Alas poor bike

Phekdra

Hi all,

Upon taking my nice Focus Mares Cross to the LBS to investigate a loose bottom bracket I'm informed that the thread has been worn away and destroyed the frame. It was only six months old, too... and home insurance won't cover it as it's 'wear and tear'.

B*&^$cks... :evil:

Not quite new bike time, as I'm saving for a Wilier Mortirolo (or something equally shiny) next spring, but said LBS have offered to transfer all the bits and bobs to a new Aeron frame. I've never heard of them but they're made by Ridley (says so on the chainstay) and LBS person said he rides one to work and has done for four years (three and a half more than the Focus lasted!) so I'm going to give them the go ahead. It's £250 so it can't be spectacular, but I am a beginner after all so I can't imagine I'd notice much difference over my weighty cross frame. Anyway, I don't want hill climbing to get too easy! Has anyone got any opinions of them before I give them the go ahead?

Lessons learned - don't get too attached to your bike and don't buy a bike online.

Phekdra

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Did you buy it new from Wiggle? If so, surely they are obliged to replace the bike! As you have not mentioned Wiggle, I suspect it was a second-hand buy, in which case its pretty rotten luck... :?

alfablue

I would suggest that the loose bottom bracket may have been due to poor initial build, but I think the moral of the story is check out any loose things imnmediatley! It could have happened wherever the bike was bought. I would expect Wiggle to treat you well, assuming you have a contract with them.

Phekdra

alfablue wrote:

I would suggest that the loose bottom bracket may have been due to poor initial build, but I think the moral of the story is check out any loose things imnmediatley! It could have happened wherever the bike was bought. I would expect Wiggle to treat you well, assuming you have a contract with them.

That's what LBS thought, although I obviously can't prove it. I agree with that moral, especially since I felt a slight lateral movement in the cranks last week and didn't get round to taking it to LBS at the weekend. :oops: Well, I've emailed Wiggle to see what they have to say, but from their perspective there's no way of knowing whose fault it was or whether it was just an act of God. Fingers crossed but I've done rather a lot of customization since I bought the bike - new brakes, wheels, various odds and sods stripped off and replaced, so who knows whether they'd consider giving me my money back. Given a choice between weeks without the bike, losing my hard-won semi-fitness, or transplanting the working bits to a new frame, I might just say sod it and put it down to experience. Not buying online again, however nice Focus bikes are.

Phekdra

alfablue

Why not get a replacement frame from them and sell it on if you want to give up on it. I reckon you should have a reasonable expectation that the bottom bracket would not come loose if assembled properly. They should also recompense you in some way for having the bike rebuilt, assuming they don't do it themselves. I don't know if Wiggle will take a legalistic perspective (I may be naive but I expect them to treat you better than that), but under EU regulations the law now places the onus upon sellers to prove that the product was not faulty if less than 6 months old, in other words, the law assumes it was faulty at point of sale unless they prove otherwise, which would be very hard for them to do.

Phekdra

alfablue wrote:

I don't know if Wiggle will take a legalistic perspective (I may be naive but I expect them to treat you better than that), but under EU regulations the law now places the onus upon sellers to prove that the product was not faulty if less than 6 months old, in other words, the law assumes it was faulty at point of sale unless they prove otherwise, which would be very hard for them to do.

That sounds promising. I don't have much experience of Wiggle's customer support (although on the two occasions I've had to query them they were firstly tremendously helpful and secondly rather pompous and jobsworthy - presumably depending on who got the email) so I'll just have to see how it goes. Given the possibility of a dispute, however, I don't have much energy or enthusiasm for a fight - I just want a rideable bike! - so I might just have to let it go.

On the other hand big respect (can I really get away with saying that? 8) ) to Stonehenge Cycles, my LBS, who could have taken the opportunity to push a new frame on me but never once mentioned it until I brought the subject up, and encouraged me to see if I could get my money back from the seller first. I'll be buying most of my stuff from them in future... they have a very nice Pinarello in the window... :shock:

Phekdra

giant_man

I'm not sure I would be so blase about the situation after only six months? Act of God? Are they having a laugh?

I don't get it. The bottom line is it has failed and it shouldn't have failed. Someone has fukced up along the line somewhere. But I do know that ANY bike, regardless of what it is and how much it cost, should not fail after only six months.

alfablue

giant mancp wrote:

How on earth can you be so blase about the situation after only six months? Act of God? Are they having a laugh?

I don't get it. The bottom line is it has failed and it shouldn't have failed. Someone has fukced up along the line somewhere. But I do know that ANY bike, regardless of what it is and how much it cost, should not fail after only six months.

I think the OP was anticipating that Wiggle might argue that it was an "Act of God" not that they had made that argument (I think he is still awaiting return of his email). However I also don't get how someone can be content to ditch an expensive product after 6 months. Also, sellers have responsibilities and too often we allow them to get away with it. That said, I have always had excellent service from Wiggle and have a lot of respect for them and the way they treat customers - I suppose the real test comes when there is a major problem like this, but I would be optimistic of a favourable outcome.

As for battles, it shouldn't be much of a hassle;

1) you ask them nicely to fix the issue (probably as you have done already);
1b) you negotiate around whatever solution they offer until it is to your liking.

2) They are useless, offer no help, send them a recorded delivery letter entitled "Notice Prior to Action" giving them 7 days to resolve the issue to your satisfaction, or else you will use the small claims court and also claim expenses and costs.
2b) When ever I have done this I have ALWAYS had the situation resolved.

3) They're still ar*ey, refresh your mind with your consumer rights on Consumerdirect and then go to Moneyclaim online (the website of HM court service, you can do it all online and don't need to attend court these days).

4) sit back and wait for your compensation.

5) Buy new bike.

