Should countries whose athletes dope be banned from sport?
it seems certain countries are consistently falling foul of the doping authorites, has the time come for countries to be banned from competition? This would create huge internal pressure to clean up. There would clearly be innocent victims but should short term draconian measures be taken to ensure the survival of cycling and sport in general?
(e.g. Spain, Italy etc...)
(e.g. Spain, Italy etc...)
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Dan777 wrote:it seems certain countries are consistently falling foul of the doping authorites, has the time come for countries to be banned from competition? This would create huge internal pressure to clean up. There would clearly be innocent victims but should short term draconian measures be taken to ensure the survival of cycling and sport in general?
(e.g. Spain, Italy etc...)
The innocent victim part kind of puts me off... Plus you're just encouraging national federations to push things even further underground than some of them already do.
I think all you'd end up doing is destroying world governing bodies."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
The innocent victim part troubles me as well. It just seems some countries have a strong doping culture.
Agree about it being driven underground, i could imagine a parallel competition where anything went regarding drugs. a 'chemist' would be as important to a team as a mechanic or director sportif.0 -
I think you misunderstand my concern. This stuff people spout about a paralell doped competition will never occour. Because the thats the reason doping is cheating isnt it? You do it to gain an advantage over those who don't.
My concern is that a federation realises it has a problem with an athlete and so, rather than working with the governing bodies to expose siad athlete, start fudging test results and realising they can get away with it and thus, ALL their athletes are then doped and managed in such a way that the Olympic, UCI, WADA or whoevers testers never catch them."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
You would'nt be the most popular man if you banned all Italians from the Giro because of one doper leading up to it0
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Why don't we get the Americans or Russians (who seem up for it this week) to bomb them too. That'll teach them to cheat at sport, no?0
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I don't think blanket bans help. But a big finger pointing towards Spain would help. For too long the Spanish authorties blocked the transfer of evidence in the Puerto case. Dr Fuentes continues to make provocative statements. And today we see how the Spanish Federation looks like it tried to side with a doper rather than ban Mayo. A quick reminder to Mr Lissavetsky to make doping a criminal matter would do wonders.0
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We in the UK are living in the same glass house, yet we continue to throw stones.
Christine O is just a forgetful athlete, while Michael Rasmussen is a dope cheat.
Rob Hayles? Given one of those LA, (sorry I mentioned him again :oops: ) back dated TUEs.
Dwain Chambers......Linford Christie.......
Fact is, we don't have a clue as to how strong our own doping culture might be.
We adopt the moral high ground, with an optimism born out of our own athlete's rhetoric.
i.e. They are British, so they must be telling the truth.
Lets hope they are, otherwise we will start to sound like gold medal hypocrites."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Dan777 wrote:it seems certain countries are consistently falling foul of the doping authorites, has the time come for countries to be banned from competition? This would create huge internal pressure to clean up. There would clearly be innocent victims but should short term draconian measures be taken to ensure the survival of cycling and sport in general?
(e.g. Spain, Italy etc...)
There will always be people using drugs. Either for recreation or athletics or for
addiction. No one can stop it. No country can stop it. Your idea won't stop it.
I would ask you the question "Why do you seem so outraged about all of this?" but
I already know the answer. The people you have put on a pedestal and made your hero's
are all proving not to be the "gods" you thought they were. It's tough to take,
losing your faith. As for the survival of cycling as a sport, I doubt that you have to worry
because you love cycling(right?) and why would a doper cause you to quit doing what
you love, unless you're just a posser and only ride because it's "cool"? And of course
now with all the doping "scandals" the riders involved are ruining the sport for you. If
you really love cycling why waste your time worrying about what others think and / or
do - get out and ride. And get better heroes if you must have them.
Dennis Noward0 -
I'm no big fan of pointing at particular countries, as like Blazing Saddles says, it mostly turns into pointing at other countries than your own. And, it really wouldn't work; individuals now already still go for doping, even though their teams get banned, lose their sponsor, and all staff lose their job. Those that cheat tend not to think about the rest of their team, why would that be any different for countries?
What I would support instead is the introduction of life-long bans in cycling for the more serious offences, like EPO. End of carreer, simple. And, although that'll never happen, I would applaud combining that with relaxing the rules at the other end for non-performance-enhancing stuff like cocaine, cannabis, maybe caffeine, etc. Completely ridiculous that Boonen was banned from the Tour de France - hypocricy reigns (his team should have fired him for not taking his profession seriously though, but that's another matter).0 -
FJS wrote:And, although that'll never happen, I would applaud combining that with relaxing the rules at the other end for non-performance-enhancing stuff like cocaine, cannabis, maybe caffeine, etc.
Just being pedantic but both cocaine and caffeine would have a level of performance enhancement if used during a race.
Trying to ban countries would be utterly pointless in cycling land. 5 guys get to ride the Olympics and 8 (is it 8?) can be in a team for the worlds. You couldn't impact trade teams and things like the Olympics are just a bit of a sideshow.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Getting off topic here, but caffeine maybe, although in a road race hardly anything significant. For cocaine, that's really debatable, just like alcohol (not banned), with more serious disadvantages than advantages. I think we can safely say that professional cyclists caught with cocaine, did not use it during races to enhance their performance, just like cannabis (remember the snowboarder ripped of his gold medal at the winter olympics some time ago for having cannabis in his blood; pathetic hypocrisy).iainf72 wrote:Just being pedantic but both cocaine and caffeine would have a level of performance enhancement if used during a race.0 -
Ridiculous!
Banning countries because of an individual? Are you high????0 -
Some of these athletes dont really have much to do with their countries though do they ?
Pro athletes usually live somewhere conducive to good training, not necessarily in their own country, so what influence say would GB have over Paula Radcliffe - she's based in France I believe ?
I think it may be different if you could find evidence of systematic doping - as some of the weightlifting teams have been doing, but for the more solitary athletes - I dont think you can ban a country just for that.0
