybiker

I don't know why people bothering arguing about it, people who jump red lights clearly think that the world revolves round them and its vital that they are not delayed by 30 seconds, you are never going to stop them behaving like twats until they get squished.
Not all cyclists are wondrous people some are so far up their own arses itsjust not true.

Kushtrim

boybiker wrote:

I don't know why people bothering arguing about it, people who jump red lights clearly think that the world revolves round them and its vital that they are not delayed by 30 seconds, you are never going to stop them behaving like twats until they get squished.
Not all cyclists are wondrous people some are so far up their own arses itsjust not true.

It's funny you should say that because that's exactly what I think. If you can't have a proper argument stay out of it will you.

attica

Kushtrim

I suggest you get a copy of the highway code - read and digest.

learn some frickin patience

Simon the Pieman

I had a great one the other week. It went as follows:-

1. Stop at red light at pedestrian crossing.

2. ped gets halfway across the crossing and stops as she sees someone hurtling towards her.

3. RLJ undertakes me hitting me on the arm and pelts through the crossing with the sounds of my abuse ringing in his ears.

4. I catch up to the fella (I am no speedy boy so it does add to the argument that you dont save time) and give him a peace of my mind. I am not hurt so dont push it too much.

cjcp

Simon the Pieman wrote:

I had a great one the other week. It went as follows:-

1. Stop at red light at pedestrian crossing.

2. ped gets halfway across the crossing and stops as she sees someone hurtling towards her.

3. RLJ undertakes me hitting me on the arm and pelts through the crossing with the sounds of my abuse ringing in his ears.

4. I catch up to the fella (I am no speedy boy so it does add to the argument that you dont save time) and give him a peace of my mind. I am not hurt so dont push it too much.

Where is that Almighty Hand when you need it?

lost_in_thought

Littigator wrote:

So on your logic, is it acceptable for say...scooters to do it? How about motorbikes? Perhaps cars...so long as the junction is clear than a red light is only an advisory stop is it?

Interestingly, not wanting to throw fat on the fire here, but if you go to Canberra or the other bit of the ACT in Australia, all traffic is allowed to turn left against a red light with caution.

It actually works pretty well. If you turn left and cause an accident, however, you're automatically in the wrong, for obvious reasons!

I seem to recall that this was suggested as a new rule just for cyclists by the new Mayor, but I could well be wrong there.

gtvlusso

Personally - I don't stop unless it is an unknown junction or a cross roads. Otherwise, good look about and go through - but I have an easy commute and stick to back roads - nothing scary on my route and not much traffic. To be honest, I have done the same as a motocyclist and ride my bicycle like a motorbike (without the 180 BHP!). Filter down the middle and go like a nutter off the lights - simple philosphy.

I feel confident and safe as I have done this for 16 or so years without too much trouble, do allot of miles each week (around 300 to 350) without weekend rides and I race/do triathlon when I don't have to paint the kitchen.....

Thing that really pisses me off is the git's that decides to queue jump the cycle queue at a set of lights, but has actually been overtaken several times by everyone in the queue - particulalry the bespectacled git on my commute, I will punch him out if he does it again and I end up overtaking him straight away - I keep heckling him, but it simply is not getting through.

Apollo748

lost_in_thought wrote:

Interestingly, not wanting to throw fat on the fire here, but if you go to Canberra or the other bit of the ACT in Australia, all traffic is allowed to turn left against a red light with caution.

See this makes sense to me. Number of times I've been sat right at the far left wanting to do a left turn, there's bugger all traffic and the difference between where I'm sat and where I want to be being a few feet of empty space.

Coriander

lost_in_thought wrote:

Interestingly, not wanting to throw fat on the fire here, but if you go to Canberra or the other bit of the ACT in Australia, all traffic is allowed to turn left against a red light with caution.

In California as well you can turn right on a red light if the road is clear.

Littigator

gtvlusso wrote:

Thing that really pisses me off is the git's that decides to queue jump the cycle queue at a set of lights, but has actually been overtaken several times by everyone in the queue - particulalry the bespectacled git on my commute, I will punch him out if he does it again and I end up overtaking him straight away - I keep heckling him, but it simply is not getting through.

Ignoring the rest of your post (cos I can't be a*sed to repeat myself), have you tried pulling in front of him then when the lights change make a slow move of pulling off?

Failing that just punch him

lost_in_thought

Coriander wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Interestingly, not wanting to throw fat on the fire here, but if you go to Canberra or the other bit of the ACT in Australia, all traffic is allowed to turn left against a red light with caution.

In California as well you can turn right on a red light if the road is clear.

<me> God, that's really dangerous.. I wouldn't want to....... oh no wait, they drive on the other side of the road there....

DUHHHHHHH :roll:

Parkey

Kushtrim wrote:

Personally I don't see what all the fuss is about. I can't imagine that anybody would break a red light if they are going to end up right in the middle of traffic or run somebody over. Most cyclist who "RLJ", including me, do it when there is no danger of running somebody over, crashing in to a car or being run over themselves. I really don't see the point of waiting at a red light when there is no traffic or pedestrians crossing your path.

I don't this it's a cocky thing to do, it's just something you do to keep moving and not stop every 2 minutes for no reason at red lights (in central London especially).

Interesting what happens if we replace a few words.

"Personally I don't see what all the fuss is about. I can't imagine that anybody would exceed the speed limit in a car if they are going to end up right in the middle of traffic or run somebody over..."

"...Most motorists who use the phone whilst driving, including me, do it when there is no danger of running somebody over, crashing in to a car..."

What it comes down to is the philosophy of "from my point of view this isn't a problem, so it isn't."

I believe most people who follow the rules do so because they're able to appreciate that theirs isn't the only point of view and that their actions affect others, often in completely unforseen ways. Not because they think an arbitrary rule is the perfect solution to every situation.

boybiker

Thing that really pisses me off is the git's that decides to queue jump the cycle queue at a set of lights, but has actually been overtaken several times by everyone in the queue - particulalry the bespectacled git on my commute, I will punch him out if he does it again and I end up overtaking him straight away - I keep heckling him, but it simply is not getting through.


Nice....Nothing like the brotherhood of cycling :roll: to be honest you sound like the kind of cyclist who gives the rest of us a bad name.
I always heckle the twats who jump light somehow it doesn't get through to them either.
Sadly an arsehole on a bike is still an arsehole.

Sewinman

Have to admit to RLJing. I have never really thought about it being wrong. I accept the points being made and will re-evaluate.

However, there are occasions when I think it helps my safety to get a head start, so i coast a few yards through the red light and wait in front of it looking at the lights at the other side of the junction for my cue to go. That way in some cases I can get a 5 yard start on the traffic and get in the right lane. There is a classic example of this on the North side of Vauxhall bridge.

Is this wrong?