Two more shady characters for the ToB

bipedal

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/Pet ... 64914.html

JC.152

Isn't a good thing to have big names riding the tour of Britain?

Titanium

JC: big names yes, not these little cheats. They doped, lied and cheated. Now this doesn't make them big names, it makes them little men. I have time for people who admit to being victims of a dirty system but these two guys have yet to say sorry to the fans and sponsors they ripped off.
If the Tour of Britain wants to grow, it should set standards, not sink into the gutter. Look how ASO picks its teams and compare it to the desperation at work here. There's no way LPR would make it into the Tour.

fast as fupp

titanium

im sensing anger here?

JC.152

It'll still be good to see Cavendish up against Petacchi though

Titanium

No anger, just disappointment, part with the race, part with the riders. Our sport needs to move on, to put guys like Petacchi and Di Luca in the past. You can't complain about Ricco if you don't disapprove of Di Luca using the same "doctor" who supplied Ricco. You can't complain about Ricco and his invisible molecules if you don't complain about Petacchi and his masking agents, he was using the same trick as Piepoli.

pinerellopaul

Allesandro Petacchi's suspension was for Inhaler abuse?
something i am told goes on in lay-bys up and down the country at TimeTrails not really up there with blood dopping or EPO

iainf72

pinerellopaul wrote:

Allesandro Petacchi's suspension was for Inhaler abuse?
something i am told goes on in lay-bys up and down the country at TimeTrails not really up there with blood dopping or EPO

Peep-Holy was done for "inhaler abuse" as you put it.

So was Petacchi.

It appears Peep-Holy may have been on much stronger gear. Also, if you look at the levels Petacchi had in him it wasn't like he'd taken an extra puff.

Can you say "masking"?

richa

ASO had double standards.

I think TOB should allow anyone eligible. Surely it is up to UCI to police & punish.

Jez mon

IIRC (big if), Petacchi was disqualified for an amount which was accepted as human error.

IMO, if Petacchi was using it as a masking agent, he should have changed his doping program.

DiLuca, OTOH, well he is a different kettle of fish, he has been using a bad doctor and for some that is a crime, but you can't prosecute riders for that.

Hopefully the ToB will be clean, but it's too much to ask for it to be 100% clean.

Titanium

The UCI

Maybe ASO has double standards, I could debate that. But give me double standards over no standards. We've let the UCI run the show for too long and the sport has gone no where but down.
These guys didn't have inhalers. If they did, they were using machines designed for asthmic elephants because they were busted with such big doses. Or maybe the inhaler just blew up in their face by accident. But it is far more likely they were injecting the salbutamol.
This has been an old trick. Same has been done by riders using corticosteroids. Riders pretend they have some normal illness, like asthma or saddle sores, and so they get the medical OK, called a TUE note, to take the medicine needed. Only they don't use the medicine like it is meant to be used, they inject salbutamol as a masking agent or use large doses for their lungs, just as they inject cortisone to help ease muscle soreness.

spen666

Titanium wrote:

.... You can't complain about Ricco if you don't disapprove of Di Luca using the same "doctor" who supplied Ricco. .....

Is it an offence to use thesame doctor as someone who commits offences?

Titanium

It's not a criminal matter, nor can a ride be sanctioned. Remember, these guys are not going to these doctors for antibiotics. Di Luca and Ricco have been caught using this guy for doping. Like I say, there's no point being annoyed by Ricco if you don't hold Di Luca to the same standards.
When the Cobra was caught, everyone got upset. But he's just the latest snake to be found out. Di Luca went before him and now he's back.
I will welcome him to racing and to the Tour of Britain if he makes good noises about abandoning his career of doping and promises to help young riders, not corrupt them. Like I say, he's persona non grata at ASO, others should hold high standards.

Doobz

Titanium wrote:

It's not a criminal matter, nor can a ride be sanctioned. Remember, these guys are not going to these doctors for antibiotics. Di Luca and Ricco have been caught using this guy for doping. Like I say, there's no point being annoyed by Ricco if you don't hold Di Luca to the same standards.
When the Cobra was caught, everyone got upset. But he's just the latest snake to be found out. Di Luca went before him and now he's back.
I will welcome him to racing and to the Tour of Britain if he makes good noises about abandoning his career of doping and promises to help young riders, not corrupt them. Like I say, he's persona non grata at ASO, others should hold high standards.

well said mate,

method

Jez mon wrote:

IIRC (big if), Petacchi was disqualified for an amount which was accepted as human error.

IMO, if Petacchi was using it as a masking agent, he should have changed his doping program.

DiLuca, OTOH, well he is a different kettle of fish, he has been using a bad doctor and for some that is a crime, but you can't prosecute riders for that.

Hopefully the ToB will be clean, but it's too much to ask for it to be 100% clean.

I saw something along the lines of the equivilant of 400 puffs from a normal inhaler for Petacchi.

edit.

Perhaps not 400 puffs, bu the finding was:

On June 21, the Barcelona lab issued its findings, saying the results "were not compatible with an inhaled therapeutic dose of salbutamol." The UCI informed the Italian cycling federation (FCI)

NJK

spen666 wrote:

Titanium wrote:

.... You can't complain about Ricco if you don't disapprove of Di Luca using the same "doctor" who supplied Ricco. .....

Is it an offence to use thesame doctor as someone who commits offences?

