100m Olympic final

afx237vi

Sue Barker: "Track and field has been a little tarnished in recent years, this is just what the sport needs."

Yes, because when a man smashes the world record by jogging the final 50 metres... that's perfectly normal :shock:

Anyone else wish they could watch sport these days without being so cynical? I want to believe.

penugent

I know what you mean. It's the first thought that crossed my mind too. However, I'm prepared to consider him innocent until proven guilty - I'm an eternal optimist!!

locko75

Is it just us cyclists that think like that?? :?

tomashford

I think it is

campagone

And what about that Michael Phelps? Is he really naturally that good? And in my opinion I think it's bull**it that he eats 12000 calories a day, I mean come on, did you see the breakfast he supposedly eats, and then he does six hours training - you couldn't move after eating all that.

Parsnip49

FOR FU*K SAKE, STOP FU*KING ACCUSING PEOPLE OF DOPING, ITS LIKE A FU*KING BROKEN RECORD, YOUR AREN'T BEING CYNICAL, YOU ARE BEING A TW*T. CHEATERS ARE THE MINORITY, NOT THE MAJORITY.

and breathe...

Its gotten to the stage now when armchair pundits cant seem to comprehend talking about sport without accusing everyone of doping - it has to stop. Its boring to listen to and the majority of accusations are utter boll*cks.

Why is it BS that he eats 12000 calories a day??? Are you actually aware of how much pish you are talking??

Is it just us cyclists that think like that??

No, its people who like talking crap, dont try to tar cyclists with the "we accuse everything that moves of doping" brush.

I hate doping - i used to love Ricco, i was properly upset and pissed off when he was outed. I hate even more the constant accusations from people with nothing better to talk about.

SAVE THE DOPING CHAT TILL SOMEONE IS CAUGHT, SPECULATING BECAUSE SOMEONE IS A GOOD ATHELETE IS JUST NONSENSE.

[EDIT] Not aimed at anyone in particular, more at all the eejits who point the doping finger at every sportsperson on the planet[/EDIT]

NJK

Parsnip49 wrote:

FOR FU*K SAKE, STOP FU*KING ACCUSING PEOPLE OF DOPING, ITS LIKE A FU*KING BROKEN RECORD, YOUR AREN'T BEING CYNICAL, YOU ARE BEING A TW*T. CHEATERS ARE THE MINORITY, NOT THE MAJORITY.

and breathe...

Its gotten to the stage now when armchair pundits cant seem to comprehend talking about sport without accusing everyone of doping - it has to stop. Its boring to listen to and the majority of accusations are utter boll*cks.

Why is it BS that he eats 12000 calories a day??? Are you actually aware of how much pish you are talking??

Is it just us cyclists that think like that??

No, its people who like talking crap, dont try to tar cyclists with the "we accuse everything that moves of doping" brush.

I hate doping - i used to love Ricco, i was properly upset and pissed off when he was outed. I hate even more the constant accusations from people with nothing better to talk about.

SAVE THE DOPING CHAT TILL SOMEONE IS CAUGHT, SPECULATING BECAUSE SOMEONE IS A GOOD ATHELETE IS JUST NONSENSE.

Oh dear. I'm sorry that you thought Ricco didn't dope prior to his chucking out. O.K we should all lay off a man that has done 9.69 while drinking tea and smoking a cigar, sounds pretty similar to Ricco. Armchair pundits with physiology degrees like me like to analyse sports and performance and if i think that looks a bit strange i can say it.

SteveR_100Milers

I think there is a perfectly pausible explanation for a 9.72 100m, look at the length and stride length. In ricco's case, there was no other possible rational explanation now was there? be careful the earth isnt flat.

andyp

Parsnip49 wrote:

FOR FU*K SAKE, STOP FU*KING ACCUSING PEOPLE OF DOPING, ITS LIKE A FU*KING BROKEN RECORD, YOUR AREN'T BEING CYNICAL, YOU ARE BEING A TW*T. CHEATERS ARE THE MINORITY, NOT THE MAJORITY.

Sadly in some sports, and cycling and athletics are both in this category, it's been proven in recent years that doping is systematic at the highest level of the sport, i.e. everyone is doping.

