Alu Vs Steel, Saracen Zen 3 vs Zen 631?

jairaj
jairaj Posts: 3,009
edited September 2008 in MTB buying advice
Hi guys,

Anyone got a Saracen Zen 631 or point me to some reviews on it? I know the Zen 3 is good as it has a few reviews, but found nothing about the 631.

I want to upgrade to a Zen but not sure which one to go for either Zen 3 or the steel 631???

All the shops near me can order it in, but don't have any for me to try out.

Just because Saracen have designed a good Alu frame doesn't mean they've designed a good Steel frame??? As im sure they require different design techniques due their different properties?

thanks, Jai

Comments

  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    Yes, they will ride different - the steel frame probably being more flexy. Not seen any tests of it, but Steve Worland holds the standard Zen in high regard.
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  • Chaka Ping
    Chaka Ping Posts: 1,451
    I think the Zen 631 looks a very nice bike, but I've never seen one in the flesh - or heard of anybody owning one to get an opinion from.

    Do you prefer steel or alu? Both should be well designed and made frames, so it's really down to if you like steel enough to pay the extra (I would).

    I'll just say you might want to avoid paying much more than £1k for the '08 now - as it's widely available at a discount. Such as from the reputable Rutland Cycling on this ebay auction...

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0288517758
  • scars
    scars Posts: 360
    edited September 2008
    Steel frames have a bit of character to them, i find steel has a degree of flex to it and generally have a different feel, havent had a steely frame in a few years mind.

    but can you really justify spending over a grand on a saracen? Granted its a steely but personally if i had your budget and was on the lookout id get something like a cove stiffee or a SC Chamelion, Something a bit prestigious with a head turning factor

    My pennies worth anyroad :)
    www.ralphies.co.uk
  • Andy B
    Andy B Posts: 8,115
    Saracen's are like Skoda's, great bikes that have won quite a few awards.

    Nothing wrong with most Saracen bikes, it's just the badge (like Skoda) that puts folks off them.
    2385861000_d125abe796_m.jpg
  • scars
    scars Posts: 360
    Ive had a couple of saracens, Mantra was one of my first bikes and loved it. My second one was a 05 havoc and it was awful, the worst designed 4 bar linkage bike ive ever ridden, the shock would bounce off the seat tube as it compressed causing major dentage to it. No longer made near Coventry either... I dont think i'd buy another saracen thats for sure
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  • stubs
    stubs Posts: 5,001
    I have a Zen 3 and they are awesome bikes just what you want for being a loon on. Dont expect it to fly up a long climb but as long as you can keep the cranks turning it will get you to the top. When you are at the top point downwards and hang on its gonna get fast.

    I have had a 15 minute test ride on a 631 zen and it felt the same just a little bit smoother.

    I have great fun on mine overtaking people on 6 inch full suss bikes that cost them over 3 grand and thats half the fun wiping the smile off badge posers. Dont buy a badge buy a bike. :P
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  • Chaka Ping
    Chaka Ping Posts: 1,451
    Well put Stubs.

    How come when someone buys an overpriced Orange bike they're "buying British", but when someone else buys a Saracen they're "buying a Saracen, eurgh".

    Well, you get my point.
  • scars
    scars Posts: 360
    Because Saracens are made in vietnam now...
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  • stubs
    stubs Posts: 5,001
    scars wrote:
    Because Saracens are made in vietnam now...

    Who gives a flying cr*p where its made Taiwan, Vietnam or BongaBongistan they are all welded by robots controlled by a computer.
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  • scars
    scars Posts: 360
    No issue whatsoever where its made, But id rather buy British knowing full well that my money is going back into our Economy.

    And like everything that seems to go over to the far east. Quality almost always suffers, Air Rifles are another example.
    www.ralphies.co.uk
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    The money I save goes back into our economy. The pub: and they need that ;-)
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    VOODOO CANZO

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  • scars
    scars Posts: 360
    Good answer :wink: 1 - 0
    www.ralphies.co.uk
  • stubs
    stubs Posts: 5,001
    As far as I am aware Orange only make the full suss frames in Halifax the hardtails are made in Far East land by a robot
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  • scars
    scars Posts: 360
    Actually thinking about it i heard the same a while ago. Still i guess its like comparing owning a Skoda Octavia and a Audi A4.
    www.ralphies.co.uk
  • jairaj
    jairaj Posts: 3,009
    thanks for the replies guys. Thought we were almost going to get into another orange debate!

    from what stubs was saying, the 631 is only a bit better, so im not sure its worth the extra money? plus as im coming from a 05 hardrock, im gonna be more than overwhelmed at the performance increase of the Zen 3.
  • nesty
    nesty Posts: 100
    I am looking at the Saracen Zen 1. It got good reviews, but it'as as you say built aboard. I would like to buy a British bike!
  • Chaka Ping
    Chaka Ping Posts: 1,451
    Almost all bikes are built abroad nowadays, but Saracen in still a UK company - unlike Trek, Spesh, Marin, GT, Kona etc etc.

    To the original poster - neither the steel or alu frame will be "better" - they're just different.

    Have you ridden a decent steel MTB before?
  • Andy B
    Andy B Posts: 8,115
    nesty wrote:
    I am looking at the Saracen Zen 1. It got good reviews, but it'as as you say built aboard. I would like to buy a British bike!
    Lots of British companies, but buying a frame that's made in the UK can be a little expensive.

    Nowt wrong with 'foreign' frames, I'd guesstimate that 90% of frames are made abroad, even top end bikes costing £000's have 'foreign' frames.
    2385861000_d125abe796_m.jpg
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    Plus facilities in the far east for welding frames are better than we have in the UK!
    GT ZASKAR CARBON TEAM

    VOODOO CANZO

    Come and see me at https://www.facebook.com/biketyke/
  • jairaj
    jairaj Posts: 3,009
    Chaka Ping wrote:
    Almost all bikes are built abroad nowadays, but Saracen in still a UK company - unlike Trek, Spesh, Marin, GT, Kona etc etc.

    To the original poster - neither the steel or alu frame will be "better" - they're just different.

    Have you ridden a decent steel MTB before?

    Hi Chaka Ping,

    Im not really asking which one is better, just is the steel one any good? as I can't find any reviews on it.

    i've had a go on an Orange P7 (i think thats steel) but it was just round a car park, so barely got to test the bike only checked the fitting.
  • Chaka Ping
    Chaka Ping Posts: 1,451
    Nobody on here seems to own one. You might have more luck asking on the STW forum - more members and perhaps more steel bike fans over there.
  • stubs
    stubs Posts: 5,001
    jairaj wrote:
    Chaka Ping wrote:
    Almost all bikes are built abroad nowadays, but Saracen in still a UK company - unlike Trek, Spesh, Marin, GT, Kona etc etc.

    To the original poster - neither the steel or alu frame will be "better" - they're just different.

    Have you ridden a decent steel MTB before?

    Hi Chaka Ping,

    Im not really asking which one is better, just is the steel one any good? as I can't find any reviews on it.

    i've had a go on an Orange P7 (i think thats steel) but it was just round a car park, so barely got to test the bike only checked the fitting.

    The Zen 631 is the same frame geometry as the Zen 3 meaning it will have all the same tube angles and the same handling the only difference is that steel frames can be made to have a bit more give in them its a subjective thing if your used to rock hard alu frames it will feel as if the tyres arent quite pumped up hard enough but you will soon get used to it

    Its a Pepsi versus Coke thing

    I would personally go for the Zen 3 its £250 cheaper and thats a lot of beer :D
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