No but i presume his 3-month ban wasn't for a parking ticket. Di Luca is 100% a drug cheat. His doctor is good at supplying and masking, old school i'm afraid.

dave_1

Titanium wrote:

JC: big names yes, not these little cheats. They doped, lied and cheated. Now this doesn't make them big names, it makes them little men. I have time for people who admit to being victims of a dirty system but these two guys have yet to say sorry to the fans and sponsors they ripped off.
If the Tour of Britain wants to grow, it should set standards, not sink into the gutter. Look how ASO picks its teams and compare it to the desperation at work here. There's no way LPR would make it into the Tour.

bitter is titaniums middle name...see the USA stars and stripes pic ..he thinks he would have been there

grow up and accept it was not only drugs but your ability that limited you tt

method

Dave don't be such a dick

Kléber

ASO can have high or double standards but the Tour of Britain has to beg to get any half decent teams. It could turn away some dodgy teams but for the event to be taken seriously, it needs the top division teams, not the semi-amateur outfits like Ploughman-Craven.

But I would applaud attempts by some race organisers to block some riders. Di Luca and Ricco do appear to share the same doctor, people like this just don't belong in the sport. If they have every right to race, race organisers have the right to invite who they like too.

For a sport trying to escape its endless association to doping, the Tour of Britain is going to be a who's who of disgraced but still racing riders and that's not the most positive image we can project.

andyp

method wrote:

Dave don't be such a dick

+1.

Why don't you engage in coherent debate for once rather than resorting to school playground name calling?

jimmythecuckoo

Its not an ideal situation is it?

But having said that I am going to the Tour of Britain to watch racing and i am sure that the doping controls in place would catch anyone cheating.

So DDL et al beware.

iainf72

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

But having said that I am going to the Tour of Britain to watch racing and i am sure that the doping controls in place would catch anyone cheating.

So DDL et al beware.

I doubt DDL would bother using gear for the ToB.

And do they have magic doping controls which work or something?

mididoctors

if posters feel strongly about the participation of certain riders and teams at the ToB

one could email the ToB

at info@thetour.co.uk and express ones displeasure and/or point out they will not be offering volunteer services for the race.

oily sailor

iainf72 wrote:

I doubt DDL would bother using gear for the ToB.

And do they have magic doping controls which work or something?

You say that but there's a badly surfaced bit of road near Aylesbury that is harder than it looks. I'd be a customer at any CERA shop nearby, guaranteed.

neil_pcp

If Di Luca wins the ToB (something I am sad to say is a realistic possibility) I have to say I think the competition will have taken a step backwards after its progress over the last few years. Somehow I think the press will not be ignoring his past.

oily sailor

Somehow I think the press will be ignoring the event.

afx237vi

Neil Pcp wrote:

If Di Luca wins the ToB (something I am sad to say is a realistic possibility) I have to say I think the competition will have taken a step backwards after its progress over the last few years. Somehow I think the press will not be ignoring his past.

Do you think DDL even cares enough about the ToB to even attempt to win it? He'll probably do a Kloden, sign in for stage 1, collect his appearance fee and climb off at the first feeding station. The ToB is training for the Worlds.

GroupOfOne MkII

mididoctors wrote:

or point out they will not be offering volunteer services for the race.

I noticed in the Landis thread that you seem to be trying to encourage people to withdraw their services as a volunteer if they feel strongly.

That seems a big harsh, as without volunteers there wouldn't be a ToB, and regardless of your stance on who should and shouldn't be invited, I think we all want to actually see an annual ToB, and at least have the chance of seeing Cavendish et al competing on British roads.

Anyway pretty sure Di Luca will be looking ahead more to the world's, although is he in with a chance for the Italian team? I take it the Italian's don't do anything like saying riders can't represent their country following a doping ban...actually sorry don't be stupid, that's one of the more silly things I've ever thought!

jimmythecuckoo

iainf72 wrote:

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

But having said that I am going to the Tour of Britain to watch racing and i am sure that the doping controls in place would catch anyone cheating.

So DDL et al beware.

I doubt DDL would bother using gear for the ToB.

And do they have magic doping controls which work or something?

I would hope they are using the same ones as the TdF which proved effective.

Titanium

Dave_1 wrote:

bitter is titaniums middle name...see the USA stars and stripes pic ..he thinks he would have been there

grow up and accept it was not only drugs but your ability that limited you tt

Thanks. Maybe my posting comes across the wrong way but I am not bitter about the past. Hey, it was you who put personal comments calling me things, you got problems?
For today, I am not bitter but I get angry that some are not learning the lessons. We have cycling at different levels today, some teams are moving forward and others are going backwards.
I just don't like doping, it corrupts sport and people and it's no good. Maybe it's hard work trying to take a hardline on doping but that's just where I stand.
You can't come here and complain about Ricco one minute and then welcome Di Luca the next, these guys are the same.

NJK

afx237vi wrote:

Neil Pcp wrote:

If Di Luca wins the ToB (something I am sad to say is a realistic possibility) I have to say I think the competition will have taken a step backwards after its progress over the last few years. Somehow I think the press will not be ignoring his past.

Do you think DDL even cares enough about the ToB to even attempt to win it? He'll probably do a Kloden, sign in for stage 1, collect his appearance fee and climb off at the first feeding station. The ToB is training for the Worlds.

Everychance. Di Luca won't be on his programme for the TOB. Just training i presume. It is pretty obvious now that quite a few Italians have been to see Di Lucas old doctor and doing very similar practices to fuentes. Di Luca surely would have been on the same EPO as Ricco & Sella, maybe his Giro performance didn't stand out enough for the UCI. Probably warned him prior to the Giro. Anyway he has probably doped for that long that the effects would last for several years.