That's why people are cynical - they've seen too many performances that turn out to be chemically assisted rather than the endeavours of hard work and sacrifice.

NJK

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

I think there is a perfectly pausible explanation for a 9.72 100m, look at the length and stride length. In ricco's case, there was no other possible rational explanation now was there? be careful the earth isnt flat.

Carl Lewis, Linford Christie decent stride pattern i would say. Lewis extremely talented struggled to run 9.90. We know people dope the facts are there recent winners of the 100m mens & womens have not tested positive but been found out . Bolt won't test psoitive, probably why he has been so confident for about a year.

BattoowooGreekgreek

Its worth noting Carl Lewis is 6'2" , Bolt is 6'5" , it makes sense that if he can have as good a technique and do only slightly larger strides at the same pace as CL he will be quicker and therefore beat 9.90

Think I'll give Bolt the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise on the doping thing , its just the early celebration before hitting the line whilst beating the WR is pretty incredible

avoidingmyphd

I don't think Bolt doped, and I really hope he didn't but you're wrong to say his height advantage over Carl Lewis logically translates to a better performance if he matches his technique. he has three extra inches to drag out of his blocks, so he needs better technique at the start at least.

richa

In my view, all other things being equal size must translate to speed.

Ambermile

RichA wrote:

In my view, all other things being equal size must translate to speed.

Ahem... not in *some* things... :oops:


Arthur

BattoowooGreekgreek

RichA wrote:

In my view, all other things being equal size must translate to speed.

Yep, concisely put , the exact point I was trying to make

stjohnswell

it was a spectacle and i really enjoyed it. I wish he'd sprinted across the line - just to see what the time would have been. :shock:

attica

Lately my cynicism has taken a new turn.
As testing improves, especially with the CERA test at the TdF, I can't help thinking that some unexpectedly poor performances are because people are no longer doping.

Does anybody else think that Cunego's poor performance at the tour might have been down to a lack of drugs? I know some people say he's not a GT rider but he really did sink without a trace, is it perhaps possible that he stopped doping before the tour?

Every time I see an unexpectedly poor performance nowadays, I wonder if they've come back from the dark side and are paying the price.

redvee

It has been said the track is fast as it is new and hard which produces fast times but that should be reflected in the times and performances of the other sprinters in the final. I too had the 'another Ben Johnson' view but think that it would be stupid this day and age with all the rigorous testing they have to go through, till the test comes back clean we'll all be dubious.

NJK

A lot of my cynicism stems from while everyone accepts that 100m sprinting has had widespread doping e.g the whole field, very few people actually fail a test. Look at Chambers a cocktail of 6 drugs took at particular times throughout the season and proved undetectable throughout the season. Most of the field ran under 10 seconds for the 1st time ever, it isn't just look. I understand that the Jamaican federation don't do random drug testing which is unbelievable in this day and age.

richa

NJK wrote:

I understand that the Jamaican federation don't do random drug testing which is unbelievable in this day and age.

What is the cost of a drug programme?

It is unlikely that the top Jamacan stars live & train in Jamaca - most probably train in the States. These guys will be tested at the international meets that they attend throughout the year.

As an aside, what testing to British Cycling do? An inocent inquiry - do Elite racers get tested?

NJK

RichA wrote:

NJK wrote:

I understand that the Jamaican federation don't do random drug testing which is unbelievable in this day and age.

What is the cost of a drug programme?

It is unlikely that the top Jamacan stars live & train in Jamaca - most probably train in the States. These guys will be tested at the international meets that they attend throughout the year.

As an aside, what testing to British Cycling do? An inocent inquiry - do Elite racers get tested?

I might be wrong but i think they do train in Jamaica as a group. They will be tested at events but so was Dwain Chambers/Justin Gatlin etc. I'm not sure how much internal testing BC do, or whether it is as much as if you were on a elite pro road team.

Steve_b77

IF anyone who is spouting "it must be drugs" has cared to look at Bolts recored as a Junior, you'd see that he is immensly talented.

When he was 15 he ran 20.5 for the 200m and at 17 (I think as I remember it on R5 this morning) he ran 45.3 for the 400m.

