Which carbon fibre sportive/audax frame?

Burghley
Burghley Posts: 412
edited August 2008 in Workshop
Hi

There must be plenty of you out there riding the new crop of carbon fibre sportive and audax frames, i.e. more relaxed angles with longer head tube to give a more upright riding position.

I fancy a carbon fibre frame to add to my usual XACD titanium frames. I am considering all the usual sportive suspects - Giant, Specialized, Trek, Orbea, Willier etc. - as well as the Pearson audax with mudguards.

It will be used for day rides of between 50 and 100 miles, and I am six foot tall and weigh 77Kg.

Which do you recommend, and why?

Rgds

Pete
www.bikesetup.co.uk
miles more cycling comfort
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Comments

  • FORUM EXPERT
    FORUM EXPERT Posts: 80
    Trek Madone Performance range.

    There is no such thing as a sportive frame. Position is what counts. Everything else is just marketing
  • cookiemonster
    cookiemonster Posts: 668
    I'm in the market for something very similar, also same kind of size as yourself (just over 6ft & 73kg), so looking at 57/58cm frames. I need a slightly more upright stance as I had a back injury last year. The thing is the only bikes with longer top tubes are the spesh (roubaix at 210) and strangely the Wilier (at 195), pretty much everything else is down in the 160 - 175cm bracket which means a stack of spacers or an angled up stem (which I have at the mo') Much as I respect spesh and trek (and Ive a spesh mtb which is great), I just cant see myself handing over a couple of thousand beer tokens for the biking equivalent of a Ford :D

    The madone 5.5 is 190 I think for their 57/58 frame.

    Also there's definately differences in stiffness of carbon frames (whether you call them "sportive" or not is another matter) - just try a spesh roubiax back to back with something like a focus cayo - like riding jelly and razor blades

    jon
  • tomo_scotto
    tomo_scotto Posts: 1
    Specialized Roubaix, Giant Defy range (2009), Baum custom made steel frame
  • sicrow
    sicrow Posts: 791
    Spesh Roubaix got my vote - comfy as hell
    http://www.action.org.uk/sponsor/simoncrowther
  • northpole
    northpole Posts: 1,499
    Last year I bought a Spesh Roubaix Pro - far too good for my level of fitness but lower back problems convinced me it wouldn't have any down sides.

    A year later I am delighted to report that it has been fantastic - so much easier to ride than my old aluminium Condor.

    I too am just over 6' tall and around 80kg.

    If I wasn't as wary about my back I'm sure I would go for something with a more racy profile. But I'm not, so I won't!

    Incidentally, I don't think you need to spend as much - there is a Roubaix '08 model which you can pick up for around £1k which to my mind looks great with an all carbon frame.

    Peter
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    Why does it have to be carbon ffs? What's wrong with something like this ....

    http://kinesisbikes.co.uk/product.php?id=44
  • northpole
    northpole Posts: 1,499
    Giant mancp

    Carbon because that's what the originator of this thread inquired about.

    Condor have some interesting steel and, if you want to spend a bit more, titanium bikes with a similar name to the model you have highlighted. Well worth a look, provided you are happy to look beyond carbon.

    Peter
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    Yes I know that thank you. I can read. I was just suggesting an alternative to carbon which I personally don't think is the best material for a sportive, there are others.

    And look at you, suggesting titanium. Pot calling the kettle black mate?
  • Burghley
    Burghley Posts: 412
    Hi

    All of the replies so far are much appreciated.

    Why carbon fibre? Because I fancy a change - I already have three titanium frames, three aluminium, and one steel!

    The Specialized Roubaix is currently at the top of my list. All the reviews are very positive, and all owners seem delighted with their purchase.

    After looking through their excellent web site I popped into Epic Cycles at the weekend. The Orbea Onix certainly caught my eye, as did the Willier and Viner (although they all seem very "loud" in comparison to my titanium bikes).

    There is no rush to purchase - I intend to enjoy the experience.

