what is the logic

dave_1

in publicising the new dope testing methods they have for Eneco Tour. keep it quiet is best and catch them...????

kinda dumb eneco organiser

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... /aug19news

iainf72

Do you mean the Tour of Germany?

If they say they're going to use IRMS always then you can't "manage" your testosterone use because you will get caught.

What they're going for is "if you dope, we will catch you, so don't bother turning up unless your clean".

Kléber

Dave_1, you don't get it.

The whole point isn't to catch the cheats, it's to avoid scandal. By announcing the test now, you allow dodgy riders to get "tendonitis" and other sudden ailments. If you didn't mention it, they'd test positive during the race and just imagine how the German public would react. At the same time, the UCI will be monitoring which riders suddenly drop out.

dave_1

sorry, yes Tour of Germany, not eneco tour...apologies eneco. The race organisers should be trying to trap the cheats with surprise tests not inform them in advance of what drugs they can't use.

Eurostar

I would like to see some traps set now and again. It does worry me that the best dopers are still beating the system. The golden rule of good security is that you shouldn't tell everyone what measures you're taking, and the same should apply to dope testing. I don't think I'll ever believe that the races are clean until the testers get really devious and do their utmost to catch out the big names. For a start we really need to know the truth about Contador. He's a cloud hanging over the sport. I'd like to see WADA/ASO or somebody do something sneaky to try to trip him up, BEFORE he "wins" any more grand tours. The same approach should be taken with anyone who's got dodgy connections with the likes of Ferrari, Bruyneel, Astana and so on.

In the short term, setting traps would mean more scandals and more lost sponsors. But in the long run it's good for the sport. The sport can't be killed off, it will carry on having a huge profile (ironically, partly because of the doping scandals) and big new sponsors like Columbia, Garmin and Chipotle will be attracted to it IF they're confident that the riders won't disgrace them.

iainf72

Eurostar wrote:

For a start we really need to know the truth about Contador. He's a cloud hanging over the sport. I'd like to see WADA/ASO or somebody do something sneaky to try to trip him up, BEFORE he "wins" any more grand tours. The same approach should be taken with anyone who's got dodgy connections with the likes of Ferrari, Bruyneel, Astana and so on.

It appears you've already decided what the truth is.

Does the fact that Columbia and Garmin both have riders who used to be clients of Ferrari worry you?

Eurostar

Yes, it does worry me. The only person I sincerely believe to be clean is Evans because he has such problems with stuff like 'attacking' and 'recovery' and 'winning'.

As for Contado(pe)r, i don't know what to think. I honestly haven't made my mind up. But ASO have done a pretty good job of smearing him, and you have to wonder whether they know something.

I didn't enjoy the Tour this year. I'd like to go along with the theory that it was generally clean because the pace was low and it was so close. But I still have my doubts. Which is just no fun at all. I'm quite jealous of people who managed to get into it.

timoid.

Don't think ASO's beef was with Contador. After all they handed him a Tour win.

andyp

Eurostar wrote:

Yes, it does worry me. The only person I sincerely believe to be clean is Evans because he has such problems with stuff like 'attacking' and 'recovery' and 'winning'.

Really? What evidence do you have that he's clean, i.e. Silence-Lotto have no independent testing regime in place.

You should know better than to base your opinion of who is or isn't clean on how they race. Basso was held up by many as a clean rider based partly on his steady progression as a rider and partly on his 'normal' blood values. Look how that turned out.

Eurostar

OK, you win. Evans is just an average domestique who has doped his way into becoming a second rate team leader.

Maybe it's time for me to abandon men's racing until the doping war is won. I could watch women's racing instead, in the hope there's no doping because (a) there's not much money in the sport and (b) women take less risks with their health.

iainf72

Eurostar, say hi to Maria Isabel Moreno

Eurostar

Ah, but she's Spanish. Everyone in Spain dopes, even the women. That's why they're having such a brilliant year in every sport under the sun. Look at Nadal - the biggest hippy ever seen on a tennis court.

timoid.

Eurostar wrote:

Ah, but she's Spanish. Everyone in Spain dopes, even the women. That's why they're having such a brilliant year in every sport under the sun. Look at Nadal - the biggest hippy ever seen on a tennis court.

I'm sure he's looking at Hoy and scratching his chin too...

iainf72

On a serious note, I think you need to just accept there will be naughtiness happening but there is cause for hope as the net is closing.

It looks like it's becoming harder to get away with it.

Evans might be clean - Bertie might be clean. The GB track team might be clean. Until we're presented with evidence that they're not then we should give them the benefit of the doubt.

Eurostar

No, Hoy is a god. As are all the GB cycling squad. If any of them ever fails a test I shall burn down all British velodromes.

Kléber

Look at Hoy and he doesn't have those tell-tale signs of steroid abuse. No bone growth on the jaw, no new ridges of bone on the brow. Actually, same goes for Nadal too.

But look at some football and rugby player, or Virenque, Riis and some other cyclist I'm not going to name for fear of legal action and their faces appear to me to have changed shape during their career.

synchronicity

I say make it legal, give them all free drugs & level the playing field. That way, the money that is saved on all the testing goes straight towards the riders.

I'm starting to think that the non-drug users only do so because it's illegal, not because of the risks to their bodies.

I can't believe I just said that...
I'm only half-serious of course, but at least it would reveal who is the better athlete! :P The way it is now, there's doubt over all record-breaking performances. :roll:

synchronicity

iainf72 wrote:

Eurostar, say hi to Maria Isabel Moreno

The funny thing is that here in Spain, after the initial brief headlines announced on the national news, that was never mentioned again. It was totally swept under the carpet! :shock:

drenkrom

Who says what the organizers announced is the full extent of what they'll do? I've dabbled in computer security long enough to know that any major announcement about new security measures never, ever reveals the full extent of the updates. The announcement is there to appease the customer, to give him peace of mind. The unannounced measures are the ones that are there to catch the bad guys.

I can only hope this is the case behind this announcement. Still, if I were organizing a race in Germany these days, I'd be on crap control as well.

iainf72

drenkrom wrote:

Who says what the organizers announced is the full extent of what they'll do? I've dabbled in computer security long enough to know that any major announcement about new security measures never, ever reveals the full extent of the updates.

Yes but the other lesson you should have learnt is that security through obscurity never works.

:P

Doing new stuff is always good anyway. Change the parameters and it makes it awkward to know how to get around things.

LangerDan

Kléber wrote:

Dave_1, you don't get it.

The whole point isn't to catch the cheats, it's to avoid scandal. By announcing the test now, you allow dodgy riders to get "tendonitis" and other sudden ailments. If you didn't mention it, they'd test positive during the race and just imagine how the German public would react. At the same time, the UCI will be monitoring which riders suddenly drop out.

Erik Zabel has announced that he won't be riding the Deutschland Tour, preffering instead to concentrate on the Vuelta...............................

skavanagh.bikeradar

As it's harder to get around a control we've got a new game to play: spot the dodgy excuse! Although Zabel might well be genuinely saving his old legs for the Vuelta.

iainf72

skavanagh.bikeradar wrote:

As it's harder to get around a control we've got a new game to play: spot the dodgy excuse! Although Zabel might well be genuinely saving his old legs for the Vuelta.

He might well be. :roll: Because Germans like to skip their own national tour in favour of a Spanish one.

synchronicity

Isn't the Spanish one more prestigous?