Michael Johnson said after the final he's the tall guy that has learnt to coordinate & control his lengthy limbs, and combine this with his undoubted flat speed, once it all came together it was pretty obvious he would break the 100m record again, he'll no doubt break the 200m record very soon.

It just makes sense, huge stride, fast leg movmements and awesome flat speed = incredible sprint times.

Can anyone actually recall the last Jamican athelete to be done for doping??

wildmoustache

None of us know whether this guys dopes or not. The point is that it's very hard now not to be suspicious of such phenomenal performances. That's sad ... but it's also rational. The only solution to this is far more transparency about athletes' biological data, responses to training, and so on. And stiffer financial penalities for those who are caught. Cycling is making lots of progress and other sports need to get their 5hit together too.

Stewie Griffin

I would love to believe innocent until fails a test, did Marion Jones fail a test ever? Wasnt she grassed up by one of her husbands for Steroid abuse?

Bolt is financially rewarded for every time he breaks the record, therefore its not in his interest to run flat out and set a time that he would then struggle to better later on.

Stewie Cynical Griffin.

beverick

Is the Jamacan's performance in the 100m that much different from Wiggins et al knocking 3 seconds of the men's team persuit world record today.

With the endemic and long running use of drugs in cycling there's always going to be suspicion of abuse.

...and if you're looking for a target how about Rebecca Adlington breaking a 19 year old world record by two seconds and her nearest opponent by more than 6 seconds. That's more than suspicious especially from a swimmer who couldn't even get into the british squad 18 months ago and is in the lowest category for funding.

It's a bit like an average club rider winning the TdeF.....

Bob

wildmoustache

Yes - I am suspicious there as well

pjm-84

Is the Jamacan's performance in the 100m that much different from Wiggins et al knocking 3 seconds of the men's team persuit world record today.

I think if Bradley and chums wheelied their bikes across the line one handed and still broke the record then hmmmmm......

synchronicity

Parsnip49 wrote:

FOR FU*K SAKE, STOP FU*KING ACCUSING PEOPLE OF DOPING, ITS LIKE A FU*KING BROKEN RECORD, YOUR AREN'T BEING CYNICAL, YOU ARE BEING A TW*T. CHEATERS ARE THE MINORITY, NOT THE MAJORITY.

and breathe...

Its gotten to the stage now when armchair pundits cant seem to comprehend talking about sport without accusing everyone of doping - it has to stop. Its boring to listen to and the majority of accusations are utter boll*cks.

Why is it BS that he eats 12000 calories a day??? Are you actually aware of how much pish you are talking??

Is it just us cyclists that think like that??

No, its people who like talking crap, dont try to tar cyclists with the "we accuse everything that moves of doping" brush.

I hate doping - i used to love Ricco, i was properly upset and pissed off when he was outed. I hate even more the constant accusations from people with nothing better to talk about.

SAVE THE DOPING CHAT TILL SOMEONE IS CAUGHT, SPECULATING BECAUSE SOMEONE IS A GOOD ATHELETE IS JUST NONSENSE.

[EDIT] Not aimed at anyone in particular, more at all the eejits who point the doping finger at every sportsperson on the planet[/EDIT]

Nice post. Really. I agree wholeheartedly.

I think his extra height explains why he's so fast. It's bloody obvious. It's why he took a while to get going.

NJK wrote:

Armchair pundits with physiology degrees like me like to analyse sports and performance and if i think that looks a bit strange i can say it.

And as an ex-scientist, I leave the doping results up to the scientists doing the tests... :roll:
The trouble is, if you're wrong, speculations like yours will tarnish the reputation of one of the most talented sprinters in recent times. The thing is, no one really knows what people are taking or how effective their training is (including you, with all your expertise), so I think what the other poster is trying to point out is why does the topic have to come up so often? eh? Why can't we give people the benefit of the doubt? What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?????!!

I clicked the thread because it said "100m olympic final" - I would have stayed away if the word "doping" was in the title. Yeah. I should've known better. These days, we can't talk about pure athletic performances anymore. *sigh*

wildmoustache

synchronicity wrote:

Parsnip49 wrote:

FOR FU*K SAKE, STOP FU*KING ACCUSING PEOPLE OF DOPING, ITS LIKE A FU*KING BROKEN RECORD, YOUR AREN'T BEING CYNICAL, YOU ARE BEING A TW*T. CHEATERS ARE THE MINORITY, NOT THE MAJORITY.

and breathe...