    Rgds

    Pete
    www.bikesetup.co.uk
    miles more cycling comfort
  • gavintc
    gavintc Posts: 3,009
    Cervelo RS - a lovely quality ride from a more distinctive manufacturer. Forget Spec, Giant, Trek (the Ford cycling equivalent) and ride a bike from a small but quality company.
  • aracer
    aracer Posts: 1,649
    giant mancp wrote:
    Yes I know that thank you. I can read. I was just suggesting an alternative to carbon which I personally don't think is the best material for a sportive
    Why on earth not?

    I note in that write up for the frame you link to they are using bicycle mythological BS of the highest order - I note the strange lack of the use of the word "aluminium"!
  • passout
    passout Posts: 4,425
    Ribble Nero Corsa with a shorter stem? You get can measured up in the shop. In fact you could say the same about most bikes without an excessively long top tube (eg Planet X) - just change the stem.
    'Happiness serves hardly any other purpose than to make unhappiness possible' Marcel Proust.
  • Barry Roubaix
    Barry Roubaix Posts: 233
    gavintc wrote:
    Cervelo RS - a lovely quality ride from a more distinctive manufacturer. Forget Spec, Giant, Trek (the Ford cycling equivalent) and ride a bike from a small but quality company.

    I was considering one of these - until I saw one in the flesh. I was disappointed with the finishing on the frame, considering it's £2,000 I would have expected better.
  • gavintc
    gavintc Posts: 3,009
    Barry Roubaix wrote:
    gavintc wrote:
    Cervelo RS - a lovely quality ride from a more distinctive manufacturer. Forget Spec, Giant, Trek (the Ford cycling equivalent) and ride a bike from a small but quality company.

    I was considering one of these - until I saw one in the flesh. I was disappointed with the finishing on the frame, considering it's £2,000 I would have expected better.

    I think you will find that the frame retails at £1600. The R3 (the race frame) is £2000. It is your personal opinion, but I do not think the finish is any different from any other top end carbon bike.
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    aracer wrote:
    giant mancp wrote:
    Yes I know that thank you. I can read. I was just suggesting an alternative to carbon which I personally don't think is the best material for a sportive
    Why on earth not?

    I note in that write up for the frame you link to they are using bicycle mythological BS of the highest order - I note the strange lack of the use of the word "aluminium"!

    So what? I didn't write it, they did. BS or not you don't have to use a carbon frame for every bloody thing. I love a carbon frame but it's up to the individual what they find comfortable, especially for events like sportives and audaxes
  • arankapila
    arankapila Posts: 39
    I have a trek madone 5.5 performance fit (2008). I will swear by it. Recently just did LEJOG on it and was riding about 120 miles a day. Apart from a bit of bum soreness it was super comfy. I am 6'1" and I weigh around 80-85kg. With the right saddle it just glides over the road.

    hope that helps.
  • scak456
    scak456 Posts: 55
    In a similar position to the OP.

    Paul Hewitt recommended the Cervelo RS so that's in the lead with me so far.

    Also stil considering a Look 585 Optimum, of which there is a review in this weeks CW where it gets 10/10 (seem to remember that the RS got the same score).

    Cheers
    SK
  • wildmoustache
    wildmoustache Posts: 4,010
    Burghley wrote:
    Hi

    All of the replies so far are much appreciated.

    Why carbon fibre? Because I fancy a change - I already have three titanium frames, three aluminium, and one steel!

    The Specialized Roubaix is currently at the top of my list. All the reviews are very positive, and all owners seem delighted with their purchase.

    After looking through their excellent web site I popped into Epic Cycles at the weekend. The Orbea Onix certainly caught my eye, as did the Willier and Viner (although they all seem very "loud" in comparison to my titanium bikes).

    There is no rush to purchase - I intend to enjoy the experience.

    Rgds

    Pete

    apologies to all those who own a roubaix but I'd never buy one. It just screams "cycling is the new golf and here's a new 40 something sportif pilot on board!!"

    sure they are fine bikes but the image rules them out for me.

    any sportif bike has this going on somewhat .. but the roubaix far more so.

