Zipp 303's

bigal.
bigal. Posts: 479
edited August 2008 in Workshop
Thinking about buying a set of Zipp 303's and was looking for some opinions from current 303 owners in an effort to decide if they are worth it and also to look at possible other options.

The only other wheel that appears to be as good is the Rolf Prima Carbon Tdf38 which I would also like to hear opinions about. The issue with the Rolf Prima for me is that I am not aware of any UK suppliers.???

Both sets of wheels are very light and and have some aero properties which is appealing for both flat and undulating courses. Any thoughts.??

Comments

  • portuguese mike
    portuguese mike Posts: 695
    Rock n road in southampton are dealers for Rolf Prima (02380 221022).

    You don't say whether you're looking at tubs or clinchers but for that sort of money though there are loads of options, including:

    Reynolds MV32 or DV46 (tub or clincher)

    Edge 38mm or 68mm (tub or clincher) built on to whatever hub/spoke combo you want
    http://www.edgecomposites.com/

    Lew VT-1 (280g - the cheaper one) tub only, again handbuilt. http://www.lewracing.com/provt1rims.html

    or strecthing the budget a little either the 250g lew tubular rim or the Lew clincher rim.

    check out http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/ for some custom wheel packages.


    i'm getting a set of carbon rims built on to a powertap hub and am currently trying to decide between the above and zipp 303/404's - it's a nice conunundrum to have :D
    pm
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    I would go for the 404s which are more aero, and only slightly heavier. I also prefer the look of the 404s so i'm slightly biased!

    Some problems with the wheels. Unless you go clincher (Zipp clinchers are heavy pieces of rubbish) you are stuck with tubulars, and it seems to be getting difficult to get nice tubs at reasonable prices, stopping in the rain isn't fantastic plus there is the problem of carbon rims.

    Carbon rims do break, which is unfortunate, Zipp rims especially are known to be slightly on the fragile side.

    I'm just trying to warn you of these things, rather than put you off carbon rims, which I feel are the nicest thing you can do for your bike!!!

    EDIT (just thought of an issue some people have with deep rims) I'm 55kgs and tend to get blown around on generic mid rim alloy wheels (Mavic Cosmos, Ksyeriums R1s can all present some issues in wind) but a few weeks ago I raced on some Zipp 404s at Goodwood in some very, very windy conditions and i felt the handling was fine.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • mrushton
    mrushton Posts: 5,182
    I was thinking about a set of these but I was also looking at the Topolino wheels. Primera sells both these and the Zipps. I'd stay away from carbon rims since I've never seen any advantage in braking. They might be lighter but I'd rather stop.
    M.Rushton
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    Erm, carbon rims are fine for stopping in the dry, and I'd rather not use 1000 quid wheels in the wet anyway
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • JC.152
    JC.152 Posts: 645
    Just seen some on British Cycling's classifieds if people are interested
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    The reason that 303s aren't that popular is that they aren't the stiffest wheels in the world and the relatively shallow rim only provides marginal aero benefit - if spending that amount of money a deeper rim will be stiffer and more aero for a slight weight penalty. Without knowing your intended use, weight and riding style is difficult to make any other recommendations. Problem with the Topolinos is that they have a proprietary spoke design that could be problem is they break - ask anyone who had a pair of Spinergys X-Aeros and trying to get spares.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • mrushton
    mrushton Posts: 5,182
    Monty Dog wrote:
    The reason that 303s aren't that popular is that they aren't the stiffest wheels in the world and the relatively shallow rim only provides marginal aero benefit - if spending that amount of money a deeper rim will be stiffer and more aero for a slight weight penalty. Without knowing your intended use, weight and riding style is difficult to make any other recommendations. Problem with the Topolinos is that they have a proprietary spoke design that could be problem is they break - ask anyone who had a pair of Spinergys X-Aeros and trying to get spares.

    The 303's are designed more for uphill riding whereas the 404 are a good do everything wheel., altho' I think Zipp are a love/hate thing. good crash replacement policy tho' The Topolinos are based on Lightweight Design but I'm sure Primera will tell you that the wheel/spoke should be ok under normal conditions
    M.Rushton
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    In this country I really don't think there would be any routes which warrented the 303 over the 404, apart from perhaps hill climbs, (although some LWs would be better!)

    Even on the Etape, you'll probably find more benefit from the 404s because of all the flats and downhills. Toplinos might not be very popular for a reason, but i don't know!!
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • idaviesmoore
    idaviesmoore Posts: 557
    I use Hed Jet 50's and they're ace :D
    'How can an opinion be bullsh1t?' High Fidelity
  • bigal.
    bigal. Posts: 479
    To answer a couple of questions it's clinchers that I am looking at and I weigh in at 74 kgs at the moment.

    The type of riding that I would be using this type of wheel on would be undulating/hilly recreational rides between 50 - 100 miles and UK sportives which are generally the hilliest ones that I can find. ( FWC, White Rose,Spud etc).

    One concern that I had with the deeper sectioned rims was the wind which is why I had looked at both the 303 and the Tdf 38. I have heard a lot of varied comments about the 303's but very little about the Rolf Prima.

    Has anyone experienced the Prima's.??
  • portuguese mike
    portuguese mike Posts: 695
    bigal. wrote:
    To answer a couple of questions it's clinchers that I am looking at and I weigh in at 74 kgs at the moment.