Its gotten to the stage now when armchair pundits cant seem to comprehend talking about sport without accusing everyone of doping - it has to stop. Its boring to listen to and the majority of accusations are utter boll*cks.

Why is it BS that he eats 12000 calories a day??? Are you actually aware of how much pish you are talking??

Is it just us cyclists that think like that??

No, its people who like talking crap, dont try to tar cyclists with the "we accuse everything that moves of doping" brush.

I hate doping - i used to love Ricco, i was properly upset and pissed off when he was outed. I hate even more the constant accusations from people with nothing better to talk about.

SAVE THE DOPING CHAT TILL SOMEONE IS CAUGHT, SPECULATING BECAUSE SOMEONE IS A GOOD ATHELETE IS JUST NONSENSE.

[EDIT] Not aimed at anyone in particular, more at all the eejits who point the doping finger at every sportsperson on the planet[/EDIT]

Nice post. Really. I agree wholeheartedly.

I think his extra height explains why he's so fast. It's bloody obvious. It's why he took a while to get going.

NJK wrote:

Armchair pundits with physiology degrees like me like to analyse sports and performance and if i think that looks a bit strange i can say it.

And as an ex-scientist, I leave the doping results up to the scientists doing the tests... :roll:
The trouble is, if you're wrong, speculations like yours will tarnish the reputation of one of the most talented sprinters in recent times. The thing is, no one really knows what people are taking or how effective their training is (including you, with all your expertise), so I think what the other poster is trying to point out is why does the topic have to come up so often? eh? Why can't we give people the benefit of the doubt? What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?????!!

I clicked the thread because it said "100m olympic final" - I would have stayed away if the word "doping" was in the title. Yeah. I should've known better. These days, we can't talk about pure athletic performances anymore. *sigh*

Cycling fans are entitled to be a little bit sceptical I think!! And we're told cycling is doing more than other sports ... so ... should we therefore be less sceptical about them??

flattythehurdler

There have been suspicions raised at the muscle bulk he put on over he winter. IIRC Carl lewis tested positive at some point. Every sprinter in the Ben Johnson final subsequently tested positive at some point. Forgive me for being cycnical. I am relieved to hear he was that good as a teeneger , however, and choose to believe that he is the best on a level playing field. He is a sight to behold in full flight that's for sure. I don't think in any case that bulking up agents skew the field the way blood boosting does in a grand tour.
As regards the opinion of scientists, daamsgard, for instance believes that many tests declared negative or inconclusive do, in fact, give a clear indication of doping. Couple this with the evidence of the Dr from the Balco scandal, and it points strongly toward ongoing systematic cheating in track and field events. Balco was one of 5 or 6 labs doing similar things just in that area.

jimmythecuckoo

Parsnip49 wrote:

FOR FU*K SAKE, STOP FU*KING ACCUSING PEOPLE OF DOPING, ITS LIKE A FU*KING BROKEN RECORD, YOUR AREN'T BEING CYNICAL, YOU ARE BEING A TW*T. CHEATERS ARE THE MINORITY, NOT THE MAJORITY.

and breathe...

Its gotten to the stage now when armchair pundits cant seem to comprehend talking about sport without accusing everyone of doping - it has to stop. Its boring to listen to and the majority of accusations are utter boll*cks.

Why is it BS that he eats 12000 calories a day??? Are you actually aware of how much pish you are talking??

Is it just us cyclists that think like that??

No, its people who like talking crap, dont try to tar cyclists with the "we accuse everything that moves of doping" brush.

I hate doping - i used to love Ricco, i was properly upset and pissed off when he was outed. I hate even more the constant accusations from people with nothing better to talk about.

SAVE THE DOPING CHAT TILL SOMEONE IS CAUGHT, SPECULATING BECAUSE SOMEONE IS A GOOD ATHELETE IS JUST NONSENSE.

[EDIT] Not aimed at anyone in particular, more at all the eejits who point the doping finger at every sportsperson on the planet[/EDIT]

You're not the Parsnips of the Weymouth FC forum are you?