6) sell components from old bike on eBay

I very much doubt that you will get past 1b with Wiggle.

Bear in mind, if you worked on minimum wage (not saying you do) it would represent approximately 120 hours (three whole weeks) of work to earn the value of the bike you are giving up on, what is maybe 2 hours of effort in comparison???

huggy

BTW Phekdra, while you wait, go to Nash's Cycles on the Wilton Road - I got a Peugeot Road bike in there for £40, works perfectly, no problems, theyre happy to help fix anything wrong with it etc. Consider it in the transition between no bike and nice bike maybe...

Stewie Griffin

I have to agree with Alfablue, there is no way you should accept this. 6 Months is unreasonable for wear and tear on a BB, so would be claiming its an Act of God, if they were to do so. Its failure, whether or not its a failure of the part itself or the person who assembled the bike.

Very simplified Sales of Goods Act description;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/consumer/guides_to/law_goods.shtml

Speak to the Citizens Advice Bureau if you dont already know a Solicitor.

biondino

The key thing here may be whether any of your alterations to the bike have happened in or around the bottom bracket, because if so then they may argue (and may be correct?) that your actions caused the failure.

Otherwise, if your bike is under warranty (and I have a Focus but can't remember the warranty terms but it can't be less than a year, can it? I would expect a full replacement of any damaged parts.

salsarider79

Phekdra: have you seen the Pinarello frame in the window at the mo? I nearly fell off my bike when I saw that...
Anyway, is it possible to get the frame re-threaded? The shop I used to work in re-threaded a number of frames' BB's. It's not always possible or recommended, but if Wiggle won't replace the frame...may save you money for somethng else shiny and new.

alfablue

Stewie Griffin wrote:

Speak to the Citizens Advice Bureau if you dont already know a Solicitor.

It really is easy to do a small claim yourself, and all the info CAB will have is online at Consumerdirect. No need for solicitors (indeed the small claims route was designed to avoid such legal costs).

roger_merriman

6 months is way too short! Goods must be fit for purpose. They should give you a new bike/frame

GeorgeShaw

+1. Warranties only extend your rights and cannot reduce them, whatever the supplier might say. The SoG Act says that the goods must be "fit for use", which implies that they must last a certain minimum time. If I remember correctly, recently somebody successfully got a new washing machine (or something similar) when it broke down after 5 odd years. A standard one year warranty means nothing, nor does an extended warranty (more fool those who pay for them). White goods like a washing machine should last a decade if they are not abused. The same applies to a bike.

Phekdra

alfablue wrote:

I think the OP was anticipating that Wiggle might argue that it was an "Act of God" not that they had made that argument (I think he is still awaiting return of his email). However I also don't get how someone can be content to ditch an expensive product after 6 months.

Yes, 'Act of God' was just me wittering on. Don't get me wrong, I'm not content - I'm pretty P'd off, but likewise I'd kind of resigned myself to the inevitability of a new frame, having gone through all the stages of grief in the space of a couple of hours, before I even remembered that I might be under warantee. In any case, I received a reply from Wiggle stating that the frame was guaranteed for 3 years for manufacturing defects ONLY, not improper assembly, which LBS inferred was the likely cause. They also want the entire bike back for inspection. I'm going to reply to them explaining that I find this unacceptable and offering LBS testimony as to what they think the problem was. I'm not sending the whole bike back just so they can restate that it wasn't a manufacturing defect, and has been pointed out it's quite different to the bike I bought six months ago.

I'll just have to see what their reply to that is. I'm not going to threaten them - this whole process is exhausting enough already, but I will remind them that I've been a good customer who they'd do well keep on side.

Salsarider79 wrote:

Phekdra: have you seen the Pinarello frame in the window at the mo? I nearly fell off my bike when I saw that...

Yup - fortunately I was standing and not riding at the time! Plenty of drool-time is spent gawping at the Pinarello when I should be getting on with whatever I'm up to...

Phekdra

NervexProf

This link might prove helpful

http://tinyurl.com/5pf84y

Stewie Griffin

GeorgeShaw wrote:

+1. Warranties only extend your rights and cannot reduce them, whatever the supplier might say. The SoG Act says that the goods must be "fit for use", which implies that they must last a certain minimum time. If I remember correctly, recently somebody successfully got a new washing machine (or something similar) when it broke down after 5 odd years. A standard one year warranty means nothing, nor does an extended warranty (more fool those who pay for them). White goods like a washing machine should last a decade if they are not abused. The same applies to a bike.

I have worked for several motor dealerships as a Service Advisor and I used to sell them and get commission for doing so. Great when I got the pay packet, not so good when the customer came back in with a problem thinking that their several hundred pound warranty would cover it and it didnt because A) you missed your service on time or mileage Its wear and tear and not failure C) The small print "clearly" states that that part isnt covered. D) Its Wednesday Sir.

Washing Machines designed to last for a decade :shock: ? Er, no! Most furnished properties are not let with washing machines as they dont last that long, fridges and cookers yes.

Bit off post I know, the Point being dont buy extended warranties.

Phekdra

NervexProf wrote:

This link might prove helpful

http://tinyurl.com/5pf84y

Well, I didn't actually complain, but I did whinge and sulk a bit, and Wiggle seemed to take pity on me and offered to take the frame back and were very apologetic and understanding, making me feel like a right b@st@rd for raising my (virtual) voice. Yes, I'm utterly cr@p at complaining.

So, looks like I might get some of the money back, and FRANKENBIKE :shock: rises on Friday. Hopefully this will satisfy my new bike desire until next year...

In the mean time I've been riding my GF's hybrid to work. Good god, is all I can say...

Phekdra

giant_man

No No No Phekdra you have every right to complain. The goods were faulty. They have taken the frame back.

Yes.

Result!

Now don't feel guilty! And well done!!