    What about just getting a cheap carbon frame and setting it up with some spacers to achieve the right handlebar height?
  • wildmoustache
    wildmoustache Posts: 4,010
    gavintc wrote:
    Barry Roubaix wrote:
    gavintc wrote:
    Cervelo RS - a lovely quality ride from a more distinctive manufacturer. Forget Spec, Giant, Trek (the Ford cycling equivalent) and ride a bike from a small but quality company.

    I was considering one of these - until I saw one in the flesh. I was disappointed with the finishing on the frame, considering it's £2,000 I would have expected better.

    I think you will find that the frame retails at £1600. The R3 (the race frame) is £2000. It is your personal opinion, but I do not think the finish is any different from any other top end carbon bike.

    It is different ... I've looked at a few dozen Cervelos up close and the finish on every one has been substantially worse than every other high-end carbon frame I've seen. That said, they are still supposed to be great bikes to ride, and are light. So crap finish doesn't necessarily mean crap frame by any means. But if you care about an exquisitely finished product I'd look elsewhere
  • Barry Roubaix
    Barry Roubaix Posts: 233
    wildmoustache wrote:
    gavintc wrote:
    Barry Roubaix wrote:
    gavintc wrote:
    Cervelo RS - a lovely quality ride from a more distinctive manufacturer. Forget Spec, Giant, Trek (the Ford cycling equivalent) and ride a bike from a small but quality company.

    I was considering one of these - until I saw one in the flesh. I was disappointed with the finishing on the frame, considering it's £2,000 I would have expected better.

    I think you will find that the frame retails at £1600. The R3 (the race frame) is £2000. It is your personal opinion, but I do not think the finish is any different from any other top end carbon bike.

    It is different ... I've looked at a few dozen Cervelos up close and the finish on every one has been substantially worse than every other high-end carbon frame I've seen. That said, they are still supposed to be great bikes to ride, and are light. So crap finish doesn't necessarily mean crap frame by any means. But if you care about an exquisitely finished product I'd look elsewhere

    I did! I never said the Cervelo was a crap frame - I was seriously considering one but I want this purchase to tick all the boxes, so I rule dit out on its finish.

    I decided on a Viner Maxima - beautiful finish and handmade in Italy.
  • wildmoustache
    wildmoustache Posts: 4,010
    Barry Roubaix wrote:
    wildmoustache wrote:
    gavintc wrote:
    Barry Roubaix wrote:
    gavintc wrote:
    Cervelo RS - a lovely quality ride from a more distinctive manufacturer. Forget Spec, Giant, Trek (the Ford cycling equivalent) and ride a bike from a small but quality company.

    I was considering one of these - until I saw one in the flesh. I was disappointed with the finishing on the frame, considering it's £2,000 I would have expected better.

    I think you will find that the frame retails at £1600. The R3 (the race frame) is £2000. It is your personal opinion, but I do not think the finish is any different from any other top end carbon bike.

    It is different ... I've looked at a few dozen Cervelos up close and the finish on every one has been substantially worse than every other high-end carbon frame I've seen. That said, they are still supposed to be great bikes to ride, and are light. So crap finish doesn't necessarily mean crap frame by any means. But if you care about an exquisitely finished product I'd look elsewhere

    I did! I never said the Cervelo was a crap frame - I was seriously considering one but I want this purchase to tick all the boxes, so I rule dit out on its finish.

    I decided on a Viner Maxima - beautiful finish and handmade in Italy.

    same here on the cervelo ... ended up with a 585 ultra. other thing is that cervelos are pretty common these days (for a reason ... people like the looks / CSC connection / they ride well etc.) ... but if that bothers you then again, look elsewhere
  • clark1312
    clark1312 Posts: 38
    I would have to agree with the comments regarding the finish of the R3. I owned one but sold it recently, the finish is definitely not to the standard of my Prince carbon or Colnago C40, but as other people have said, its personal preference, but bearing in mind how much they cost should be better.
  • Burghley
    Burghley Posts: 412
    Hi wildmoustache

    You mention getting a cheap carbon frame and using spacers to raise the handlebars. I did that for many years when I couldn't afford custom (indeed a couple of my present bikes are like that).