    The type of riding that I would be using this type of wheel on would be undulating/hilly recreational rides between 50 - 100 miles and UK sportives which are generally the hilliest ones that I can find. ( FWC, White Rose,Spud etc).

    One concern that I had with the deeper sectioned rims was the wind which is why I had looked at both the 303 and the Tdf 38. I have heard a lot of varied comments about the 303's but very little about the Rolf Prima.

    Has anyone experienced the Prima's.??

    The Rolf TDf38 clinchers are HEAVY and not worth it IMO if you're going to climb a lot of hils, the tub versions on the other hand i think are a very good wheel from what i've heard.

    If i was you i'd go for Reynolds MV32C or DV46C or Edge 38 on DT240 hubs with DT aerolite or Sapim CX ray spokes, say 20/24, I'm leaning toward the edge rims at the mo as i think a 38mm rim should be a bit more aero without being a handful in crosswinds (personally i'm thinking about getting some edge tubulars built with a 38mm front and 68mm rear as i'm concerned about crosswinds too - i weigh the same as you)[/b]
    pm
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    Zipp clinchers are overpriced - you can get full carbon clinchers for the same price which are far lighter and better built.
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  • portuguese mike
    portuguese mike Posts: 695
    redddraggon wrote:
    Zipp clinchers are overpriced - you can get full carbon clinchers for the same price which are far lighter and better built.

    Exactly - the reynolds wheels i mentioned for example - even the cheaper Attack/Assault reynolds wheels are far lighter than the zipp clinchers. Zipp clincher 303 rims weigh over 550g each whereas even the reynolds assault rims comes in at around 500g ( the MV32C and DV46 C are 430 and 460g respectively) or just under and is way way cheaper. bottom line is i've not heard a good thing about zipp clinchers
    pm
  • wildmoustache
    wildmoustache Posts: 4,010
    I would also throw into the mix the reynolds DV46C rim build with whatever you like ... depending on your budget. i'd be tempted to go Dt190s with DT Aerolite spokes but that is quite high end .

    I believe you can buy zipp rims individually.. I guess contact them directly to check.

    All of these rims are aero ... the important things here really are the cost, the weight, and the braking track. If you want an alloy track then cosmic carbones are probably in their too.
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    How about the Reynolds attacks.

    Full carbon clincher
    80 grams lighter than 303 clinchers
    and all for £684 at Wiggle at the moment

    So with that money you can get a pair of nasty weather wheels and some very nice tyres into the bargain as well.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • aracer
    aracer Posts: 1,649
    Given http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... hp?t=35795 and http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... hp?t=35946 I'd never even consider buying a Rolf wheel.
  • wildmoustache
    wildmoustache Posts: 4,010
    Jez mon wrote:
    Erm, carbon rims are fine for stopping in the dry, and I'd rather not use 1000 quid wheels in the wet anyway


    Are carbon rims with clinchers ok on long mountain descents? Can any engineers here give their perspective on this? Is the tyre more likely to move off the rim with a carbon rim under continual heavy braking or an alloy rim or not much in it?

    I'd certainly want a tight fit of tyre ... which I believe is what the Reynolds clinchers give you.
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    There are a variety of carbon clincher users sharing their opinions here
    http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46820

    However, no answer to wildmoustache's question. TBH i have to say i'd be worried about carbon clinchers on long descents, and tubbies on long descents. However, I'm a worrier!

    One thing that is perhaps telling is the lack of pro teams using carbon clinchers, given the fact that modern clinchers roll better than tubs.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    Jez mon wrote:
    One thing that is perhaps telling is the lack of pro teams using carbon clinchers, given the fact that modern clinchers roll better than tubs.

    A few reasons why not.....

    Most of the wheel manufacturers that sponsor these teams - Zipp, Campag, Mavic don't make light deep section clinchers.

    Most people who use tubs seems to prefer them, rolling resistance isn't everything.

    And there's probably other reasons, but I have seen a good few clinchers in use in Pro races though.
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  • wildmoustache
    wildmoustache Posts: 4,010
    I'd rather have a tub on a long descent to a carbon clincher ... simply because the former IME tends to let air out slowly ... I know you can roll a tub ... but just go easy on the braking ... at least you know that lots of people do it. Carbon clinchers are an unknown quantity. I'd be nervous going down the side of a Dolomite on one, but would love to know there's no reason for this over and above alloy clinchers.

    I guess they are still good for UK riding as you don't get such extreme braking?
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    wildmoustache wrote:
    I guess they are still good for UK riding as you don't get such extreme braking?

    Ahh, but you get loads of rain in the UK, I don't think the carbon rim will brake any near as well as an alloy one.
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  • wildmoustache
    wildmoustache Posts: 4,010
    Who wants to ride in the rain ... these are nay training wheels reddrags !!!

    until this year we didn't get rain in the southeast but that has all changed. If it's raining I don't bother. For racing I go tub anyway as if you puncture it's game over.

    the attraction of the carbon clincher thing for me is 1) class training /posing in the dry 2) UK sportifs.
  • bigal.
    bigal. Posts: 479
    Glad I posted up with this as I have now changed my thinking and am leaning towards the Reynolds MV32C set. Wiggle have got then at the moment at £1199.00 which is a lot of money but they do look bloody nice and hopefully very functional.

    Thanks for the advice and if anyone has the Reynolds MV32's I would love to hear what you think. :lol:

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