    In my opinion a bike looks better without a high stack of spacers and upturned stem. The manufacturers have also realised this - hence the current trend for a longer head tube.

    Quite frankly, given my age, I would be quite flattered to be called "...here's a new 40 something sportif pilot on board!!"

    To return to the original thread, almost every manufacturer makes a carbon fibre frame with a longer head tube and more relaxed angles and these suit my needs.

    On the question of cost, I cannot really justify spending £1700/2000 on a frame alone, much as I would love to. This means that the excellent Cervelo and Look models have to be ruled out.

    Realistically, I will probably spend £1500/1700 on the bike to give me a good frame, a reasonable wheelset, and a mid-priced groupset. Beyond that cost extra spending probably only brings marginal improvement.

    Rgds

    Pete
    www.bikesetup.co.uk
    miles more cycling comfort
  • cock_sportif
    cock_sportif Posts: 106
    wildmoustache wrote:
    apologies to all those who own a roubaix but I'd never buy one. It just screams "cycling is the new golf and here's a new 40 something sportif pilot on board!!"

    Snigger :twisted:
  • wildmoustache
    wildmoustache Posts: 4,010
    faie enough pete ...

    In which case - given you don't want Ti - I'd look at the Roubaix ! :lol:

    Word of warning on the Treks ... the rear hanger is non-replaceable. If it goes ... you need a new frame. I'd quite possibily have bought a 6.5 or 6.9 if it hadn't been for this helpful feature
  • 16simon
    16simon Posts: 154
    wildmoustache wrote:
    Word of warning on the Treks ... the rear hanger is non-replaceable. If it goes ... you need a new frame

    No, you can return it to Trek to have a new dropout bonded in. Inconvenient, yes, but not the same as needing a new frame. Apparently the 09 Madones have replaceable hangers.

    Sportive frames aren't my thing but I don't think that you can suggest that running a stack of spacers and/or short stem on a racing frame is the same as a dedicated sportive frame. I think that manufacturers like Specialized have carefully considered their target market and have put a lot of thought into the geometry and frame characteristics of bikes like the Roubaix to give a more upright, less stretched position, with a more comfortable ride. The head tube angle is also slightly slacker (than, for example, a Tarmac) for less twitchy steering.
  • wildmoustache
    wildmoustache Posts: 4,010
    I hadn't heard that about the bonding ... interesting ... a Trek dealer told me it was new frame time! Do Trek meet the costs of returning it to them? Does it actually have to go to the US? Inconvenient in the extreme if yes. Still a compelling reason for not buying a Trek IMO ... though great if the new Madones are swtiching over to replaceable.

    shorter stem is definitely very different I agree ... but then you can get normal headtube length frames that have relatively short TTs ... so it isn't necessary to run a shorter stem on a "normal" road bike than on a sportif bike.

    Sportif bikes do vary ... and some feature longer chainstays for slower handling and more comfort ... Not convinced there is much difference handling wise between a tall headtube and shorter headtube with spacers ... the later is obviously a more flexible set-up however. Sportif bikes and big stacks of spacers aren't my thing either BTW ...
  • Lagavulin
    Lagavulin Posts: 1,688
    Cannondale Synapse?
    2010 Cannondale CAAD 9
    2008 Wilier Izoard
  • The good doctor
    The good doctor Posts: 307
    Can someone explain the issue with the Cervelo "finish" please. Which model in particular are we talking about the RS or R3.

    Thanks

    John
  • wildmoustache
    wildmoustache Posts: 4,010
    The good doctor wrote:
    Can someone explain the issue with the Cervelo "finish" please. Which model in particular are we talking about the RS or R3.

    Thanks

    John

    the models I was referring to were R3s and Soloists. Essentially the frames have a large number of imperfections and look ... on inspection of the inside of tubes for example, very rough and ready. Like I said though ... whether it matters to an athlete, as opposed to an aesthete is another matter (see what I've done there? :lol: )

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